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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 10:15:33 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

oh Michael, that's just nonsense.  I don't think God zeros in on any one person.


Moses, Samson and particularly Job would all disagree with you on that.

That said, if he was even serious in the first place, he might still be wrong about it.


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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 10:18:56 AM   
bandit25


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Status: offline 		OK. I'll give you Moses and Job, but not Sampson.  Although, I wouldn't put michael in that category.  What I meant is that those who have a "poor me" outlook on life, need to go and see those who truly have something to complain about...domiguy notwithstanding.

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 10:26:43 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

And, Michael, I don't think you or anyone else is all that damned important in God's eyes.  He has a lot more to worry about than fucking up your life.  I'm not picking on you, but Jesus man...why not go and visit those who really do have it bad?  I'm serious.  Then, you'd find something to be thankful for.


Actually, I think he's important to Him/Her, and that S/He would deal primarily with the affairs of individuals, not societies. In the grand scheme of things, baring direct physical intervention via a miracle, the only thing S/He can do that doesn't defile His/Her own sacred gift of free will, is to try to help or hinder individuals by shaping the random events around us, i.e. those that are beyond human control. And it would appear S/He is reluctant to do that on a measurable scale at this point in time, without speculating on the reasons for that.

As far as visiting those who have it really bad, be aware that "bad" is relative to your frame of reference. A person starving to death is feeling no worse than a person going through a major depression, for instance, despite starving to death being objectively worse. This is because there is a limit to just how "bad" or "good" we can feel, just as our eyes can only percieve a limited contrast, despite having a wide dynamic range. We adapt our "window of emotion", and the scale of it, to prevailing circumstances.

Case in point, a Catholic priest who went through a major depression commented that he lost his faith after a while, that it essentially ate away his soul, and that after it passed, he has been praying every day since to die rather than go through that again. Also after being fully well, he commented that he would rather spend a thousand years having boiling water continously poured over his genitalia than a single year depressed, and that he has experienced the former once, sustaining third degree burns in the process, thus having the grounds for comparison.


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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 11:24:35 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

OK. I'll give you Moses and Job, but not Sampson.


Yeah, you're right, Sampson was inappropriate. But you cede that G*d does appear to zero in on particular persons sometimes, for what might to them appear as no reason at all? I mean, with Job, the justification pretty much comes down to "You're my plaything, I can do as I please with you, and it's my right", although a reason is given as well.

quote:

Although, I wouldn't put michael in that category.


Nor did he do so himself. He merely said he thought G*d hated him. Which S/He might, for some reason, I can buy that. I'm having a lot more difficulty buying that Michael has talked to him about it.

Besides, considering the exchange, I'd say he was joking.

quote:

What I meant is that those who have a "poor me" outlook on life, need to go and see those who truly have something to complain about...domiguy notwithstanding.


Nah. That rarely helps anything.

It is kind of like when parents tell their kids they should be happy that they have food on their table because other kids around the world are starving... the food doesn't taste any better for it.

Similarly, having been the first person on-site after a car ran down a teenage girl doesn't make me feel any better about stubbing my toe, even though I know that my physical pain, and the consequences for my health, are orders of magnitude different from what she went through.

Summary: little or no potential benefit, some risk of an adverse response. Just don't.


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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 11:29:05 AM   
bandit25


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Status: offline 		I don't know that I'd go that far, but then I don't know that I believe everything I read in the Bible either.  If you want to know what I mean by that, email me on the other side.  I don't want to put my beliefs out here for everyone to take a shot at.

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 11:35:55 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
with Job, the justification pretty much comes down to "You're my plaything, I can do as I please with you, and it's my right", although a reason is given as well.
Job was not a plaything. He was the weapon used by said God to defeat the Adversary. He put as much trust in Job as Job put in Him.

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 12:05:22 PM   
HarleyKitty69


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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 12:15:27 PM   
FukinTroll


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I see no replies regarding Trollism. I know I don't preach the hell fire and brimstone stuff and there is a reason. You would be amazed what you can live through. Now that said: You lil bitches best get in here and pay homage to me.

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 12:41:12 PM   
HydroMaster


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Status: offline 		And hydro begot ezikial who begot sampsonite who begot a goat who smote a turtle on the fifth day of the lord....I don't see any passages from the Great Book of Dom either....blasphemers!

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 12:41:44 PM   
JackAnory


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Status: offline 		God does not exist in most people’s world as most religions state that god is not of this world. I’m not religious so god may or may not exist here or elsewhere.

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 12:48:46 PM   
nephandi


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quote:

Job was not a plaything. He was the weapon used by said God to defeat the Adversary. He put as much trust in Job as Job put in Him.


Hi

Whit all due respect Job was as mutch a tool for somthing bigger as a bulldog in a dogfight. More or less God and the Devil made a bet that given human kind`s free will, even the strongest beliver would turn against God if motivated enough by loss and/or temptation. He was a plaything, a way for bigger Forces to bet and settel a diferance.


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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 12:51:30 PM   
HydroMaster


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Status: offline 		Wow, I have no clue what anyone is talking about....maybe I've missed too much church after all. Damn, that means mom was right.    The names sound familiar...that's about it.  

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 1:22:44 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi
Job was as mutch a tool for somthing bigger as a bulldog in a dogfight. More or less God and the Devil made a bet that given human kind`s free will, even the strongest believer would turn against God if motivated enough by loss and/or temptation. He was a plaything, a way for bigger Forces to bet and settle a differance.
Job demonstrated that humans can survive and defeat evil. Hence he is the champion of and an example to all ordinary people.

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 1:35:25 PM   
nephandi


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But then, what is evil? The God he loved that killed his family and tormented him to win a bet or the Devil that basicaly never hurt him. All this this show is that human kind can follow a leader, even a cruel leader on good faith the leader have a reason, not that they can defeat "evil".

i am sorry if this comes of as harsh, and i have respect for the God Jehova, i however dont belive a God that can do what he is described to have done, can be all good. He played whit a human life, just like the Greek, Egyptian and Roman Gods did, he is no better or worce in my eyes.

i wish you well.


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Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 2:30:54 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi
But then, what is evil? The God he loved that killed his family and tormented him to win a bet
The most that can be said, is that said God chose the lesser of two evils. This corruption was a small success for the Adversary, but Job's faith was a large victory for said God and for ordinary humans. As for the dead relatives of Job: show me a corpse. Job never saw one.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi
or the Devil that basically never hurt him.
Do not be deceived by the wolf that is dressed in sheep's clothes. I have seen pure, 'demonic' evil in the eyes and in the face and it HATES and desires to KILL all humans. Words are insufficient to describe this: the transformation of the eyes and face of an innocent blue-eyed child four years old into something utterly abhorrent and different and deadly and non-human. It lasted about a minute and I held this utterly evil creature by its chin and I froze where I sat as I looked into its non-human yellow eyes.

< Message edited by Rule -- 4/8/2007 2:31:49 PM >

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 9:50:20 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

In a purely objective frame of reference, there can be no doubt about the existence and involvement of an all powerful God, creator of the universe.


Richard Dawkins might disagree with you.

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 9:53:54 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Or, rather, the average church hates collars


Then again, priests wear collars themselves.

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/8/2007 9:58:20 PM   
Sinergy


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http://www.collarchat.com/m_715059/mpage_1/key_chickens/tm.htm#715530

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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/9/2007 2:48:46 AM   
nephandi


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quote:

Do not be deceived by the wolf that is dressed in sheep's clothes. I have seen pure, 'demonic' evil in the eyes and in the face and it HATES and desires to KILL all humans. Words are insufficient to describe this: the transformation of the eyes and face of an innocent blue-eyed child four years old into something utterly abhorrent and different and deadly and non-human. It lasted about a minute and I held this utterly evil creature by its chin and I froze where I sat as I looked into its non-human yellow eyes.


Hi

i to have seen a creature that clearly was malavont to me. During a flawed ritual together whit my Master long ago, i made contact whit the wrong thing. However i do not belive in ultimate good or ultimate evil, and i dont belive the Christian God is an sort of all father that is all good. If the Bible is true, there is so mutch bad there, done by God himself, pepole killed, tortured and hurt i can not acsept that God is good.

Take Moses as another exsample, he dedicate his life to the God Jehova, then after many decades of faitful service, he one time, one time! loose his temper and take some of the credit for the work, and as punishment God kills him before he can set foot in the promised land. And what aboute all the children killed by the Angel of Death in Egypt? Or David`s son killed becouse his father sinned, or for that matter punishing all women to horribel pain when giving birth for somthing one woman did. If a human dictator had done all theese things, taken so many lives, caused so mutch pain, the world would be in shook. Waht in this should make me belive the God Jehova is good?

The God i worship, witch include but are not limited to Jehova. my patron being the Demigoddess Circe are neither good nor evil and have never been presented as beeing all good or all evil.

i wish you well.

< Message edited by nephandi -- 4/9/2007 2:51:03 AM >

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Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


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RE: Does God exist in your world? - 4/9/2007 4:00:23 AM   
BBBTBW


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Status: offline 		Believing in GOD is called FAITH....believing without seeing.  It's really sad that some of those who don't believe in GOD, feel it necessary to call those of us "foolish, insane, stupid etc"  Not all of us judge you.  Why do you feel it appropriate to judge us?

< Message edited by BBBTBW -- 4/9/2007 4:24:52 AM >

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