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Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 7:11:55 AM   
curiouslyseeking


Posts: 924
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline 		A warm welcoming hello;
 
It is my belief that surrender/submission is a journey not a destination. 
 
This thread was inspired by the words of LA and Padriag from a previous thread:


quote:



ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
I also find that many submissives, especially those that identify or are owned as slaves, have trouble expressing their feelings even when allowed and encouraged to do so.


Which is always the fun and iroinc part because in this way they are trying to retain control and allowing their own personal feelings to decide their behavior- even as they claim to be doing it so as NOT to take control and submit to the other.
 
My question is…How have you found that you hang on to control whether consciously or realizing later subconsciously?
 

The question is also open to Dominants if they wish to share how they’ve witnessed a submissive hanging on to control.
 
Always,
~curious~

_____________________________

"The ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose to have no choice"

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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 7:35:27 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking

A warm welcoming hello;
 
It is my belief that surrender/submission is a journey not a destination. 
 
This thread was inspired by the words of LA and Padriag from a previous thread:


quote:



ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
I also find that many submissives, especially those that identify or are owned as slaves, have trouble expressing their feelings even when allowed and encouraged to do so.


Which is always the fun and iroinc part because in this way they are trying to retain control and allowing their own personal feelings to decide their behavior- even as they claim to be doing it so as NOT to take control and submit to the other.
 
My question is…How have you found that you hang on to control whether consciously or realizing later subconsciously?
 

The question is also open to Dominants if they wish to share how they’ve witnessed a submissive hanging on to control.
 
Always,
~curious~


while it is indeed a journey, it isn't a power struggle for everyone.  at least not for this slave.
 
most submissives and slaves this slave has come into contact with retain a certain amount of control through limits or demands made at the beginning of their relationship.  they tell the Dominant how and when they will submit, and it is up to the Dominant to agree to their terms or move along and find another.  this form of submission is espoused frequently here on the message boards.
 
it would not work for this slave, just as usurping authority and control from Master would not work for this slave, either.

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 7:43:51 AM   
curiouslyseeking


Posts: 924
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

most submissives and slaves this slave has come into contact with retain a certain amount of control through limits or demands made at the beginning of their relationship.  they tell the Dominant how and when they will submit, and it is up to the Dominant to agree to their terms or move along and find another.  this form of submission is espoused frequently here on the message boards.
 


Very good point!
 
As a slave, I was not thinking of this perspective.
 
My question would go beyond these verbalized limits at the beginning of a relationship.
 
Thank you.

< Message edited by curiouslyseeking -- 4/8/2007 7:45:23 AM >

_____________________________

"The ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose to have no choice"


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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 7:47:20 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		This really doesn't have anything to do with Ds or Ms and everything to do with human nature. We all cling to things and try to manipulate situations to get the outcome WE want, when, it's much healthier most times, to just accept, let things flow and enjoy.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 9:52:36 AM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline 		I'd be more than happy to surrender my all to the "right for me" dominant.  But I also know that it won't happen overnight.  It will take a lot of trust building and trusting my instincts. 

Sometimes hanging on to control, whether overtly or covertly is a good thing, as I found out in the relationship I just walked away from.  I considered it more self-preservation than anything, and a reminder that my instincts have never been wrong.  Now if I can just learn to listen to them right from the start.

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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 9:56:40 AM   
curiouslyseeking


Posts: 924
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

This really doesn't have anything to do with Ds or Ms and everything to do with human nature. We all cling to things and try to manipulate situations to get the outcome WE want, when, it's much healthier most times, to just accept, let things flow and enjoy.

Master Fire



Thank you, MasterFireMaam for your response..I agree it is human nature want to get what we want...however, I may have not made what I was seeking clear enough. 
 
So, please allow me to clarify for you and others that may have not understood what avenue I'm strolling.
 
This thread has everything to do with the journey of submission. 
 
With that in mind, I am seeking what things has submissives done consciously or later realizing subconsciously to hold on to control, even though they are wanting to surrender to their Dominant.
 
For example, Padriag and LA were referencing holding back expressing feelings was a form of retaining control, which may not seem obvious at first.
 
I would also say second-guessing your Dominant's command would be a form of holding on to control, not letting go.
 
I truly wasn't speaking of manipulation, not of a devious management for one's advantage, but more of trouble areas of submission.
 
Respectfully,
~curious~

< Message edited by curiouslyseeking -- 4/8/2007 9:58:17 AM >

_____________________________

"The ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose to have no choice"


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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 10:01:59 AM   
curiouslyseeking


Posts: 924
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

Sometimes hanging on to control, whether overtly or covertly is a good thing, as I found out in the relationship I just walked away from.  I considered it more self-preservation than anything, and a reminder that my instincts have never been wrong.  Now if I can just learn to listen to them right from the start.


Thank you, BRNaughtyAngel,

So, If I understand you correctly, you see it as a defense mechanism that hopefully dwindles in time?
 
Can you think of some things you realize now that you done in the relationship that held on to that control?
 
Always,
~curious~

_____________________________

"The ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose to have no choice"


(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 10:18:28 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Ok, an example. jason and I were chatting in IM. I asked him to do something he was either reluctant to do or didn't see that reasons behind why I wanted him to do it. When I pushed, he signed off. Thus, he tried to maintain control of the situation. All it did was make me laugh...and reconsider how I was approaching the goal. Getting him to do the particular thing was, in the end, NOT important...it was the underlying goal that was.

In the end, his inappropriate behavior is a reflection on him, his level of service and his level of surrender, not a reflection of me and my Mastery. I am happy to simply stand in my place and let him come to me. It's rather like taming a feral cat.

Master Fire

Edited to add "NOT". Changes the WHOLE meaning. LOL


< Message edited by MasterFireMaam -- 4/8/2007 10:20:35 AM >

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 10:48:49 AM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

Sometimes hanging on to control, whether overtly or covertly is a good thing, as I found out in the relationship I just walked away from.  I considered it more self-preservation than anything, and a reminder that my instincts have never been wrong.  Now if I can just learn to listen to them right from the start.


Thank you, BRNaughtyAngel,

So, If I understand you correctly, you see it as a defense mechanism that hopefully dwindles in time?
 
Can you think of some things you realize now that you done in the relationship that held on to that control?
 
Always,
~curious~


I'm not sure if defense mechanism is as good a descriptor as self preservation, but yes, that would be a part of it. 

I generally trust people until or unless they give me a reason not to trust them.  Think of it as a mental scoreboard that takes away points when things are done that violate or seriously question trust, and points are added when trust is reinforced.

I am very giving and forgiving, and tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, when in truth, he didn't deserve it.  As this was my first D/s relationship, I was learning as I went (and learned LOTS from the folks on this board!).  Let's just say that I didn't exactly listen to my instincts, but I didn't ignore them completely either. 

Without laying my personal life out for the collarme world, I will say that I held onto the control and authority covertly because my instincts were telling me it wasn't a good idea to relinquish them, and they were right.  I could give you a dozen reasons why I probably stayed in it for the 5 months, but it wouldn't matter.  Suffice it to say, I came out of it with a little sting, but firmly intact as a woman and a submissive, and ready to move on.  Had I not retained the control that I did, that wouldn't be the case.  So for me and my situation, it was for the best.  And I count it as a learning experience that has helped me grow as a person, a woman and as a submissive.

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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 11:32:28 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking
My question is…How have you found that you hang on to control whether consciously or realizing later subconsciously?


The big one for me was in not asking for what I wanted.  In not asking, I was already making the decision that I would not get it, therefore retaining the authority over whether the want was fulfilled or not. 

I am not referring to hinting about what I want either.  I am not allowed to hint or beat around the bush.  If I want something, I am required to ask directly.  He ignores hints.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 11:53:45 AM   
raevnn


Posts: 152
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

The big one for me was in not asking for what I wanted.  In not asking, I was already making the decision that I would not get it, therefore retaining the authority over whether the want was fulfilled or not...


Oh good lord, I do that. I do that a lot, even still... less than I used to, but still too much.

I also 'decide' that I might be bothering him by singing or talking or laughing... so I don't.
Finally, I still have a lovely habit of trying to punish myself if I think I've done something bad.

All of them are ways I'm trying to keep control of things.
And all of them are very disappointing to Daddy. They make it seem as though I don't trust/want him to have control of certain things. It makes him angry and/or sad. It causes him to not want to exert any power or control over me.
It's rather damaging to the wellbeing of our relationship... which is why I try very hard not to let it happen. As Kyra does, I try to ask for things directly so that the decision is left up to Daddy...

It's still a struggle for me, but i think I'm getting a little better at it.

Thank you for this thread - I'll be watching it for other people's thoughts :)

< Message edited by raevnn -- 4/8/2007 11:55:00 AM >

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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 11:58:32 AM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		I have no examples to supply, being the ever developing novice..All I can do is say that with any relationship or new experience one starts with baby steps,then walks,then runs, then flies!..The  realization is your own personal understanding of yourself as you continually develop, becoming aware ,both consciously and subconsciously of your motivations, reasonings,and perceptions...self reflection and actualization...difficult for all... D or/s....Tempting

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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 12:17:12 PM   
KeirasSecret


Posts: 415
Joined: 8/17/2006
From: central NH
Status: offline 		 
quote:

My question is…How have you found that you hang on to control whether consciously or realizing later subconsciously? 


There was the time he was trying to unhook the straps of my overalls; I could see he was having difficulties with it, so I reached up and started to “help” him…ummmmm…yea, we don’t do that anymore. :) I have also been convicted of anticipating his next move in sessions. Probably holding feelings back also, I seem to get caught somewhere between not wanting to be a whine baby, not knowing if I have a right to feel that way, and being worried that what I have to say will come out wrong.

I am sure there are more; even some I do at this time that I just haven’t figured out that’s what I’m doing. It is not always easy for me to know what is "being helpful to the cause", and what is "retaining control" until I've been given a different perspective.

Be well,


_____________________________

It apears to me, the practice of "an eye for an eye" has finally taken it's toll; the majority are now walking around blind.

Bitching; whining in a louder voice.

If the truth hurts, change it!

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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 1:02:30 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		It was only when I completely let go that I felt real internal peace and rid myself of my inner demons which would pay an unpleasant visit from time to time.  It was an ah-ha moment I had while in a phone conversation with a friend.  I was called on the carpet about my own beliefs of what a slave is, and realized I was not living up to my own standard and therefore not being true to myself.  I realized if I was to be true to myself I had to let go of this last fundamental issue that had been eating at me, and accept my Master's decision about it

Once I did that, I kid you not, my slavery to him turned into the biggest joy of my life.  The struggle was gone.  The angst disappeared and the demons never came back.  Now we are on a much different level than we previously were.  He recognizes my slavery for what it truly is to him now, and the result is a deeper connection between both of us. 

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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 1:12:24 PM   
unsung


Posts: 183
Joined: 12/23/2006
Status: offline 		I can only speak from my one real experience: holding control had nothing to do with maintaining what may have been considered a power struggle between me and the other, holding control had much more to do with maintaining what I believe and the standards I had/have placed on living my life without guilt and lack of intregity.  It was about holding onto my core values and not having those disturbed by the one I was with.  Of course there is alot to be said about being with someone that has very similiar values as your own, it certainly does allow individuals grow together from where they presently exist without having to reinvent the wheel so to speak.

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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 1:25:27 PM   
lilsquaw


Posts: 54
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline 		girls has found that she maintains control of herself for fear of Master not reaching Heis ultimate goals.  In most instances, girl finds out that she has actually inhibited Him from enjoying Himself.  That has been one of my biggest lessons.  Master has taught this girl that not only is it ok to give over all of her control, but that in only total submission can she give Him what He is truly His by rights.

However, it is still hard for this girl to let things that bother her out of her control because she does not want Him to be bothered by menial things. (this is this girl's major flaw) 

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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 1:42:45 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		The big one for me was in not asking for what I wanted.  In not asking, I was already making the decision that I would not get it, therefore retaining the authority over whether the want was fulfilled or not. 
That's a huge one for me too. I still have a lot of difficulty with this but know i need to address it, more for my sanity than his.
I also have difficulty talking about my feelings about situations with him. I like to take it away with me, think about it and come back to him later when i have analysed it all. I know this annoys him a little because he wants my gut feelings, thoughts and emotions just as much as he want me to take the situation away with me, analyse and come back.
I have times where i don't / won't / can't reign in my cheek. When analysing this i realised its a form of keeping  control over my own behaviour and my identity.

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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 2:08:31 PM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Every time I think I've let go of some of the controls of my life, he introduces me to another facet and I find I have to conduct the journey all over again to let go of another area of control I didn't think I had.

It's what makes the process interesting. It's what keeps me growing. And ultimately, it's what keeps him interested.

We're in the middle of that right now. I fought it - hard. I didn't realize until today just how hard I was trying to maintain some semblence of control over my life. He just grins a lot and waits for me to realize what I'm doing.

juliet

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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 2:44:11 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		I should hope we all take a while to hand it all over. If it was so easy as shoving a grocery bag at him and saying here it is, then what would it be worth? I grow more open with time and I doubt I will ever be an open book that he's read a dozen times and is bored with. The opening up, layer by layer, is as worthwhile a goal as getting to the inside of the onion. More perhaps because in the opening is the struggle and that shows how much work we are willing to do for the ones we love.

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RE: Hanging On~Not Letting Go - 4/8/2007 3:07:48 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		This is a great point, Celeste, plus for some people (like myself), unpeeling my own layers was such a process, if they had all been ripped off at once it would have been too much to handle at the time.

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