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RE: ManHandled.... - 4/15/2007 8:18:52 PM   
Devilslilsister


Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

As broad and generalizing your disgust is it is also very accepting. You have created a standard expectation and find acceptance with that statement. I am sure you meant it to be scathing, but all you are really doing is lowering the bar and enabling that behavior.


No Troll, you misread it.  It wasnt ment to scathing at all.  It was a general statement.  Just because behavior like that doesnt SUPRISE me.. doesnt mean i accept it.  Maybe acceptance that - men can be like that?  Sure.  Women can too.  Do i expect men to be wonderful awesome human beings?  Newp, i dont expect that of any human being.  

i was merely stating that it doesnt suprise me.......  i'm infact suprised that it suprises you all.  Really.  Abit more taken back by how naive you all are.  It happens, all over the world all the time.  Sometimes its ALOT worse then what was described here.  Ever heard of roofies?  Date rape?  People disappearing for months and their bodies turning up later?


The lady in question could count her self lucky............ ya know its a big evil world out there.  Just chalk it up to the man's an ass and dont be around him anymore.  Its simple. 

< Message edited by Devilslilsister -- 4/15/2007 8:23:28 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: ManHandled.... - 4/15/2007 10:23:30 PM   
TigerNINTails


Posts: 178
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline 		Naahh.... The world isn't as bad as you make it sound...

It's worse.

In all seriousness, it doesn't surprise me either. Overall. But it's not all men. Simply some. Some women too. Does it disgust me? As a man, of course... As one that generally loves women, yes, it disgusts me when women act that way too...

But whether it surprises you or not, or whether you hold someone up to expectations of any sort or not, the simple fact is that people like that will never get it.

They may as well be removed from the genepool. In so far as other people that understand respectful courtesy, manners, befitting attitudes, etc...

Let the world fill with these people. These are those with true strength, be they Top, bottom, Master/Mistress, slave, Dom/me, submissive... Doesn't matter. Male, female, whatever.

The idea that it doesn't surprise you or I that men would act in this manner is truly not a good thing. This lack of surprise simply enables it to get worse, as the lack of surprise also tends to breed apathy.

I'd even say that to have apathy of it is even worse. With apathy is acceptance of the fact, and with acceptance, there is little movement to be rid of the problem. No seeking of a solution.

Peace.



(in reply to Devilslilsister)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Man Handled.... - 4/16/2007 10:39:27 AM   
CagedTiger


Posts: 3
Joined: 3/9/2004
Status: offline 		i   say  in  a   cage   half   the   time.   and   in   bondage   and   get   whip   3  times  a  day.   and   in   a   cb3000    that   not   comeing   off    for   life.   i   been   a   slave   for   3yrs   1  of  it   is   in   a   cage.   my   mistress   says   all   man   say   in  cage             slave  john

(in reply to LadyTantalize)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Man Handled.... - 4/16/2007 10:51:53 AM   
Stranger1


Posts: 219
Joined: 4/13/2007
Status: offline 		Sadly, many think it is expected as a form of showing thier mastery.

And I have found that many subs actually get dissapointed if a caveman doesn't show up for the first date-perhaps they were afraid of getting the brush off. Seriously-I have behaved like a gentleman on more than one first date-only to have a girl later tell me she wished I had played that routine-right off-rather than waiting.

It gets rather confusing-not being the ultimate mind and body reader-but I use the cool aproach as the default anyhow-just safer for all involved.

(in reply to MDJour)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: ManHandled.... - 4/16/2007 12:36:02 PM   
Devilslilsister


Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I'd even say that to have apathy of it is even worse. With apathy is acceptance of the fact, and with acceptance, there is little movement to be rid of the problem. No seeking of a solution.


LOL and what solution do you suggest?  Shall we create some secret underground project locating all these people and then hang them out to dry?  Create a list and pubically out them?  Castrate them?  Shall the good samaritans of society walk around with baseball bats and wack anyone with inappropriate behavior?  ::giggles:: that might be fun!

What solution is there?  What movement can the rest of us create to solve the problem?  Or is it just an individual knowledge that we should all obtain so we can protect ourselves better? 

There really isnt much one can do about it when it comes to society.  All one can do is learn, accept, and protect.  If we sit here and say "oh no this doesnt happen - its not wide scale - its such an abnormal thing" then how are you to keep any eye out so it doesnt happen again? 

Its like frogs.  If i walk out of my house and inadvertenly step on a frog.. and think its uncommon.. i'm not going to keep my eyes on the ground when i walk.  Yet, if i walk out of my house and step on a frog and realise that there are TONS of frogs out there........ i'm going to keep a close eye on the ground so i dont step on anymore. 


_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

(in reply to TigerNINTails)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: ManHandled.... - 4/17/2007 3:25:34 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline
quote:

Men are NOT like dogs... dogs have loyalty - Wanda Sykes


Ever see this before DLS?

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RE: ManHandled.... - 4/18/2007 5:37:15 AM   
TigerNINTails


Posts: 178
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline 		I don't know DLS...

Try, not ignoring the elephant in the living room for a start. Don't allow the shitty behaviour to occur in your presence perhaps.

Tell people when they're out of line... Other than that, I don't know, I'm not here to be the solution, but I'll tell you, if I'm not part of it, I'm part of the problem.

What would you rather be? Answer that, and you'll have the answer to a million dollar question.


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Consistent Discipline Renders Punishment Unnecessary

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RE: Man Handled.... - 4/18/2007 6:07:12 AM   
Mustardseed


Posts: 291
Joined: 5/27/2006
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KinkMasterDave

PREVIOUSLY POSTED IN A REPLY:
From a male Dom point of view, he overstepped his bounds.
Again from a male dom prospective, "no" has multiple meanings to many of us. No to me can mean:
1) No
2)im moving to fast.( usually in play)
3)Try a different approach or route. ( usually with new experiences)
4) YES!
5) i really want you to but want to "pretend" to resist
6) Various other things.

These are not definations i gave "no" these are definations that have been implied by subs/women. Hence it is sometimes confusing( and i get my head bit off about it on some occassions) to know what you mean by no... not all NOs mean no.

I always found a dom couple being togather is like walking through a mine field. you have two dom personalities, this is like putting two bulls in a pen with 1 cow.


MY RESPONSE:
While I hate to admit it due to flying criticism, I agree that NO, doesn't always mean NO... I've run into that TOO MANY times in my personal walk to say it isn't so.


In my experience, if safewords had been negotiated beforehand, then "no" could be construed to be the same as a whimper or a moan. If safewords hadn't been negotiated beforehand then "no" means "no," no matter how hopeful either party is otherwise.

(in reply to KinkMasterDave)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Man Handled.... - 4/18/2007 3:46:25 PM   
Petronius


Posts: 289
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		There is no "protocol" in the singular; there are only a multitude of "protocols" defined by very different people. All of them have the right to define scene protocol however they wish; all the rest have a right to reject their definitions.

If you want people to follow your particular protocol you have to tell them which protocol you want them to follow.

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Man Handled.... - 4/18/2007 7:42:40 PM   
MDJour


Posts: 40
Joined: 8/8/2005
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mustardseed


quote:

ORIGINAL: KinkMasterDave

PREVIOUSLY POSTED IN A REPLY:
From a male Dom point of view, he overstepped his bounds.
Again from a male dom prospective, "no" has multiple meanings to many of us. No to me can mean:
1) No
2)im moving to fast.( usually in play)
3)Try a different approach or route. ( usually with new experiences)
4) YES!
5) i really want you to but want to "pretend" to resist
6) Various other things.

These are not definations i gave "no" these are definations that have been implied by subs/women. Hence it is sometimes confusing( and i get my head bit off about it on some occassions) to know what you mean by no... not all NOs mean no.

I always found a dom couple being togather is like walking through a mine field. you have two dom personalities, this is like putting two bulls in a pen with 1 cow.


MY RESPONSE:
While I hate to admit it due to flying criticism, I agree that NO, doesn't always mean NO... I've run into that TOO MANY times in my personal walk to say it isn't so.


In my experience, if safewords had been negotiated beforehand, then "no" could be construed to be the same as a whimper or a moan. If safewords hadn't been negotiated beforehand then "no" means "no," no matter how hopeful either party is otherwise.


Dear Mustardseed,
This was not a scene, far from it. This happened in the lobby of a hotel at a Con, after I stipulated that our meeting that evening would be as friends. As we are both Tops.  Other details are in previous posts. Just an unfortunate bad turn of events. "And in the end it doesn't even matter." LP
Graciously & Consciously, Mistress V.

(in reply to Mustardseed)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: ManHandled.... - 4/18/2007 7:43:12 PM   
Devilslilsister


Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		Well Tiger, with this :

quote:

With apathy is acceptance of the fact, and with acceptance, there is little movement to be rid of the problem. No seeking of a solution.
 

You make it seem one should be "seeking a solution".  That if one accepts the facts, there is no movement to be rid of the problem. 

quote:

I'm not here to be the solution, but I'll tell you, if I'm not part of it, I'm part of the problem.


::smiles:: this doesnt make sense.  Or are you just saying that you are part of the problem?  Since you dont know what a good solution is?  Since you arent apart of a solution?  IMO - i am only part of the problem if i can not find my own solution.  As for others.. that is there problem to find a solution too. 

i'd rather have my own little world to take care of and everyone else can take care of theres.  LOL  Realizing that its a problem, its wide spread, accepting these facts - helps me in finding my solution.  I keep my eye out for frogs.  I am not, without physical violence, able to "disallow" crappy behavior in my presence.  For that matter, even bringing upon physical violence to myself.  In my presence, a man hit his girlfriend.  I walked over and told him he was wrong and he should not hit.  (been awhile, but i didnt "allow" the behavior)  In return, i put myself on the spot for being hit and i dunno how i escaped that one. 

My solution is not putting myself in situations where problems can arise,  keeping a handy 6'3 italian by my side who can deal with these things easier, and last but not least - to walk away from any problems. 

To me its not about apathy or allowing.  Its simply about being educated about what goes on in this world.  That was all my first post on the subject ment. 

quote:

Ever see this before DLS?


eh no?  Its my sig line?  I got it from watching a stand up comic named Wanda Sykes on HBO on demand falling asleep one night and i thought it was hilarious.  There was of course, a bit more to the joke, but i've only so much room!  Its comical as women and folks are always going around calling men "dogs".  It took an old insult and put a new twist on it, with abit of truth to it.  Men are not dogs.  People are not dogs.  IMO dogs have a higher standing than most human beings.  Struck my funny bone.... with a big "Doh" 

Your point?


_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

(in reply to TigerNINTails)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: ManHandled.... - 4/19/2007 12:52:53 AM   
TigerNINTails


Posts: 178
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline 		To clarify, and I admit, I was tired when I posted that, so I was worried I might have made it sound a bit odd... It struck me funny too.

What I was saying is that while I'm not "THE" solution to this problem, or any in specific, I seek out solutions to problems I see daily. I strive to be a part of the solution, not to ignore, and therefore become part of the "the problem".

I was also stating that if your contributing to a situation, and it's problematic, what side are you contributing to? Are you seeking a solution, after accepting all the data, or are you sitting there, hoping it will fix itself? In that sense, someone becomes part of the problem, by default of not seeking a solution. This wasn't meant specifically to be directed at you, and I'm sorry if that's the way it seems. I think it applies to everyone.

Part of seeking that solution is not ignoring the problem in the first place. Yes, this means acceptance, and the first statement of mine is what didn't make sense. I apologize for that.

What I was attempting to get across, is simply knowing (accepting in some cases) that the problem is there, is not enough. One needs to act on the facts available to come to a solution, thereby resolving the problem.

Not sit there and go "Oh... well... there's a problem... It's caused by this? hmm... whatever..." It's this "whatever" attitude that is the apathy... The lack of concern, one way or another. Now in situations that don't directly involve us (aren't about us, we have not seen, etc.) well, that's somewhat expected.

But having an apathetic attitude towards bad behaviour from other human beings when it's directly in front of us... I don't see that as being beneficial to anyone, especially those that just "let it go".

Simply expecting bad behaviour to go away without positive action is not under any circumstances going to work. Thugs act like thugs because we allow it. Stop allowing it, we'll have less thugs.

Corrupt cops act that way for the same reason... The "brotherhood" in law enforcement stops condoning and takes active steps to stop it... It come to a grinding halt...

You begin to burn your food on the stove, you smell it, you realize you have the stove up too high, you turn it down, solving the problem.

This situation really is no different. Stop allowing other people to act in a manner that is not beneficial to them or yourelf and you now have stopped being part of the problem by default of not doing something about it, and then started becoming part of the solution. By default of ACTION on the facts about the problem at hand.

I hope that's more clear. I would have to say that no, I'm not part of the problem, as I tend to not tolerate behaviour that doesn't align with me to exist around me. There are situations where sometimes I feel to sit back and just observe is a better stance to take, but that's not when things get serious... Or threatening to others around me.

This, the man-handled situation is not one that I would have tolerated even looking at. I'm honestly surprised many others did allow it to come to pass without immediate action.

So that's what I was saying... *smiles*

Now, to another aspect of your post, you and I both realize, there are times when you simply cannot affect the outcome of a situation by direct confrontation of the problem. Understandable as well, which is illustrated by this from you:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister

In my presence, a man hit his girlfriend.  I walked over and told him he was wrong and he should not hit.  (been awhile, but i didnt "allow" the behavior)  In return, i put myself on the spot for being hit and i dunno how i escaped that one.


The question I'm prompted to ask here, is that though you put yourself in harms way to stand for what's right, what happened? Did you actually get hit, or did you notice a subtle "tucking of the tail" due to you calling him on his bullshit?

The reason I ask this, is that even when someone likes that postures to you, though smaller in stature etc. is (though not a caveat) that you are a threat to them, in some not so small way... You, if you didn't get hit, might well have struck a chord and caused him pause for thought.

It's not an end to it, I'm sure, but it could have planted seeds that change the way he does things over time. I don't know. I don't know the situation, I don't know you. But the fact remains, you could well have not gotten hit, simply by standing up to him.

The reason I say this, is that he didn't have the respect for her to restrain himself from acting like the assnugget and hitting her... But your standing to him and telling him like it is, likely forced some respect for you, giving him the restraint not to hit you... Plus... he doesn't know you, or who you have at your back.

Most bullies and wife beaters are cowards... Plain and simple. Not hard to not tolerate that sort of behaviour.

I hope I made more sense this time.:-)

Peace.

Tora

[Edits: Needed to add more clarification, as I seem to be failing at speaking English today.:-)]


< Message edited by TigerNINTails -- 4/19/2007 1:22:11 AM >

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Consistent Discipline Renders Punishment Unnecessary

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: ManHandled.... - 4/19/2007 7:38:54 AM   
Devilslilsister


Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you for the clarification and i can see how you are correct.  i do agree.  i can also see how my first statement on the topic lead others to to believe what they did.  ::smiles:: i understand your point now.  i get it, i get it!!  LOL

Oh, i dont know why the guy didnt deck me.  i think we argued about it, him trying to take the stand that it was his girlfriend.  I remember there were others there, but thats about it.  Its been about 8 years, my memory is shoddy, and it wasnt really a big deal.  i prolly did startle him, but i do distinctly remember pissing him off.  


_____________________________

My ability to cope with BS is at an all time low - me

i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

(in reply to TigerNINTails)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: ManHandled.... - 4/19/2007 8:08:53 AM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Try, not ignoring the elephant in the living room for a start. Don't allow the shitty behaviour to occur in your presence perhaps.

Tell people when they're out of line...


What he said....

(in reply to TigerNINTails)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Man Handled.... - 5/2/2007 9:51:42 AM   
SireKane


Posts: 105
Joined: 1/22/2004
Status: offline 		I only hope that if I ever meet a woman in a bar,  who knows that I am interested in her,  and  agrees to go somewhere more private with me, like an empty conference room, that I am not rebuffed, or villafied when I try to kiss her

Kane

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Man Handled.... - 5/2/2007 9:57:28 AM   
Arastella


Posts: 262
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline 		i hate men, they're rotten for the most part, plain and simple

(in reply to MDJour)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Man Handled.... - 5/2/2007 10:17:47 AM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		The caveman inside exists.  Personally, I don' think he should come out to play without invitation.

Stefan

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Man Handled.... - 5/3/2007 10:13:09 PM   
Shanghaid


Posts: 76
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

....Personally I have nothing to gain from trying to assert dominance upon a Domme and a lot to lose. The most painful loss would be that of a good friend, confidant, and peer.

quote:

Argentopal

This was rude and boorish in any situation and the person in question should not be considered a dom or a gentleman, fir he is the antithisis of both.


I agree with both of the above. He was completely out of line. I'm assuming alcohol was involved and he perceived (wished) something that was non-existent.

It's completely unacceptable.

SH'd

(in reply to FukinTroll)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Man Handled.... - 5/7/2007 7:44:09 PM   
MDJour


Posts: 40
Joined: 8/8/2005
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shanghaid


quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

....Personally I have nothing to gain from trying to assert dominance upon a Domme and a lot to lose. The most painful loss would be that of a good friend, confidant, and peer.

quote:

Argentopal

This was rude and boorish in any situation and the person in question should not be considered a dom or a gentleman, fir he is the antithisis of both.


I agree with both of the above. He was completely out of line. I'm assuming alcohol was involved and he perceived (wished) something that was non-existent.

It's completely unacceptable.

SH'd


Yes, some alcohol was involved and he was in Dom a Domme mode for sure. The loss of a peer is always regrettable. And I have to chastise myself for being drawn into something that I absolutely was not looking for and should have never entertained. He is on the rebound from an unhappy marriage, and I think a lot of what transpired was something of a knee jerk reaction on his part, making up for lost time, so to speak. For myself, I thought what the hell, nothing ventured, nothing gained, But from his subsequent emails, threats not withstanding, he has found the perfect slave to meet his needs..... Whatever that means. As for myself, I am as I was prior to this incident, back to minding my own business and going forward with my own life. A big thank you to eveyone who has cast their opinion here in this matter.
Most Graciously, Mistress V.
 

(in reply to Shanghaid)
Profile   Post #: 99
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