RE: Abused into submission

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MasterFireMaam -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:39:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord rape was an introduction. Into sex, into submission, into something outside the vanilla world. Rape isn't an introduction to anything but negative things. What we do is not negative. Please don't imply that rape is a "hazing" event for us. Master Fire

spanklette -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:50:02 PM)
It's not that I find it hard to share...I just don't find it necessary. And you stated it right there in your post, the reason I don't find it necessary..."I feel so bad for those poor girls." I don't need anyone's pity.

SusanofO -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 1:51:48 PM)
daddysprop247: I think you really may have something there, in your comment. I do work w/abused and neglected UMs, and usually the "quieter types" can receive more of it. Even if a "tougher kid" still recieves it, if they stand up for themselves, they may receive a lot less, in many cases. Although a truly crazy "caregiver" will indeed attack at will, and to whomever they feel like venting their spleen on, it appears to be easier for them to do this w/ submissive types of UMs, no doubt about it, from what I've seen and read. I don't think anyone can ever fault any UM for not trying to fight it. I mean, most adults are what, like 3 times their size, at least? Plus, they are dependent on adults for food, shelter, emotional attention, etc. A person cannot "rid themselves" of their abusive background. They can only adjust, and learn to deal, IMO. Everyone in life, has their own sort of "cross to bear", IMO. For some people, this includes an abusive background. I see no reason why these folks cannot have a satisfying relationship in bdsm-land. I mean, love is love, right? Hell, I am looking forward to having one myself, aren't I? (she said, perched high on her pristine mountain-top, of having had no-abuse, in her own childhood). I guess (please, no flames for this remark!) I see this whole area as along the lines of: Are homosexual relationships, for instance, inhernently "wrong"? Well, I suppose if you are a fundamentalist "Christian", or something, then maybe they are. So to the OP, I'd ask: Are you? (or the equivalent)? Only you can really decide, and sometimes it takes some "mulling over" of the area, IMO, first. I do think it is an intelligent, and not unusual question, though, I do. And no doubt it comes from a place of genuine concern for abused submissives. - Susan

KuffedKitten -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 2:14:26 PM)
quote: am not submissive because i was abused, i was abused because i was submissive. This is something I cna personally relate to on several levels. I am a survivor of many things , as I do not wish to fully get into details of my past openly I will simply state every avenue of abuse has taken it's toll upon me at one time or another. I was never one to fight back..taking all that came my way willingly..yet not a doormat at the same time. I suppose you could say I felt I deserved everything I recieved , though in time I would relaize that this was not the case..but being young and naive I didn't question it. I have been submissive all my life I truly believe even when I didn't know what it meant..hence possibly the reason I was such an easy target for so many in my life. Now that I know what is acceptable and what is not..it has only made me stronger..though the path thus far has been anything but easy..then again I wouldn't have it any other way. --kuffed

SusanofO -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 2:31:18 PM)
Abusive parents and adults have a "loose screw", and also can pick up on a kid's "radar" IMO. A submissive kid can be just plain "easier" to vent one's spleen on, much of the time. From what I have seen, these folks can go on to healthy relationships, and may have a higher capacity for things like compassion and empathy toward others, (although that is partly an individual thing, too, as far as having it, IMO). I mean they might have a few "issues" to over some, but we all do, don't we? I don't know that many seriously abused people who go through life being completely unaware that they may need some help to overcome an abusive past (although amazingly, some don't seem to need any, if much of it, but of course some do need some and maybe a lot). It depends on the person to a large degree, IMO, from what I know, anyway. I've been in therapy before, it just wasn't for that particular "issue". I am not saying there aren't probably very seriousy screwed up folks out there, due to past abuse, either. I am saying I truly don't think one can generalize, and individuals should be evaluated on an individual basis, as far as being good "partner material", IMO. I mean, I have an "issue" I am working to overcome, it's just not related to childhood abuse. But it could still screw w/my ability (possibly) to have a satisfying D/s relationship, maybe. - Susan

Devilslilsister -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 2:52:28 PM)
quote: i am not submissive because i was abused, i was abused because i was submissive. i really like this quote too and think that it is the under lying key. Hits the nail on the head! For me, i've been abused every which way is imaginable. As a kid i was lucky enough to be able to sit on the sidelines while i watched my brother go flying across rooms. (said sarcastically) i never considered my stepfather emotionally abusive and i never considered the things that are not to be talked about abusive (mainly because they were pretended to have not happened) i didnt consider losing my virginity rape either. After my childhood, i've been through the ringer. The last "occurance" in my life actually put me way off on BDSM. The two in my mind were way too close for comfort. i took about a 4 year sabbatical from any interest in this area. Yet that being said long before anything "happened" i now can see that i've always had an interest. i just thought i was wierd. Really wierd. When i was writing a book at the age of 10 and it came down to people getting whipped.... i wierded myself out and i destroyed the book. i've always had a fascination with slavery and even the nazis camps. As a child i read almost anything i could get my hands on that dealt in those two areas. Like prop - i thought myself unlucky with circumstances and absolutetly wierd...... and i think i would still have submissive tendencies, just with out all the baggage.

kiyari -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 3:30:13 PM)
As one only lately come (still largely lurking here) to this place, I have gotten this same impression regarding, in particular, the more masochistic of [f:] bottoms/submissives/slaves. At least, this is what my impression has come to be, after reading the posts in here for a bit. Seems to me, that perhaps re-enacting the abuse, with subsequent atonement [the aftercare] is a therapy that either works, or dulls the pain. Sad, but if it works, then for my money, it beats pharmaceuticals on every count. Just saying, that I am in agreement with CuriousLord's observations, from perspective of a bystander listening in. Now, here is my question for the Other Side: [...well, not not so much a question, more like musing out loud...] I seriously, deeply, genuinely DO NOT UNDERSTAND... what is the 'turn on' [or more kindly: motivation/reward] for those males who find > beating, > mind-f-cking, > BREAKING [gah!], and generally [just my opinion, I readily admit] > abusing [were it not 'consensual'] ...their female partners/property??? [Is it just one of those 'a guy thing' [:'(] bits?] No offense intended, and I mean this in all sincerity. As one whose reflex is to be a knee-jerk defender of the PERCEIVED under-dog in any situation, this is truly a dynamic I do not GREP [outside of 'abuse']. Apologies if this constitutes a thread-hijack. Again, no offense intended to any in here.

KnightofMists -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 3:46:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 i am not submissive because i was abused, i was abused because i was submissive. think about that. kinda makes sense doesn't it? for some reason it took me until the age of 21 to come to that realization. would i have been so submissive had i not been abused early in life? of course, i would just be a submissive without an airport hangar's worth of baggage. On it's surface.. it's a good quote.... but there is an implication that is gained from the quote that I think is not accurate. "I was abused because I was submissive" equates to "I am submissive therefore I will be abused" I consider it likely that many submissive individuals maybe at an increased risk of being abused. However, just because a person is submissive doesn't equate that they will be abused or that they are going to even to allow it to happen. Being submissive doesn't equate to disregarding their own personal Well-Being. But, for individuals that are abused they very much compromise their own personal Well-Being. Many submissives are very much well aware of their own personal boundaries that protect their Well-Being. They will not allow themselves to compromise on these boundaries that shift from living a healthy fulfilling life to an abused life. I am very troubled when anyone considers it appropriate to be submissive also equates to allowing oneself to be abused. Abused individuals are person's that fail to protect the boundaries that maintain a healthy Well-Being. They are submissive and they can be Dominant personalities as well. "I wasn't abused because I was submissive... I was abused because I failed to protect my Well-Being" this to me is a more accurate quote.

amiciaN -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 4:12:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 there is a truth i've shared many times in the past when this subject has come up, and will share again now: i am not submissive because i was abused, i was abused because i was submissive. think about that. kinda makes sense doesn't it? for some reason it took me until the age of 21 to come to that realization. would i have been so submissive had i not been abused early in life? of course, i would just be a submissive without an airport hangar's worth of baggage. my childhood abuser was so attracted to me because he sensed...as predators do...my deep submissive nature. he didn't want a challenge. he didn't want a struggle or a fight. he knew that he could take me easily, use me up, then when i no longer became desireable due to puberty, toss me aside and play the role of normal uncle, without anyone ever being the wiser. because he knew i would never stop him, and that i would never tell. unfortunately that wasn't my only experience with abuse in life, as i got older my submissive nature repeatedly got me into insane, scary, damaging situations. it was my discovery of the D/s lifestyle, and of what it meant to be submissive, that saved me. i finally realized that i was not just some hapless, hopeless freak of nature with the world's worst luck, but that i actually had a place in the world and that there were others like me. finding a Master, and especially the wonderful one i did, turned my submissiveness into a thing of beauty and value, whereas in the past it had been nothing but a burden and source of shame and self-disgust. Thank you daddyprop247 for such an eloquent post, especially the sections in bold. I did not find D/s until I was 43. At that time, I had been in an emotionally and verbally abusive relationship for over 18 years and it was not my first experience with abuse. It was discovering D/s that made me see the difference between being dominated and being domineered. In my opinion, domination comes from a place of strength, whereas domineering behavior usually masks deep insecurity. One 'bullies' someone into submitting, the other inspires one into it. Bullies are inconsistent, those Dominants with long-term relationships seldom are. I flatly denied that my marriage was abusive for years. It was by understanding my submissive nature and that was not only ok to be submissive, but that it was valued, nurtured and protected by others that sowed the seeds of self-esteem that enabled me to leave. Never again will I mistake being bullied and coerced as being dominated. I have a need to be dominated, but no one ever, ever deserves or needs to be abused. This obviously is my opinion based on highly personal experience. Other opinions may vary, but it seems to be one with much in common with daddysprop247 and other abuse survivors.

slaveish -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 4:18:49 PM)
Fast Reply to the OP Many therapists say that when one enters into any sort of relationship as an adult (or young adult) one is trying to repair a relationship from the past. It is not a completely accurate statement but it is accurate enough to be a part of psychological understanding. There are those adults who are naturally submissive who have been abused in the past, and perhaps because she was submissive she felt she should not / could not fight back or "tell". How to help in the future? Therapy. Counseling. Love without condition. At least that's what worked for me.

TigerNINTails -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 4:24:26 PM)
I've been reading here for a bit... And I personally have a handle on most of the statements and responses here regarding this thread. The reason I would say I have a handle is because though I'm a switch, an owner, a Master and trainer myself, I also was abused as a child... But there's something else I want to point out and address... "I was abused because I was submissive" equates to "I am submissive therefore I will be abused" I agree, and disagree. I disagree that it "equates" as equating puts it on identical footing. I agree that it can be taken as such. But more so, I agree with it, if it were put into light of running "parallel", which is next to, but not within the same statement. Because on the surface, for her, what it means is precisely how she stated it, but for others, they may think that they are "opening themselves" to abuse if they do engage in submissive tendencies and activities. But this isn't always the case... I do agree, that people in general are somewhat in tune with the natures of those around us. We can determine rather quickly, whether someone has a truly Dominant, submissive, Toppy, Controlling or Serving, Submissive or Bottom personality. When it comes to my personal abuse, I was the "brother being tossed across rooms" though I'm an only child. It was my initial step-monster that was the inflictor of the abuse... It wasn't just being tossed... There were many different devices used, to beat me into 'doing the right thing.' All in all, as I've gotten older, I've strived to never come full circle. I've had a couple close calls. I've taken the steps of personal responsibility and removed myself from those relationships. I have never felt the need to submit, because I was beaten, though I can only imagine that the way I was treated as a child is similar to what it felt for a "real" slave back in the days when not one person saw something wrong with owning human property. This might have had something to do with a semi-submissive nature later in life. I've been practicing BDSM and M/s principles, and felt a calling for it since I was 12 years old, but I was experiencing the abusive nature of the ste-dad since I was 3, until I was 9... When my mother, after he had gone to jail for attacking me with the handle of a bullwhip (hitting me with it, I wasn't sexually abused, though for women and girls I can see the differences) and then started up again after about a year of being out of jail, finally said "I've had enough... Jaime Miguel, pack your stuff, we're moving..." and we did exactly that. We left and never looked back... Now since then, I've also strived to control my anger issues, and so forth, and I've found that being on both the Top and bottom of it, both sides help. It's possible, that though these girls might well have been submissive in nature before hand, they could well be seeking more intense and strict relationships, to overcome shame, to breach denial, to slap their abuse in the face indirectly and squash it, through the very practice of being "forced" as slaves are want to believe, to do the things which they initially felt ashamed of... But, to do them with someone they trust, and build up joy and enjoyment out of it, rather than fear, and illness over it. I know of several women in the lifestyle that are edge players... They've all been raped. One has even been knifed... Directly after her rape... She still enjoys those sorts of scenes... She has also owned a slave, who is also her husband for 14 years... Is there a direct correlation between the submissive and the abused? Likely... But is it because they were submissive to begin with, or did they become submissive because of it? I think (though I'm no professional) it to be the former... That they were submissive to begin with, and that sent some sort of signal to another... This opened that door for them to step in and become the terror, which they are now overcoming. I am a switch... I'm an owner of one slave, and have two others in training at the moment, undecided as to whether I'd accept either as a permanent addition... They are of all age ranges and one is even a professed lezbian by choice, not alignment (this is an important distinction) but they are both bi... They have both been abused, either as children or in their adult life... My older girl isn't a victim of child hood sexual abuse, but has since the age of 16 (or before then even) been attracted to the lifestyle, and edgeplay, though she was raped before she had her first edgeplay scene. Edgeplay, for those uninitiated, is simulating the situations only the darkest recesses of our psyche generate. The kidnapping, rape, gangrape, etc. These are sensitive and edgey topics, though for me, they are fun... S&M falls into the edgeplay category a lot... In any case, there are many reasons this could be, but I'm hoping that somewhere in there I've shed some more light on it. I do believe that there is a correlation between submissive natures and abuse... At least to the degree that submissives experience it. But, I'd say that the abuser would do it regardless of the ease with which they could. Especially in molestation cases. We're talking mass differences that make all the difference. We're also referring to here, the ability to have had many times the amount of time to think about implementing the "plan" as it were. Make no mistake... The abuser is not doing it spontaneously. It has been planned out in detail, at least in his/her mind... When it comes to that sort of abuse... For physical, like in my case, it comes down to the fact that he was enacting what he experienced as a child, and there was no plan, perse... Just him getting drunk, mean and angry and there you have it. I think I've taken enough time and space... Your Turn

kyraofMists -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 4:33:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord rape was an introduction. Into sex, into submission, into something outside the vanilla world. Rape isn't an introduction to anything but negative things. What we do is not negative. Please don't imply that rape is a "hazing" event for us. Master Fire I am glad someone else caught this too. That someone would even think that rape is an introduction into BDSM just boggles my mind. I have experienced both and I can say the two could not be farther apart if they tried. Being raped stripped me of my power. Being a slave to him enhances my power. Knight's kyra

amiciaN -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 4:34:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: daddysprop247 i am not submissive because i was abused, i was abused because i was submissive. think about that. kinda makes sense doesn't it? for some reason it took me until the age of 21 to come to that realization. would i have been so submissive had i not been abused early in life? of course, i would just be a submissive without an airport hangar's worth of baggage. On it's surface.. it's a good quote.... but there is an implication that is gained from the quote that I think is not accurate. "I was abused because I was submissive" equates to "I am submissive therefore I will be abused" I consider it likely that many submissive individuals maybe at an increased risk of being abused. However, just because a person is submissive doesn't equate that they will be abused or that they are going to even to allow it to happen. Being submissive doesn't equate to disregarding their own personal Well-Being. But, for individuals that are abused they very much compromise their own personal Well-Being. Many submissives are very much well aware of their own personal boundaries that protect their Well-Being. They will not allow themselves to compromise on these boundaries that shift from living a healthy fulfilling life to an abused life. I am very troubled when anyone considers it appropriate to be submissive also equates to allowing oneself to be abused. Abused individuals are person's that fail to protect the boundaries that maintain a healthy Well-Being. They are submissive and they can be Dominant personalities as well. "I wasn't abused because I was submissive... I was abused because I failed to protect my Well-Being" this to me is a more accurate quote. Your revised quote seems dangerously close to blaming the victim, imho. In my childhood, I was abused but my 2 sisters were not. When I was married and the children misbehaved, I was the one in trouble rather than the child. Yes, I am also grateful to this day that the children were not abused, but I still asked, "Why me?" What I see in daddysprop247's statement as a survivor is some glimmer of understanding regarding the unanswerable question of why the abuse happened to one individual and not another. As I stated in my previous post, it was understanding my submissive nature that gave me the tools and support I needed to break free of abuse, not something that provided justification for it to continue. Again, this is my opinion, ymmv.

MsParados -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 5:01:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam These aren't stats for just BDSM. They apply to women across the board. You will find that the numbers change because the sample size changes (hence giving better results), but it's fairly reliable to say that more women than most think have been abused in some fashion. Men, too. We are not any better or any worse than any other subset of society. Master Fire Exactly. I was part of a team that collect data for the CDC about woman and abusive relationships about 7 years back and the amount of violence in intimate relationships is increasing. So of course more woman in the lifestyle have been abused simple because more abuse is accuring. But I don't think that programs someone to be predisposed to this lifestyle or anyother alt sexual orientation. http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/dvp/DatingViolence.htm

MariaB -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 5:05:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyraofMists quote: ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord rape was an introduction. Into sex, into submission, into something outside the vanilla world. Rape isn't an introduction to anything but negative things. What we do is not negative. Please don't imply that rape is a "hazing" event for us. Master Fire I am glad someone else caught this too. That someone would even think that rape is an introduction into BDSM just boggles my mind. I have experienced both and I can say the two could not be farther apart if they tried. Being raped stripped me of my power. Being a slave to him enhances my power. Knight's kyra Ditto to that. At first I thought I was reading into something that was not there. I read this over and over wondering if I was missing something! If rape is an introduction into BDSM then BDSM must = abuse. If someone entered into BDSM because of past abuse then they are in the wrong place because it would be a form of self harm by proxy.

KnightofMists -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 5:08:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: amiciaN Your revised quote seems dangerously close to blaming the victim, imho. In my childhood, I was abused but my 2 sisters were not. When I was married and the children misbehaved, I was the one in trouble rather than the child. Yes, I am also grateful to this day that the children were not abused, but I still asked, "Why me?" What I see in daddysprop247's statement as a survivor is some glimmer of understanding regarding the unanswerable question of why the abuse happened to one individual and not another. As I stated in my previous post, it was understanding my submissive nature that gave me the tools and support I needed to break free of abuse, not something that provided justification for it to continue. Again, this is my opinion, ymmv. yes it does and sometimes the victim shares responsibility for their own abuse and sometimes they do not.... Since I believe that in the end as Adults we are hold a responsibility for ourselves. This is not to say that some individuals are not raised in a situation where they never learn the necessary skills to protect one's Well-Being. However, their comes a point that what occurs within childhood is no longer an acceptable reason for being an abusive situation but becomes an excuse for not accepting self-responsibility and continue the patterns of abuse. Any individual that I have met that have moved passed abuse or abusive situations have taken hold of the responsibility of protecting their Well-Being. For some they are fortunate to learn this from young to adult. For some.. this learned with alot pain as an adult. I will also add that this doesn't equate that some individuals will had over responsibility to another to protect their Well-Being. Sometimes this the responsible thing for these individuals to do. But the trick is for them to know who to hand such responsibility to and/or they need to be able to protect their Well-Being in the first place. Else, they are just as likely to perpetuate the cycle of abuse as they are to end it.

HopeLost -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 5:12:31 PM)
i was abused in a somewhat harsh manner as a child. sexual, physical, mental, emotional and, it didnt predispose me to be submissive. in fact it turned me away from being submissive and i became very domineering and hard and mean. now i am spending time trying to relearn the real me and take off some of the armour. i dont know if this helped at all but there you go.

TigerNINTails -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 5:24:29 PM)
I'm glad that someone else responded to that revised quote, I didn't catch it till after I had already began addressing the parallel that he had brought up as an identical. My view on the rest of that subject, where it comes down to failing to protect your own well-being... I put it to anyone... You're 50 lbs... You're 6, 7, 10, 12 years of age. Your attacker is your Uncle... Weighing it at 185 lbs. and 37 years of age and 5'10"... What are you going to do about it? Short answer to this... "Absolutely Nothing!" Why? You're UNABLE TO PROTECT YOUR OWN WELLBEING at this point. Now, I will point out, telling someone about the assault after the fact is NOT PROTECTING YOUR OWN WELLBEING from what has already occured. I'm not yelling, simply emphasizing. it's simply being sure it doesn't happen again. IF... Oh, and this happens A LOT... IF you are even believed. THIS is what many submissives fear too, and what any victim of any assault fears. "What if I tell on the person, but noone believes me? What if they ridicule me, and dismiss it like it never happened? Then what if they come back, angry that I would say something and do it again, only worse?" If someone's never been in a situation (as I have) where they are outmassed, outgunned and outskilled in defending themselves, they'd know... There's no way to protect your own well-being, therefore, there's no failure in doing so. To not do one thing, does not equate in failure to do another. She might not have protected her own well being, but then again... She didn't have the tools available for her to do so... I mean, seriously... No one ever suspects it's going to happen to them, until it happens. To state one failed to protect themselves adds just one more stigma to what they already feel ashamed about. Stop it already. There are some situations that you can not help, nor change, and the fact she realizes it, and isn't using it as a crutch, but rather a tool to recovery is something awesome in it's own right. When those that can't help themselves in the moment discover something like that, they can send it to others in the hopes it will help them as well. She isn't enabling a crutch, by saying that "I was abused because I'm submissive." She's stating that her nature made her an easy target. If not her, someone else. But this person was in her life. Though I'm thinking also that whether she was submissive or not, it would have happened, and that's something else that KnightofMist was pointing out as well... For example, I'm slightly (only slightly [;)]) sadistic... I think this might stem from an understanding of what I went through as a child, but I'm not entirely sure. But I agree with that, but I don't either agree with the revised quote, as it places the blame on the victim, rather where it should be placed... On the predator. She didn't fail to protect her own well being. She didn't know how. Until someone is empowered, they'll "fail" at a lot of things. No one is an expert at anything right off, and this applies to instincts for self-defense as well. I'm not flaming here by the way, I've read other posts from KnightofMists and I think he's right on with some things... But I have to agree, this last post was... hmmm... A little too harsh on the victim, considering that child-hood abuse is the issue here, as it pertains to submission, and daddysprop247's quote comes from her childhood. I think again, I've gone off and babbled a storm... Your Turn

KnightofMists -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 5:27:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HopeLost now i am spending time trying to relearn the real me and take off some of the armour. i dont know if this helped at all but there you go. your story is something that is all to common... How often to people put some sort of armour on that protects themselves from the world around them. The unfortunate part is that in protecting oneself from the world around them.. they are also covering the person they are. So much so.. they they can even lose sight of who that person is. It can be a very painful process to remove that armour. I wish you well in your efforts

amiciaN -> RE: Abused into submission (4/12/2007 5:30:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists yes it does and sometimes the victim shares responsibility for their own abuse and sometimes they do not.... Since I believe that in the end as Adults we are hold a responsibility for ourselves. This is not to say that some individuals are not raised in a situation where they never learn the necessary skills to protect one's Well-Being. However, their comes a point that what occurs within childhood is no longer an acceptable reason for being an abusive situation but becomes an excuse for not accepting self-responsibility and continue the patterns of abuse. Any individual that I have met that have moved passed abuse or abusive situations have taken hold of the responsibility of protecting their Well-Being. For some they are fortunate to learn this from young to adult. For some.. this learned with alot pain as an adult. I will also add that this doesn't equate that some individuals will had over responsibility to another to protect their Well-Being. Sometimes this the responsible thing for these individuals to do. But the trick is for them to know who to hand such responsibility to and/or they need to be able to protect their Well-Being in the first place. Else, they are just as likely to perpetuate the cycle of abuse as they are to end it. Thank you for the clarification as it does explain that you are not blaming the victim inappropriately. There does come a point where the abused must take responsibility for their own well being, once they see the abuse for what it is and have the tools, support and skills necessary to change it. Without those elements in place though, the abused frequently go back to the same abusive situation. On average, it takes most abused S/O's at least 3 attempts before they make the break for good. In my opinion, the abused is never responsible for the actual abuse, but they can share a portion of the blame for it continuing. My opinion as always, ymmv.

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