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RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 2:04:52 PM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

A license is just a piece of paper. They are often easy to get.
They mean very little. Experience and knowledge are
more important than a piece of paper hanging on the wall.

Wow, tell that to the brain surgeon who says while he doesn't have a piece of paper on the wall, he has lots of experience cutting out sections...

I would agree that experience is very valuable, especially when dealing with such issues as health (mental or physical) but one should only start to get that experience after extensive training and background into that which they are trying to gain experience in.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 61

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 2:10:54 PM

jauntyone

Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline

quote:

A license is just a piece of paper. They are often easy to get.
They mean very little. Experience and knowledge are
more important than a piece of paper hanging on the wall.

Greetings

My mother is a surgeon. She would often talk to us about her work. I know quite a bit about the brain. This however, does not make me qualified in the area.

My father builds houses in his spare time. I have often helped him. I know ALOT about construction. This does not however make me an expert.

Being in the military I have seen my share of battles, had my share of injuries. I can effectively stitch up any wound. This does not make me a medic.

I am trained in self-defense. It is something that is second nature to me. It does not however give me license to instruct others; nor does it make me an expert.

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 62

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 2:14:59 PM

Najakcharmer

Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip
A license is just a piece of paper. They are often easy to get.
They mean very little. Experience and knowledge are
more important than a piece of paper hanging on the wall.

Translation: you have no professional credentials and no business practicing medicine without a license.

quote:

But there are some people who can't get over it. You can't tell a person sufffering from post traumatic stress syndrome or depression, "Just get over it." It doens't work that way. Some people are so traumatized they can never get over it. It haunts them every day of their lives. It has more to do with the individual person, then the degree of abuse. Some people are a lot more sensitive than others. Some children are able to endure a lot and come out relatively unscathed. Some children are very fragile and break. Once the psyche is broken, like Humpty Dumpty, it can never be put back the way it was before. Some survivors self-mutilate, suffer borderline personality disorder, and suffer DID (formerly MPD)--they actually have different personalities. Some survivors develop an irrational hatred of all men, because their brains have a hard time differentiating between different members of a class.

Right. And these people need PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL CARE, not a self-proclaimed kinky whipmaster who thinks he can fix them right up at home.

< Message edited by Najakcharmer -- 4/12/2007 2:15:47 PM >

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 63

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 2:15:13 PM

puella

Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

A license is just a piece of paper. They are often easy to get.
They mean very little. Experience and knowledge are
more important than a piece of paper hanging on the wall.
Most people I have counselled to tell I helped them more
in a few hours than all the psychiatrists they have seen their
entire life. I have a pretty good working knowledge of psychiatry and psychology. But I have a few things most psychiatrists and psychologists don't have: empathy, understanding, non-judgmentalness, and an ability to communicate with people who are unable to communicate with others.

Wow... dude you just showed your ass....

You also showed how potentially dangerous you are.

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 64

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 2:18:25 PM

WhipTheHip

Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline

We live in a society where people are obsessed with credentials. Credentials mean nothing to me. And the absence of credentials means nothing to me. I would trust someone who is not a doctor to remove my appendicts if they have done it for over ten years and never had a single failure. People would be shocked if they knew how little a license really means.

Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. Just beause someone with credentials says something doesn't mean they are right. I am self-taught in many fields, and my work in these fields are generally considered much better than most professionals. There are many reasons for this. One is love learning. Many professionals just learn enough to get their license which is all they care about. Then all they want to do is make money. I on the other hand seek knowledge out for its own sake. I don't care about making money. I'll spend however long it takes to understand everything I can. I'll match my skills against any professional in any objective contest. Of course there are many things I don't do like brain surgery. After my first four failures, I thought I would give it a rest.

When it comes to law, psychiatry, psychology, a/c repair, electrical wiring, trading stock, options and futures, photography and helping people in need I'll pit my skill against most professionals in any objective test. Though I really admire Roy Black and David Boies. I'm not in their league.

_____________________________

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 65

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 2:20:48 PM

WhipTheHip

Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jauntyone

quote:

A license is just a piece of paper. They are often easy to get.
They mean very little. Experience and knowledge are
more important than a piece of paper hanging on the wall.

Greetings

My mother is a surgeon. She would often talk to us about her work. I know quite a bit about the brain. This however, does not make me qualified in the area.

My father builds houses in his spare time. I have often helped him. I know ALOT about construction. This does not however make me an expert.

Being in the military I have seen my share of battles, had my share of injuries. I can effectively stitch up any wound. This does not make me a medic.

I am trained in self-defense. It is something that is second nature to me. It does not however give me license to instruct others; nor does it make me an expert.

I wish you well

melissa

You are right about everything you say. What is your point?

_____________________________

(in reply to jauntyone)

Post #: 66

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 2:27:23 PM

WhipTheHip

Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline

What makes this country great is you have the right to believe what you like. I don't practice medicine without license. If you want to think so, that is your right. If you think I'm dangerous, that is also your right. Personally, I think people who put too much faith in credentials are dangerous. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. So far, the only people that matter to me think I'm right, thank me for my help, and remain loyal to me. I am not bothered by people who don't believe me here. It is no skin off my back. It's not my loss. There was a time the experts taught the Earth was flat. Truth is not subject to popular vote.

_____________________________

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 67

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 2:30:20 PM

WhipTheHip

Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline

Puella wrote:
> Wow... dude you just showed your ass.... You also
> showed how potentially dangerous you are.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

_____________________________

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 68

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 2:30:31 PM

spanklette

Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline

I find it difficult to believe that you can communicate with people who have trouble communicating...you're having trouble communicating on a communication forum.

Sure, a license is just a piece of paper...that proves that this person has, at the very least a modicum, of understanding in the field they are practicing in.

Aside from that, psychologists tend to be board certified in different areas. So even a PhD might reffer a sexual abuse victim to another therapist with that particular specialty.

As a person who has seen therapists and psychologists...they have plenty of empathy and understanding.

You're way out of line and you're putting down an entire profession and group of people without ever having met most, if any, of them. You continue to make generalizations and you're wrong.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 69

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 2:40:18 PM

WhipTheHip

Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline

Give me a test and your professional psychiatrist or psychologist a test and see who scores higher. When I was in high school I read through college textbooks taught over the course of year in a week. How much did I absorb? On advanced
placements I scored higher than "A" students who just finished the course, and were given the same test. I don't care if a brain surgeon has a degree or not. All I care is how well he diagnosises illnesses and performs surgery. People who don't know are impressed by degrees. A degree does not make anyone an expert. Egyptian astronomers did not have a single degree but they sure knew their astronomy.

_____________________________

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 70

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 2:43:42 PM

rascallymisty

Posts: 123
Joined: 8/1/2006
Status: offline

I read the forums when I can, but I have never read one of yours before Whip.......nor will I ever be reading one again. Your one scary dude with the thoughts you have. I did note you have said a few times that...."The funny thing is none of the survivors I have done this with were into bdsm or even knew it existed". Thankfully for us submissive then, that has been the case thus far. I would think that most if not all believe in SSC here...I do not see where you do.

~ misty ~

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 71

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 2:46:43 PM

bandit25

Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline

You really need to step away from the computer. Your claims are laughable not to mention just plain ridiculous. Get a clue, dude, no one is buying.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 72

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 2:54:41 PM

WhipTheHip

Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: spanklette
I find it difficult to believe that you can communicate with people who have trouble communicating...you're having trouble communicating on a communication forum.

That cinches it.   You have the right to believe what you like.

> Sure, a license is just a piece of paper...that proves that this
> person has, at the very least a modicum, of understanding
> in the field they are practicing in.

No, it doesn't prove anything of the sort. But you can
believe what you like.   If only people knew how little a license
means. Yeah, it probably means the guy knows more than
your next door neighbor. It never ceases to amaze me how
little many people with degrees really know. They forget 99.99%
of the stuff they had to learn to get the degree. Most people
with a license or a degree couldn't get them again if their life
depended on it.

> Aside from that, psychologists tend to be board certified in
> different areas.

Voodoo doctors have their own certification system. Psychology
is not a hard science. When it actually comes down to verification
by double-blind studies, most psychology theories fall by the
wayside.

> So even a PhD might reffer a sexual abuse victim to another
> therapist with that particular specialty.

Aha!    What you have are people with great intellect who have
little understanding of human emotion trying to help people with
severe emotional problems.   Ph.D.s are the last people that
can help others with emotional issues.

>As a person who has seen therapists and psychologists...
> they have plenty of empathy and understanding.

Every person's mileage varies. I am very happy for you.
The people I deal with tend not to be so lucky.

> You're way out of line and you're putting down an
> entire profession and group of people without ever
> having met most, if any, of them.

I guess you never heard of statistical sampling,
product quality control, sample populations and
the like. In any event, I am unaware I put down
an entire profession.

> You continue to make generalizations and you're wrong.

Maybe. You are entitled to your opinion. Then again
how do you know I am wrong if you haven't met
most of them, youself? Aren't you doing the exact
same thing you accused me of doing?

_____________________________

(in reply to spanklette)

Post #: 73

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 3:00:13 PM

WhipTheHip

Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline

Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything they don't want to do.
Obviously, I've hit a raw nerve. Yeah, if you want to believe
I am a very dangerous guy, that is your perogative. Sorry for
making a suggestion that has worked for dozens of people I've
met in life. Obviously, it can't have worked for all the above
stated logical reasons.

_____________________________

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 74

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 3:01:18 PM

puella

Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

Here is what your ignorance is failing to illuminate for you:

Psychiatry and psychology are legitimate medical fields. You might think you know what you are doing, but until you study what your words and actions and guidance does to effect the damaged or misaligned human psyche.... chances are you will be instilling another pathology in the person you are dealing with, and also, you might very well compromise other people they deal with.

Case in point.... I deal with domestic abusers. The court mandates that they attend the counseling that I facilitate with another councilor (there are always two, and they always try to have a man and a woman... but that is another issue). When I went into training for this, I though it all seemed ever so up and up.. domestic violence being an anger management issue and that really delving in and digging up the roots of these issues was how we stop this terrible cycle of violence, blah blah, an ounce of empathy is worth a pound of cure, etc.

I was wrong... wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong (much like you). (Er... feel free to fall asleep while I get pedantic, everyone but WTH).

The domestic abuser is not a person with an anger management issue at all. The worst thing you can do, in fact is to create an empathy with them and to delve into their issues head first.

Sounds ass backwards, doesn't it? I am a smart cookie, let me assure you I took the instructors on nose to nose on this, and was very patiently shown the error of my ways... BEFORE I was let in contact with the clients...because my misinformation and inexperience could have (and would have) caused serious, serious ramifications.

Here is the kicker... treating the pathology improperly sets of other events. They do not all happen immediately, but the do happen eventually. Empathy to an abuser is just another feeder for problem, which is a warped sensibility of power and warped processeing of power. To feed it or to challenge it will not (usually) manifest in violence or ill effects to the councilor... it will instead be manifest itself to the woman he abuses, and make the possibility of future correction of his pathology all the more difficult for him. Essentially, you have to treat this with a very delicate hand... there has to be a non-confrontational, non-judgmental and often times almost non existent presence presenting information which they can relate to without being patronized, and the best way for them to really 'get it' is to have them see the warped concept of power and consequence as presented by other peers in discussion and exploration. They can then recognize (first step) the problem, and in the discussion process with their peer (non-confrontational to them and within the respectful boundaries outilined by the Delphi power wheel) in the group. If a man feels challenged by someone 'higher' than a peer (playing into his power issue), he will most likely go home and beat the shit out of his partner (who, we also treat, as they have their OWN pathology).

I would have thought that being 'gentle yet firm' and dealing with the issues... would have been the clear cut way to go. I would have dealt with one of the men this way, he would have gotten a false sense of power over a woman he did not want in a position of power over him (me-court mandated councilor) and feeling the heady rush of dominance over me/justification of his original postion about beating women, even subtly, he would have gone home and beaten his wife, maybe that night, maybe not that night... but eventually, he would have physically manifested his power issues over his most desirous victim.

Anyway... that rather wordy example is to show you that.. you might think you know what you are doing.... you might MEAN well... but don't go cutting out someone's appendix until you have finished med school (and don't go around blathering about those who have actually taken the time to receive the proper training for the procedure)... you might miss and cut out their liver (or think you have successfully cut out and fixed the appendix, only to find out that your 'patient' later died of staff infection).

Now stop showing us your ass and think about the fact that you might be wrong.. well intentioned but wrong.

< Message edited by puella -- 4/12/2007 3:06:04 PM >

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 75

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 3:01:35 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

> one, are you a licensed ......anything (meaning do you have > some sort of degree in working with abused persons)

A license is just a piece of paper. They are often easy to get.
They mean very little. Experience and knowledge are
more important than a piece of paper hanging on the wall.
Most people I have counselled to tell I helped them more
in a few hours than all the psychiatrists they have seen their
entire life. I have a pretty good working knowledge of psychiatry and psychology. But I have a few things most psychiatrists and psychologists don't have: empathy, understanding, non-judgmentalness, and an ability to communicate with people who are unable to communicate with others.

You know people make a big deal of predator's and all those psychos in the world. We make huge deal that one should take all those precautions to protect themelves.... but in truth such events are rather rare.

But when I read the above... I see something that is even more alarming. Its a sad state of affairs when anyone buys this Bullshit that is being sold.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 76

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 3:03:29 PM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

Question: Say you are wrong. Humor me here.

You did this with so and so woman who is raving completely about how wonderfully this worked. A year later she is crashing completely and blames your "therapy" on the reason why she is now in worse shape. What recourse does she have? How would she report you to investigate whether or not you actually did harm her? What if she feels you went over a line with her that should not be crossed? What authority do you answer to who will either commend you on your successes or administer an appropriate form of disciplinary action?

If someone is interested in this form of therapy how does one know you administer it? How does one check your references of successes? Is there any third party that will verify anything that will make a potential patient feel assured that you can help? How do these women even come to know about this type of therapy in the first place. You said you don't suggest it in a previous thread so they knew about this through...what?

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 77

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 3:04:21 PM

spanklette

Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline

I have a hard time believing that you have been involved in any statistical sampling of psychologists or therapists. Maybe I am making the same generalizations as you...except none of your posts have made sense thus far...why should I expect them to now?

I am at a loss for words as to how you can possibly believe any of this junk you are trying to put out there.

And, as for Phd's being the least likely people able to deal with emotional issues...obviously you missed what I was trying to communicate to you.

Here, I will say it slowly:

Some...people...are...smart...enough...to...know...that...they...
are...not...equipped...to...deal...with...a...particular...problem.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 78

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 3:06:29 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Now stop showing us your ass and think about the fact that you might be wrong.. well intentioned but wrong.

puella.. you always strike me as very well balance and intelligent. You also well HOT!

but ... as much as you are well intentioned to shed some light into whimp's narrowed and narcistic ego... me thinks it is wasted effort for him

However, I do appreciate that your words are of benefit of those reading it besides such self-absorbed individuals.

BRAVO BEAUTIFUL

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to puella)

Post #: 79

RE: What I find hard to understand. - 4/12/2007 3:06:31 PM

WhipTheHip

Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25
You really need to step away from the computer. Your claims are laughable not to
mention just plain ridiculous. Get a clue, dude, no one is buying.

Unlike others here, I have to say this for you: You're logic is indisputable.
You got me.

--New ideas are always ridiculed. Then they are labled dangerous. Finally,
they are so obvious, they go without saying. The herd is often wrong.

_____________________________

(in reply to bandit25)

Post #: 80

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