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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 8:55:56 AM   
ANonnyMoose


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Come on people! I've cried a lot over my skin problem and it's NOT something that needs therapy. You just want to have nice skin so people will view you like they do everyone else. Why is everyone giving this girl and her aunt such a hard time? This procedure will make her feel happy. 

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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 8:58:14 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ANonnyMoose

Come on people! I've cried a lot over my skin problem and it's NOT something that needs therapy. You just want to have nice skin so people will view you like they do everyone else. Why is everyone giving this girl and her aunt such a hard time? This procedure will make her feel happy. 


Are you a mother? I only ask that because the real issue has nothing to do with the girl's skin condition at all.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 9:02:24 AM   
MissSCD


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A skin condition is easily fixed if you go to the skin doctor.  It is best to get this fixed at a young age because you can keep up with it.
I advice skin care for people rather than make up any day. 
I go to a skin doctor, and he knows exactly what to do and give you to clear it up.

Regards, MissSCD

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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 9:05:11 AM   
CalicoKaly


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I think that yo were within your rights to offer it.  Especially if no one has made a point of saying anything about it and she still feels bad about it.  My family members actually insult me over my acne at times.  Currently I am lucky that I've had no scarring as far as I or anyone else, can tell, so I've been lucky.  I know that if I had scarring I'd want to get something done.  Whether laser like you offered her, or something else.  You say you've looked into it, and I beleive you there, so I feel as long as you've looked into it just take her to a consultation first, let her know the different options and let her decide which one would be best for her.  Maybe you should have spoken to her mother first, but hindsight is 100%

Also to LaTigresse, if Jennifer is anything like myself or a lot of my friends, she would never have asked!  I know both of my aunts have enough money for something like that, but I would never ask them to pay for it.  So many of us work so hard for minimum wage that we learn the value of money and would never ask for enough for something as expensive as this.  Infact I beleive that one of my aunts(the one that makes more money actually) would be offended if I asked for any money from her.  The other one would try and help me figure out how to budget my money better and just loan me the money with me paying her back every payday.  With myself and basically everyone I know well, we wouldn't ask because it's just exspensive and we don't want to impose for something.  If it was something like I had no food(as I am now living with my Misstress and we don't have extra money) then they'd have no problem buying me food, but that also, if you buy properly, can be under $100.  As Susan said, if your really about saving money, look at your grocery bill.  I also wouldn't have a problem asking for some food from them.

To those of you who say that confidence cannot be given by this, jsut fake confidence, I have one question.  Have you ever needed glasses or had severe acne?  I have had both.  The acne was genetic, it wasn't due to me eating a bunch of junk food, or not keeping clean, it was genetic.  I had no control over it.  I know that when I got my contacts and when my friend taught me how to put foundation on to lessen it that I got a huge confidence boost.  Because I was no longer intimidated by the pretty girls at school anymore.  I no longer had a problem standing up for myself and letting people see me.  It's not just children who make fun of acne, adults do too, and their insults are better thought out and so hurt more.  By the time your 15 the insults are very strong, and so you want to disappear into the wall.  It might not even have been her family that made her feel self consious about it, but the other people at school.  I'm actually in a similair situation as this girl.  I have my small pack of guys that follow me around when they can find me.  Although, most of those guys are fairly shallow and like my figure, I'm a curvy girl and that's why they follow me.  If she's curvy then that may be why they follow her around rather then because they like her personality.  I hate to say it like that and certaintly it's not true with all guys, but with many of the ones that follow me around it is.  Until I shoot them down and tell them to back off before I hurt them   and yes I've done that to the ones who only wanted sex.  The others are awsome guys, and I like to beleive that most guys are decent like that.

Anyways I'm not trying to attack anyone here.  I'm not trying to offend, just saying how it is from my POV.
~Calico Kaly

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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 9:31:10 AM   
LaTigresse


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Kaly, I believe you misunderstood my comment. I did not mean that the girl should specifically ask for the procedure prior to it being offered. I was refering to her asking for help. As a person that has asked for help on many different things I never expect anyone to actually PAY for something, only to give advise or assistance. Big difference. I was questioning wether or not the girl had asked for ANY help or if there were just too many assumptions made.

In addition, I also had terrible acne from the time of puberty on into my 30's so yes, I do know what it is like.


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 4/9/2007 9:32:38 AM >


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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 9:46:37 AM   
FirmhandKY


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Susan,

Do it, and let all the "what if's" and "whys" go.  Who cares?

I agree that it's the right thing to do.  It doesn't matter what the mother thinks.  Regardless of the people who want you to some how go back and involve the mother, or question your motives the facts are:

1.  You made the offer.

2. You niece has accepted.

3.  She is of legal age to vote, get married, go to war, make medical decisions, etc.

4.  The offer was made out of the best of motives (screw what some may be saying otherwise - it's not their niece, or their life).

Sometimes in life, you have to make your choices, regardless of what others may think.  It's your life.  It's your niece's life.

I think you are doing the right thing, for the right motives.  Sure, talk to her mother and try to patch things over, but the problem she is having is her problem.

FirmKY


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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 11:01:58 AM   
Termyn8or


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I see that my reply has instigated a bit of response, possibly even consternation.

First of all I said the offer "may have been inappropriate".

Second of all nobody knows where I am coming from, so here it is:

I wear glasses and have had acne for a long time. Even at 46 I still get some. With my own views about medicine, I would not allow anyone in the medical community to touch me, but that is not the point.

When I got my first pair of glasses I was horrified. I didn't wear them most of the time. The self-consiousness was too much. I also had acne.

What it took for me was maturity. It was a big step in my mental and intellectual development to learn to hold my head high, even with the zits and those funky glasses. So yes, I have been through it.

The girl with ½ her face shot off is in bad shape, and I mean that. It is not her looks. She cannot eat normally or talk. Remember this happened because she met a sociopath who raped her and was out on bond. I doubt she even wants to look good about now. She may even wish she were ugly, so this is less likely to happen again.

As far as society goes, we all know how it is. Things are not right. If I had a daughter who was really good looking and had perfect skin, I would suggest she get some of those fake zits and wear them all over her face. When some people look at you they see your face and that is it. Nice and trim ? Wear a fat suit, find out who REALLY likes you. Then surprise surprise, look now, after the 'real' you is revealed.

I don't know what else to say. Looks do not matter. I admit I would have a hard time getting attracted to someone who is ugly, that is innate and there's not a thing I can do about it, but I would try.

I remember a saying "How do you expect to get by, on your looks ?". Well alot of people apparently do. Every day on TV or in the movies. Many other venues as well. Is this right ? Is this how it should be ?

T

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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 11:26:06 AM   
seeksfemslave


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As a mere male it seems obvious to me that this particular sibling relationship "problem" has arisen as a continuation of difficulties that occured between you and your sister when you were children. That is what I was hinting at and you have admitted as much in one of your posts.
Saying that doesnt help much other than to make you reflect a little on your sister's reaction, possibly see a pattern here over the years ?

Intrusive speculation I know, but you did reveal the problem in open post.

In any event I hope your niece gets thru' this , but as has been suggested, surgery, at 20 ?  Risky to say the least.!

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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 11:27:14 AM   
popeye1250


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At 20 I was in the U.S. Navy and overseas.
She's old enough to decide what she wants to do with her life.
Firmhand is right with his points.
I wouldn't worry too much about your sister's reaction.
Tell your Niece to have it done if she wants it.
Gee, Susan, I wish I had a nice Aunt or Uncle at 20.
Mine were all a pack of bastards.
Your Niece is lucky to have a caring Aunt like you!
I once went out with a woman who had a pock marked face from acney but it didn't matter to me. I thought she was very sexy and pretty and that the scars gave her "character."
Your sister will get over it I'm sure.
If it makes you and your niece feel better then what are you waiting for?

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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 11:44:25 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

...As far as society goes, we all know how it is. Things are not right. If I had a daughter who was really good looking and had perfect skin, I would suggest she get some of those fake zits and wear them all over her face. When some people look at you they see your face and that is it. Nice and trim ? Wear a fat suit, find out who REALLY likes you. Then surprise surprise, look now, after the 'real' you is revealed...


this slave would agree wholeheartedly with what Termyn8or has stated above and would like to add, NO-ONE needs to change their looks cosmetically to be accepted by society--society needs to change their insistance that Barbie or Miss America or name-your-favorite-Disney-princess is the epitome of "beauty".
 
To Susan:
 
it might indeed be the start of exchanging one issue with looks for another.  Body Dysmoprhic Disorder is characterized by an OVER-EMPHASIS on the "perfect", highly unattainable "look" considered desirable by our society.  this slave is intimately familiar with this to the point that, since UMhood, looking in the mirror at her reflection is like looking in the distorted mirror of the fun house.  the analyst has a field day when they hear this slave's "looks" were over-emphaiszed by her mother to an extreme.  this slave has learned to deal with it by actively promoting an UNDER emphasis on the "look".
 
how?
 
this slave doesn't tan, dye, perm, lipo, tuck, diet, inject, implant, dermabrase, etc.
 
the only make-up this slave wears goes along with a specific "Costume" and limited time "Role", which coincides with a specific event--i.e., Halloween Witch, Marie Antoinette, Vanilla Wife, etc.
 
Many a woman who is considered "beautiful" by some ridiculous societal standard TIRES of the constant shallow overemphasis on her looks by others, horndog attention from damn near anyone heterosexually male and the presumption that somehow because others think she is beautiful, her self-image is just a bowl of cherries---sans pits.

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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 1:17:31 PM   
domiguy


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Get her the surgery if she wants it....Never mind these people who spew the fact that beauty is only skin deep crap....

I once dated a woman who didn't have the best of complections, acne scars and such, and she was a tad bit over weight as well...So after receiving a few blowjobs, I had to tell her that I no longer wanted to spend any further time in her company...She asked, "Why is it because of my zits and the fact that I'm a little heavy?"...I paused and truthfully answered, "yes, those are the reasons."  Then she wiped off her face to reveal that she had applied the scarring and the zits, and that underneath "the makeup" she was absoloutely stunning; She then went into the ladies washroom and came out "slender" with a fat suit draped over her right arm!!! I was astonished she was gorgeous!!!....I was at a loss for words.  She walked over and dropped the fat suit at my feet and said, "Now would you like to continue seeing me?"....I thought for a moment and responded back, "No, I forgot to mention that you are also kind of a cunt."

I left the restaurant and never saw her again.

Susan, I hope this story helps in enabling you to reach the right decision.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 4/9/2007 1:18:04 PM >


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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 2:27:15 PM   
FirmhandKY


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Funny story, domi.  Good analogy.

I'd say ... by the time a women is 20, and had to live with acne for most of her life, she is very well aware that "looks aren't everything".

But they can certainly remove a lot of anxiety and make her life easier.

Looks don't matter?  What universe are you guys living in?

What you mean is that in a perfect world, everyone would be taken simply on their "personality".  Great.  I agree.  I also had acne when younger, and it taught me to look very closely at people and how "less than perfect people" are treated, and helped me understand people much better.

That's a plus.  Good lessons, and I am glad I learned them.  I learned that some "beautiful people" are shallow harlots.  Some aren't.

It's kinda like the old saw about being rich won't make you happy.  It just makes it a hell of a lot easier.

Do it for her, and quit stewing and wondering what others think.  There is simply no way in hell everyone will ever be happy about any decision.  They can run their lives however they wish.  You run yours how you wish.

FirmKY

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 4/9/2007 2:28:45 PM >


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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 2:48:03 PM   
LaTigresse


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It is interesting in following this thread how different the opinions are based upon gender, with only a few exceptions.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 3:29:31 PM   
SusanofO


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Jennifer's told me she's cried a lot about it, and I am around her enough, to watch and see people's reactions to her when they first meet her, for example, and see her skin condition, and she is very ashamed and self-consious about it, and it really breaks my heart.

I didn't maybe make that clear because I was upset when I first posted about it. I spent all yesterday afternoon, putting up w/ my sister's icy stares at me. My oops. Sorry. I was very upset when I first posted this topic, and could have been more clear. Thanks for listening anyway, and for the comments.

I think some are picturing just someone with a few minor "zits" - but she is one of those people whose face is purple with acne, and who has those deep, deep scars (called "ice pick" scars). They don't go away on their own. I should know - I had them too, at one time. It can make you feel like a freak in a circus, somewhere.

People don't mean to be rude or stare at you, but they do. She isn't "unable to deal" My question is - why should she even have to try? - when  surgery is available, safe, and I am willing to help? It's a no-brainer, as far as I can see. I don't understand my sister's reaction - at all. Having to consider it some kind of "character builder" to put up with for eons, just because she "should" is insane, IMO - Jenny is in a lot of emotional pain over this. I can tell. But I appreciate any who commented (I really do). I appreciated the ear. I was pissed at my sister, when  she reacted that way.

I've had a few hours to calm down. Maybe I will talk to my sister about this next week, after she has calmed down (hopefully).

In no way do I consider this a super-ficial cosmetic "fix". I think it is exactly what plastic surgeons and dermatologists are for, IMO. Sorry, I should have said that before - I am just way upset over this. And very surprised, too, because this is totally unlike my sister to react this way. I think she must be half off her rocker over worry about her husband, or something. But he is recovering (or  maybe there is something she isn't telling me? Possibly). I hope that's all it is (like that's not enough, but still...)

I suppose some people do treat their skin like crap, never ever wash their face, etc.- but for the most part, acne  in most cases, from  what I've read, isn't the fault of the person who gets it. It is mostly hereditary, and a results of hormone imbalance.

My derm told me my body was producing way too much "androgen" (a hormone), and that was why I had it . I took Accu-tane (that controversial acne drug). It worked, but I still had deep scars leftover.  Eventually, my hormonal problem susbsided (in my very late twenties). Until then, I felt bad about myself about half the time - even though I had friends, got good grades, etc, etc. 

I know this is going to maybe sound sexist, and it's not meant to be - it's really not - but I do think this actually might be a bigger "deal" for a girl to experience - because of the focus on female appearance (although frankly, my heart goes out to anyone who has to deal with it).

Nobody has raised Jennifer to be overly concerned w/her looks - she is quite the tom-boy, wears no make-up, rarely has worn it, etc.  All she needs to do to see what this looks like, is go look in the mirror, which I am sure she does every day, out of necessity, when brushing her teeth, for instance. 

He and she (my little sister and her hubby) were both at Easter dinner yesterday at my middle sister's house, and she shot me icy glances all afternoon. My niece was there, too - but nobody brought this topic up at all, because there were so many other people there, and this isn't exactly a group conversation topic, and the whole afternoon was somewhat chaotic, as far as the atmosphere. So, Jennifer still has no idea what her mom said to me.

Anyway, I know I have probably made a mountain out of a mole-hill here, but I really needed to get it, I was so mad about this. Thanks for all of the good advice, and for listening, people. It is very much appreciated. A lot.

Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/9/2007 4:27:12 PM >


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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 3:40:59 PM   
wfsubseeking1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

1) Perhaps your sister's financial situation is not as rosy as she lets on.

2) Perhaps she felt it was something that she as her mother should address with her daughter, but she cannot afford it.

3) Perhaps she felt edged out by you in her daughter's life

4) Perhaps your neice and your sister are not getting along.

There are so many different variables that it boggles really Susan. Most of the time I would say in situations that it does not matter, and that your sister needs to "get over it in her own time", but you see, I am in the position of your sister. I made my sister my son's godmother, she is economically better off than me. She and her hubby spoiled my son rotten, and she often did not consult me. I never made a deal out of it... but I might if they offered him surgery.

Now your neice is an adult, and you promised her the surgery, and I would follow through on that promise no matter what... but I would also write a letter apologizing to your sister about her hurt feelings, even though she may not even know why this is bothering her so deeply (things that get to us we are not often aware of the real reason as to why). Yes, I think you should have brought it up to her instead of your neice in the first place... not because you "owe" it to her, but because you love her, she is your sister. Blood is thicker than water. Bad feelings between family are so unnecessary. I do not think you are "wrong" Susan, I just think that the relationship with a sibling is more important than being "right". I think you are a very generous kind aunt... like my sister is.




i read that and could just see my sister's going ballistic on me if i ever had offered to do something like that for any of their children.  i know they would have been highly offended in so many ways and taken it personally.

seeking

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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 3:47:17 PM   
SusanofO


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Yeah it could  be any of those things. I did think, though, that whatever her feelings, she could have been a wee bit more polite in her reaction. I mean, bottom-line: I was trying to be nice and help. My sister doesn't have to be a genius to see that.

- Susan

_____________________________

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That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 3:53:48 PM   
wfsubseeking1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Yeah it could  be any of those things. I did think, though, that whatever her feelings, she could have been a wee bit more polite in her reaction. I mean, bottom-line: I was trying to be nice and help. My sister doesn't have to be a genius to see that.

- Susan


i am sure you meant well. Both of my sister's have a tendancy to take things personally even though it might not be the intent.  They would feel it was some poor reflection on themselves regardless of your motives.  i would talk to your sister.  Tell her you are sorry if you overstepped your boundaries.  Hell make up a story how one of your friends had similar problems and how damaging it was to their self esteem and you were only trying to help because you were concerned..  Just don't make it look like she is unaware of her daughters needs.

seeking

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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 4:11:08 PM   
SusanofO


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Thanks for the comment.

It really hepled me to be able to bounce this off other people. I appreciated the ear.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/9/2007 4:42:16 PM >


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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 4:21:14 PM   
myobedience


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Susan,
I am sorry your sister gave you this response.  Yes, I also have BTDT with my sister on several occasions.  My sister thinks I make suggestions because I want to "interfer" with her parenting.  Hardly the truth, just a concerned aunt and an impartial on looker.
 
About my nephew who has/had really horrible acne  ~~  I have been on proactiv now for..well maybe 10 years.  I suggested he use it.  My sister was bent all out of shape because I still have nasty outbreaks of cyctic acne at my age.
He is so kind, so sweet and terribly handsome...I just thought he might be less antisocial and smile alot more, with some relief.  At his age of 23, I had 3 or 4 derm abrasions, steriods, antibiotics, creams and god knows what else.  ACCUTANE, while still experimental, was my saviour.  Zach has not tried accutance because of insurance.
 
I just let the whole issue drop.  I had even offered a 3 month supply from the club membership.  Last summer, Zach walked up to me, hugged me tight and said "Thank you Auntie Lo."  Not only could he surprise me with a healing face but he and his girl were engaged. He had remembered my "clash" with his mom and tried it anyway. I still give Zach my 3 month supply if I have extra's. 
 
My sisters have flawless skin, I still suffer.  I swear by proactiv and accutane.  But then all acne's are NOT the same.  That is the key point. Derm abrasions did not work for everyone.
So I suggest you let the subject lay a bit and then approach your sister another way, reassuring your niece, you will help, when the time is right.  


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RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? - 4/9/2007 4:32:24 PM   
SusanofO


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I really appreciate your comments. Cystic acne really sucks. If people think it's "no big deal", all they have to do to empathize more, IMO, is think about how they sometimes regard people who have it, and then just imagine what it must feel like to actually be the person who has it.

I know people don't mean to be rude, but I seem to remember getting a lot of long, un-necessary stares, even little kids pointing, etc. It was really hard to take. I was not imagining it, either.

Derma-Brasion (which has been replaced, for the most part now, by laser surgery as the "fix" for acne scars) was something I considered a life-saver for me. But at the time, I never could have afforded it on my own, and was very grateful my parents offered to help (we went "half-and-half", on the expense). 

But I have no kids, and Jennifer could use the help, she can't afford it, and my sister appears not to really think it's a "big deal". I beg to differ, but maybe she'd have to have had this problem herself, to know how much of a freak it can make you feel like. The surgery made me feel like a new person. ikt was definitely worth the expense (to me). 

Pro-Activ is great stuff (my niece is using it, btw). And paying for it herself, I might add (I really don't get my sister's attitude, in general. I see this as a medical, not just a cosmetic, issue, I guess). 

Anyway, I think it was nice of you to want to help your nephew. Why people (esp. relatives) would think you have an "ulterior motive" is beyond me. Why can't someone just want to help? Anyway....thanks for the ear. I'll give ya'll an update later, if this gets resolved anytime soon. 

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/9/2007 5:15:55 PM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to myobedience)
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