RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga

RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (Full Version)

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boy43 -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 6:49:32 AM)
I dont know about states specially, but in all countries would be a surprise, gays arent still, as any other minorities, considered as normal people in the XXI century. But i am sure the politics will put any woman/man as candidate as far as they have huge options to be elected, no matter how is She/he. Besides i think that to have a president of other isnt really significant, but the economic and social groups that suport the candidate and to whom the president will be looking at during the years it is in the power. be well, :)

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 6:52:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkMsSusan Being lesbian myself I find that anyone in the bdsm community thinking that they have a right to even say this when their lifestyle would be put to task in every aspect of human relations. perhaps that is the VERY reason of bringing up this to begin with. Ever think of that? For a bunch of opened minded people it seems some are more sanctimonious and hypocritical than a bunch of mormans in Sunday church. Just because people of like ideas, perceptions and lifestyles group together in gatherings and cybermeetings , it does not mean that they are accepted by main stream America or policies govering countries nor are they free from possible prosecution or percecution from legal or govermental affair groups of different formats. Ross ©º°¨¨°º©

SusanofO -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 6:54:42 AM)
You asked a question, I answered it. am not quite sure how to interpret your responses, and think they really only serve to bolster what I said to begin with, actually, in many ways. As far as what you think I know, I read 3 major news magazines a week, so I consider myself fairly well in formed (at least, above average, maybe). Sorry if that's not enough. My Oops. Your responses (to me anyway) also seemed to completely change the original topic, IMO. In order (for me) to be able to have a discussion, there must be an original topic, that one sticks with, and discusses, IMO. Your responses were kind of all over the place (but maybe that was just my interpretation of it). Again, I am not trying to be insulting. Still, I find it hard to discuss anything, when that happens. IMO, you can't debate someone's opinions, you can only disagree, (or agree) which is what you really are doing (always disagreeing). Which is fine, I suppose, But - IMO a real debate (or discussion) usually includes facts, site references, etc. You did toss a few of those in during your responses, but - each of those responses is a topic unto itself - and could be debated for eons, and all of those responses were more opinions, not facts. This will probably serve to confuse respondents, or throw the thread off-track (it did me, anyway). So, yeah, you'll "win" any "debate" - via default, actually, which isn't a fair and square way to do it, IMO. It can pay to at least aknowledging another POV, even if one isn't in total agreement with it. Not much of this appears to be happening, because your POV is very polarized to begin with - but maybe it's not intentional, I have no idea, really. What is the topic? I don't understand what the topic is, really. It is actually a very polarized opinion, IMO, not a topic of discussion in which POVs will be given equal weight, or discussed in a balanced way. There doesn't appear to be much (if any) room for discussion, in fact. Is the topic is really that times have changed? Well, yes they have. Of course they have. And.....? Not much to debate there, really, IMO. I am not trying to hurt your feelings, I am just not understanding what is going on. I answered the original question, though. At least I thought I did. I am really pretty confused about what happened, actually. But I am not trying to be disrespectful, truly. Be well, - Susan

mnottertail -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 6:55:16 AM)
We already have a gay president, look at the cornholing that the american public has been taking. Ron

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 6:56:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CucholdsLady I don't care what they do in their bedroom as long as they are not violating other people, killing, or screwing the public out of their rights, but are actually leading the nation into a better future and are not war mongers....hmmm...guess that means I am anti-republican....LOL So are you saying gays are incapable of war? That being of one faction could not or would not conciously or subconciously influence either overtly or subtly policies and decisions based on bias of ones own origins or preferences be it sexual or assumed role? Ross ©º°¨¨°º© Ross ©º°¨¨°º©

SusanofO -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 6:56:51 AM)
mnottertail: Sometimes, I just want to reach through the screen and hug you. - Susan

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 6:58:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rc4otkVA I'm really surprised that in this day in age, on this website, that anyone thinks that the quality of who's in charge of our country has anything to do with what that person likes to do in bed. You don't think that's the pot calling the kettle black? What makes you think the caliber of mindset and perception on this website is better or more open to expression of thoughts and perceptions that may be of political / social in nature than that of mainstream? Perhaps We have been reading different remarks / flames. Ross ©º°¨¨°º©

StellaByStarlite -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 7:02:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO mnottertail: Sometimes, I just want to reach through the screen and hug you. - Susan Ditto. SirD69.. dang.. I don't think I deserved that biting little bit of sarcasm. It was a lighthearted comment. If this whole topic brings out the snarly in you, don't take it out on me.

softness -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes against (4/11/2007 7:03:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69 I find it laughable that people get upset about concepts but allow genecide to continue because they are too f*cking lazy to get off their asses and do the right thing. may I ask what it is You are doing to move the world forward to a better place? what political action? what aid work? what social work? ... is this post, your stand? is this your drive to "get off your ass and do the right thing?" ... this is a polite question asked in a polite manner, would be a shame to recieve a sardonic reply

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 7:04:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: boy43 I dont know about states specially, but in all countries would be a surprise, gays arent still, as any other minorities, considered as normal people in the XXI century. But i am sure the politics will put any woman/man as candidate as far as they have huge options to be elected, no matter how is She/he. Besides i think that to have a president of other isnt really significant, but the economic and social groups that suport the candidate and to whom the president will be looking at during the years it is in the power. What about religions in general? Certain countries condemn homosexuals to death by various means. The Quakers can't even agree on gays and acceptance. Perhaps someone might enlighten Me to which MAINSTREAM (not some fringe where you become a minister via sending $25 to some ad in the back of Rolling Stone) or one that is not in trouble (worshippers falling off in droves due to not accepting teachings) and there by accepting anything to get those back into the flock...(after all more worshippers the more money for the coffers right?) readily accepts homosexuality as a accepted way of life? Ross ©º°¨¨°º© Ross ©º°¨¨°º©

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 7:16:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69 Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not. It goes against everything the Unted States and the Founding Fathers established and outlined in their writings. Ross ©º°¨¨°º© please direct me to which part of the U.S. Constitution where it states that a gay/bi/transgender/lesbian cannot be president. also please direct me to the part where it goes against what the Founding Fathers outlined. i suppose you're a male who believes women don't have the right to vote or that all persons aren't created equal if you really want to take what the Founding Fathers actually thought deeper.

rc4otkVA -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 7:18:41 AM)
SirD, I'm not saying I haven't met some oddly closeminded people here. I'm saying that this site is full of people from all walks of life. Many of them lead successful business lives in public, and what they like to do behind closed doors has nothing to do with that. This includes average joes, CEOs, and even some in politics. Their sexual interests don't have anything with their abilities to be good or suitable leaders. I don't see how this is any different.

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 7:38:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl please direct me to which part of the U.S. Constitution where it states that a gay/bi/transgender/lesbian cannot be president. also please direct me to the part where it goes against what the *Founding Fathers* outlined. i suppose you're a male who believes women don't have the right to vote or that all persons aren't created equal if you really want to take what the *Founding Fathers* actually thought deeper. Actually I voted for Geraldine for Vp and will for Hillary for Prez Even though there were no *founding mothers* writing the outline and you? Question: Why does your avitar look nothing like you? Is there a reason for that? Just wondering. Ross ©º°¨¨°º©

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 7:41:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rc4otkVA I'm not saying I haven't met some oddly closeminded people here. I'm saying that this site is full of people from all walks of life. Many of them lead successful business lives in public, and what they like to do behind closed doors has nothing to do with that. This includes average joes, CEOs, and even some in politics. Their sexual interests don't have anything with their abilities to be good or suitable leaders. I don't see how this is any different. So do you feel there is no possiblity to a conflict of interest regarding their sexual proclivities? So are you sayig that knowing someone enjoyts the same activities as you do you do not favor or show a partiality to them in public or private dealings or communications? Ross ©º°¨¨°º©

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 7:57:51 AM)
keep just wondering about differences of my avatar and picture ...i don't have to explain anything to you here. the next time you wonder, send a note. still seems sexist to me that you feel a gay/bi or whatever their sexual orientation cannot perform the duties and job as president. if Hillary was a bi or lesbian, would you still vote for her? i highly doubt it because as according to you, it goes against what the US Constitution outlined and Founding Fathers (you so adamently pointed out to me) had written. i'm still waiting for you to clarify at which point of the U.S. Constitution where it states that a bi/gay/transgender/lesbian cannot be elected as president to support your arrogant reasoning. does it really what sexual orientation a presidential candidate is? does there need to be an amendment stating that ALL future leaders of this free need to be a moral Christian, married with no checkered past, drug and alcohol-free, english speaking American citizen and family man?

SusanofO -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 8:11:00 AM)
Whether gays "deserve" to be in political office is one of those emotionally charged topics IMO, for people who are going to base their answers on things like what the Bible supposedly says, etc. Much like the anti-abortion / pro-choice debate - it's not going to go anywhere - it's just too emotionally-charged a topic for some people to apparently discuss and come to any agreement or decision. They can however, yell their heads off at eachother and call it a "debate" I already gave my answer to the question. The Bible has very valuable things to say, IMO. It is also very much historically skewed as a "factual" reference, as it also appeared to condone non-consensual slavery, and a whole slew of other things many (if not most) would not agree with today. It had about a hundred different writers, was pieced together by various publishers, and has been re-written numerous times over the years. You can pick out parts of it, that any would probably agree (or just as much disagree) with, and call it "backing up your opinion with a reliable reference source" (but that doesn't make that necessarily "true", IMO). It just makes what one person (or a group) may or may not believe, IMO, as far as condemning homosexuality, appear to be a reliable "fact", and only in some eyes. IMO, homosexuality is genetically based, and biologically determined. I don't care who agrees with me. God doesn't make junk - pure and simple fact. And anyone who would condemn someone else for being what they were born to be (such as gay) probably has not much right practicing kink, either, if they likewise think themselves to be "born that way" (kinky) . It is hypocritical as all get out, IMO. If there isn't enough hatred for you in this hemisphere, then try the other side instead. You'll find plenty of it anywhere you care to really look, IMO. I don't consider it my job to add to that mess. Apparently some people do. - Susan

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 8:19:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl keep just wondering about differences of my avatar and picture ...i don't have to explain anything to you here. the next time you wonder, send a note. Seems misleading at best as it looks like NOTHING like you in ANY way.... still seems sexist to me that you feel a gay/bi or whatever their sexual orientation cannot perform the duties and job as president. Well that is your perception of what you thought I said. Bottom line United States is NOT ready for it. Period. if Hillary was a bi or lesbian, would you still vote for her? Based on what she has done..havng done work for her hubby...yes... Just who have you voted for in the past or do you vote? i highly doubt it because as according to you, it goes against what the US Constitution outlined and Founding Fathers (you so adamently pointed out to me) had written. Good breeding consists of concealing how much we think of ourselves and how little we think of the other person. i'm still waiting for you to clarify at which point of the U.S. Constitution where it states that a bi/gay/transgender/lesbian cannot be elected as president to support your arrogant reasoning. There is nothing holy nor sacred to those who have abandoned God and reason in order to follow their perverse desires. François Rabelais (1494–1553), French author, evangelist does it really what sexual orientation a presidential candidate is? Yes if there is a bias toward what policies are enacted or prejudice towards. Yes. does there need to be an amendment stating that ALL future leaders of this free need to be a moral Christian, married with no checkered past, drug and alcohol-free, english speaking American citizen and family man? Now that is a thought... I will get right on it. Ross ©º°¨¨°º©

Domin8tingUrDrmz -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 8:20:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69 So do you feel there is no possiblity to a conflict of interest regarding their sexual proclivities? So are you sayig that knowing someone enjoyts the same activities as you do you do not favor or show a partiality to them in public or private dealings or communications? Ross ©º°¨¨°º© I am curious. What conflicts of interest do you foresee occuring if a gay/lesbian person were to become President? Do you not see those same conflicts occuring in hetero Presidents? Even if a gay/lesbian person were to become President, they would not have the sole ability to establish gay/lesbian movement laws. There are checks and balances in place which usually prevent such things from occuring. Personally, I wouldn't care one way or another if the gay and lesbian community were able to marry, or have other rights afforded them that they should not need to fight for. However, because of congress, this likely would not occur; there are far too many in office who would prevent this from happening, and too many voters who would prevent this from happening. I do not understand your reasons for such concerns.

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 8:24:38 AM)
my point is - i don't really care if Senator Obama (or any other candidate) was a submissive transgender in private while serving this nation as president and commander in chief. his sexual orientation alongwith others in politics should not play any importance in your decision to vote for whomever you choose is best suited for the job, man, woman, black, mixed, white, bi, gay, etc etc etc. my vote is not influenced nor swayed in that capacity - what matters most to me is their stance on key political issues and this "war" ...other than that, i could care less is Hillary was bi-Domme with Bill or Obama was a male slave transgender for his Dom.

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: Do you feel that a gay person should be the President of The United States? I do not It goes aga (4/11/2007 8:34:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO You asked a question, I answered it. Well I am glad you actually went back and editted it...so really you are answering it twice[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m10.gif[/image] am not quite sure how to interpret your responses, That is a good start...an intelligent look at it is always a strat rather than falling back on the emotion aspect. and think they really only serve to bolster what I said to begin with, actually, in many ways. As far as what you think I know, I read 3 major news magazines a week, so I consider myself fairly well in formed (at least, above average, maybe). Sorry if that's not enough. My Oops. I am not going to bore you with the reams of paper I read...it really doesn't matter...what does matter is what We are doing about it. Through discussion there is examination and reaffirmation of core values. Politcal and social rammifications happen all the time due to peoples acceptance and complacency Your responses (to me anyway) also seemed to completely change the original topic, IMO. In order (for me) to be able to have a discussion, there must be an original topic, that one sticks with, and discusses, IMO. Your responses were kind of all over the place (but maybe that was just my interpretation of it). Again, I am not trying to be insulting. Still, I find it hard to discuss anything, when that happens. Yes it may be hard to read but there are so many examples of injustices and it seemed better to put them all in my post rather than flood the forums and have mod 11 message Me with a daily tidbit. IMO, you can't debate someone's opinions, you can only disagree, (or agree) which is what you really are doing (always disagreeing). Which is fine, I suppose, But - IMO a real debate (or discussion) usually includes facts, site references, etc. Yes I do follow a drummer of a different calling...nothing wrong with that as I never have been an aimless follower...yes I play devils advocate to stregnthen My core values....and I can do it is a socratic manner where some stoop to mudslinging and name calling simply because of lack of social graces. I have not found you ever to be in that company. Yes it was meant to get you thinking. Obviously it has made some start to think and with a little bit of practice they will get good at it.[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m10.gif[/image] You did toss a few of those in during your responses, but - each of those responses is a topic unto itself - and could be debated for eons, and all of those responses were more opinions, not facts. This will probably serve to confuse respondents, or throw the thread off-track (it did me, anyway). So, yeah, you'll "win" any "debate" - via default, actually, which isn't a fair and square way to do it, IMO. Not looking for a "win" and so what if each reply is a subject unto itself? Is there a time limit imposed here?...just limitation of some attention spands... Is there a posting limit imposed?...not that I am aware of... Confused? Call Me on it and I will attempt to clarrify. If I made a mistake I will admit to it. But do not expect Me to just sit here and take the garbage some spewn forth...I am in real face to face this way so this is no cyber facade. It can pay to at least aknowledging another POV, even if one isn't in total agreement with it. Not much of this appears to be happening, because your POV is very polarized to begin with - but maybe it's not intentional, I have no idea, really. What is the topic? I don't understand what the topic is, really. It is actually a very polarized opinion, IMO, not a topic of discussion in which POVs will be given equal weight, or discussed in a balanced way. There doesn't appear to be much (if any) room for discussion, in fact. Sorry you feel that way but if you didn't you wouldn't of changed your original closed remark to explain all this. Is the topic is really that times have changed? Well, yes they have. Of course they have. And.....? Not much to debate there, really, IMO. I am not trying to hurt your feelings, I am just not understanding what is going on. I answered the original question, though. At least I thought I did. I am really pretty confused about what happened, actually. But I am not trying to be disrespectful, truly. I never thought you were dismissive (well yes I did) but not disrespectful at all. Thanks for coming back...good minds are hard to find.... just ask Dan Quayle [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m10.gif[/image] Ross ©º°¨¨°º©

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