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RE: Adhering to hard limits - 4/13/2007 11:04:52 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

It is obvious that I am not able to properly explain the difference. One of these limits the Master, a type which you've pointed out repeatedly that you don't have. The other does not limit the master, but merely indicates things that would be difficult for you, e.g. for moral reasons or due to aversions, a type you have not clarified if you have. If my explanation still doesn't convey the difference, let's just leave it at that, rather than derailing the thread.


this slave understands fully your explanations of the differences of  "types" of limits that you perceive and how they apply to "a" slave or "a" Master or "a" relationship--in theory and generalization.  got it the first time.
 
what you seem not to understand is that a slave or sub could actually NOT limit by way of rules, demands, safewords, hard or soft, the relationship they are a part of, or their Master/Mistress.
 
it happens in many relationships.  just because folks outside the realtionship don't understand, or think it's unsafe, or wouldn't do it themselves, doesn't make it inherently wrong, unethical, unrealistic, unhealthy, impossible, unfulfilling, misrepresented or undesired by others.

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Adhering to hard limits - 4/13/2007 11:47:17 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

just because folks outside the realtionship don't understand, or think it's unsafe, or wouldn't do it themselves, doesn't make it inherently wrong, unethical, unrealistic, unhealthy, impossible, unfulfilling, misrepresented or undesired by others.


I have to back this up.  When I'm honest with myself and clearly write out how I approach limits, it seems crazy even to me. 

But, in practice when I start really working with the idea of limits, I find I can't specify them in advance.  Its not that I don't have any points of resistance because I'm sure I do, so I dont call myself a "no limits"  gal.  But, I've been in plenty of situations where I thought I could never do this or that and found out I had no trouble with it whatsoever.  There have been times where I thought I could do something, and found in the moment of truth that I couldn't.  There have been times when, of necessity, I've even gone against my own morals and realized the morals I thought I had didn't take everything into account. (I've learned to be very careful when judging people because of this.  Judgements tend to come back to haunt me.)

The more I've thought about it, the more I'm convinced that the problem isn't with people who have "no limits" but in the way we think and talk about this idea of limits.




_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Adhering to hard limits - 4/13/2007 11:57:53 AM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl


The more I've thought about it, the more I'm convinced that the problem isn't with people who have "no limits" but in the way we think and talk about this idea of limits.




Bingo! That gets ya a slurp!
 
This thread illustrates this well.
 
When we are accepting one another we enter that relationship with a good idea of how the dynamic will work. We, should, understand our values to each other and the limits issue really would have no power.  

_____________________________

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TrollTopia
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The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Adhering to hard limits - 4/13/2007 6:14:13 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave understands fully your explanations of the differences of  "types" of limits that you perceive and how they apply to "a" slave or "a" Master or "a" relationship--in theory and generalization.  got it the first time.


*sigh*

This does not appear to be the case, and I'm obviously not able to explain it. Hence, I'll stop trying to do that.

quote:

what you seem not to understand is that a slave or sub could actually NOT limit by way of rules, demands, safewords, hard or soft, the relationship they are a part of, or their Master/Mistress.


And here is where I say you're just focusing on one side of the issue. Everything you have mentioned here is related to what I called "hard" or "relationship" limits. But I'm not about to go back and try to explain the other type unless anyone specifically wants me to.

quote:

it happens in many relationships.  just because folks outside the realtionship don't understand, or think it's unsafe, or wouldn't do it themselves, doesn't make it inherently wrong, unethical, unrealistic, unhealthy, impossible, unfulfilling, misrepresented or undesired by others.


I know it happens in many relationships. I understand. I think it can be safe, depending on the Master. I would certainly do it myself, just with a specific standard of informed consent up front, one that will seem odd to most, I'd wager, but, yeah, I'd do it myself. I don't think it's inherently wrong (I'm a moral relativist, there is no "inherently wrong" in any action or point of view, IMO). I don't think it's unethical, as long as prior consent was given. I don't think it's unrealistic. I haven't a clue as to whether it's healthy, nor do I care if the slave agrees to it up front. I know it's not impossible. I imagine it would be very fulfilling. I don't consider it undesireable.

Can I possibly be more clear?

Sincerely,
Aswad.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Adhering to hard limits - 4/13/2007 6:16:48 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

The more I've thought about it, the more I'm convinced that the problem isn't with people who have "no limits" but in the way we think and talk about this idea of limits.


Quite agree. This is what I was trying to clear up, although I don't seem to be conveying the point very well.


(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Adhering to hard limits - 4/13/2007 7:41:19 PM   
arayofsunshine55


Posts: 545
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: San Francisco, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kiyari

quote:

ORIGINAL: arayofsunshine55

Since I started this my hard limits are few and unchanged.  No long-term damage - mental, emotional, physical, financial, spiritual, familial.  No interest in those limits changing.  There is more than enough room to play within those very wide parameters.  More than enough things I have never tried which would be new to me.  There's no need for us to push my limits.


Thank you for laying out the perfect "Hard Limits" list!
I would add to this only: "Legal" ;-)


For me legal would impact financial, mental, emotional and familial and spiritual and is therefore covered under those. 


_____________________________

Sunshine

Is it not most transformative, most earthshaking, to pierce the veils of self-deception and illusion, and crack the eggshell of ignorance, to most intimately encounter oneself? Lama Surya Das

(in reply to kiyari)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Adhering to hard limits - 4/13/2007 11:10:55 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 How many of you adhere to your hard limits?

How many have been pushed into a hard limit and were glad they did?
How many have been pushed into a hard limit and suffered because of it? 


 
My limits are based on one of two things; the first is that I have tried it and experienced such a negative emotional fall out that I will never do it again.  The second is that I have no desire to risk my life.
My hard limits are mine; it doesn’t matter to me whether a dominant has those same limits or not.  Either he accepts my limits or moves on. 


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
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(in reply to FukinTroll)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Adhering to hard limits - 4/13/2007 11:56:07 PM   
DarkVictory


Posts: 247
Joined: 8/7/2004
Status: offline 		But what about those of us that *want* and *intend* to violate you?

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Adhering to hard limits - 4/14/2007 10:19:00 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		but You know i am "limits girl" .. what fun would there be in violating me if i had no limits Master?

and FYI ... You are the one with the ice cream cone ... i might be violating You .. starting with Your oatmeal limits!

xxxxx

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio





(in reply to DarkVictory)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Adhering to hard limits - 4/15/2007 3:28:06 PM   
Stranger1


Posts: 219
Joined: 4/13/2007
Status: offline 		Limits and respect are for everyone-not just subs.

(in reply to FukinTroll)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Adhering to hard limits - 9/21/2007 8:57:41 PM   
ckmidmodom


Posts: 5
Joined: 3/26/2007
Status: offline 		Evening. I do so enjoy pushing hard limits...probing them...attempting to understand them, then attacking them. For me, being a Dom is extending the experiences of my sub. LOL....probably why I am sub-less at the moment. Hope all of you are well. Feel free to drop me a line.

_____________________________

Claude K
Male Dominate
Missouri, St Louis and Columbia areas

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Adhering to hard limits - 9/21/2007 9:10:49 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Hard limits are usualy there because to breach that hard limit would damage someone emotionally or pychically, or it's so repugnant they never wish to do it. So if it's the latter maybe if it's a hard limit cause it'd be damaging, those in my mind are never to be messed with.

Obviously some are there, like no children cause we have no desire to be child molesters, I doubt those kind are the limits you're talking about pushing though lol.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ckmidmodom

Evening. I do so enjoy pushing hard limits...probing them...attempting to understand them, then attacking them.

(in reply to ckmidmodom)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Adhering to hard limits - 9/21/2007 9:24:36 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Yup yup yup, I had anal sex as a hard limit, I still do for those who'd demand it of me, regardless of my lack of interest or not, but for someone who's willing to tease me and talk to me and put me in the headspace where I'd beg them to fuck my ass, cause I wanted  it so much, I'd do anal. That's the mark of a good* in my opnion* dominant, they can patiently work at something and in time hell I'd be so eager to do it you would of thought it was my idea in the first place.
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I hate these sort of threads.  I believe limits should be expected and that many who push limits should be pushed off a cliff.  That said, I fucking LOVE pushing limits. 

Pushing however isn't the best word for it.  I don't push limits I seduce them, I don't undermine them, I respect them.  Its a lot like anal sex, its ALWAYS hot to talk about shoving a big cock in without lube but the reality isn't always quite as hot.  However, talking about it, teasing it, showing respect AND patience often yields rewards and offers an amazing bonding experience.  The trick is to not expect anything, something at times I find hard but that is where patience comes in.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Adhering to hard limits - 9/21/2007 9:25:51 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		Back in the day..I tried switching-thought it the thing to do. I listed having my asshole played wityh as a hard Limit to the Domme I was seeing. She thought it was silly-and put a finger up there one day. I dumped her. She whined, she bitched she told me I was immature, and not a sub. I told her to go fuck her own ass-if she liked it so damn much.

It was a lesson in respect that I never forgot-I was always upfront about my kinks after that-and  If someone limits them-fine-we won't have a relationship. But PUSH a hard limit?

I don't think so.

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I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to FukinTroll)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Adhering to hard limits - 9/21/2007 10:27:41 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

Yup yup yup, I had anal sex as a hard limit, I still do for those who'd demand it of me, regardless of my lack of interest or not, but for someone who's willing to tease me and talk to me and put me in the headspace where I'd beg them to fuck my ass, cause I wanted  it so much, I'd do anal. That's the mark of a good* in my opnion* dominant, they can patiently work at something and in time hell I'd be so eager to do it you would of thought it was my idea in the first place.
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I hate these sort of threads.  I believe limits should be expected and that many who push limits should be pushed off a cliff.  That said, I fucking LOVE pushing limits. 

Pushing however isn't the best word for it.  I don't push limits I seduce them, I don't undermine them, I respect them.  Its a lot like anal sex, its ALWAYS hot to talk about shoving a big cock in without lube but the reality isn't always quite as hot.  However, talking about it, teasing it, showing respect AND patience often yields rewards and offers an amazing bonding experience.  The trick is to not expect anything, something at times I find hard but that is where patience comes in.



Yes,that would be the realistic, fun way to do it. And how I always have-not by brunt of an inflated ego.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Adhering to hard limits - 9/21/2007 10:55:44 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline
It's an extreamly fucking shame you're so far away RRafe, I'd be willing to play with ya if you were interested and not  so far away lol. I'm not into D/s protocal's either.

(in reply to RRafe)
Profile   Post #: 96
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