RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness

RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (Full Version)

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proudsub -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 10:35:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO Hehe. proudsub you are a smart lady. You Stanford grads are are all the same, IMO. HUGs![:)] [:D] - Susan Thanks Susan, but i wasn't smart enough to communicate my desires with Hubby until after He caught me cheating.[&o]

lapresence -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a delicious (4/13/2007 10:38:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hrafnkel At first I thought that you were joking with this, and that you were using humor to agree with me. But my girl insists she's certain you're actually serious. So, alright. First, I'm not so certain 'logic' is a word you want to use. There are no rhetorical arguements in the opinion I stated except for a very straightforward arguement by definition. If you freely take a vow, youre basically committing to keeping it on your word and honor. If you choose otherwise without seeking release from the commitment, or evade via deception, then you're being morally weak. Its not really my definition, unless you believe I force people to get married. These aren't really my definitions, though., I think part of the problem is a confusion in what I mean by the phrase 'self respect'. It's not the same as self interest, which is really I think what the politicans and spouses you seem to be defending are acting out of. I also find it curious that you interpret my statements to apply to women who cheat and not men. I do have a tendency to refer to submissives in the feminine, and I should, I confess be more careful with that, as it generally alludes to personal experience and not a deeper view. But in no place do I say 'what is morally right for a woman'. I say whats morally right for people who take on a moral obligation. That is simply keeping it. But your final premise was simply golden. Just for comedic shock value I think it's brilliant. That cheating spouses should feel good about themselves because politicians lie, too. Kudos for coming up with a proposition thats simply too preposterous to easily be confronted on any rational level. I think you are reading way more into my response than was intended. I was simply stating that one statement doesn't necessarily logically lead to the other. You made sweeping statements. And I don't believe that many things are absolutes. You said that it would not be difficult to dominate someone who was morally and mentally weak; I was attacking the assumptions you made and illustrating the weakness of the statement. (I was not defending politicans. In fact I was poking fun.) I disagree with you as far as things being so black and white, but that really wasn't the issue at all. I was having fun. I like mental puzzles. You would find me morally reprehensible in that I have had sexual relations with a married woman. But things are never so cut and dry. That makes me morally weak. However, that also makes my Sir morally weak. I guarantee that while I am a submissive, I don't submit to just anyone. Many have tried and failed. And I can't imagine my Sir submitting to anyone. LOL. I know it must have happened when he was younger because he's been in the military, but still. I don't think he would be easy to dominate. Perhaps that is an easier way to illustrate how I think your sweeping statement doesn't work. Good luck to you, may you never face moral dilemmas that open your eyes to the harsh reality that there are shades of gray.

SusanofO -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 10:39:04 AM)
proudsub: I know, I just thought it was nice that you introduced the POV of a female in such a situation (as it seems to be relatively ignored by the OP (to me), but maybe not intentionally, and I am possibly just reading into it, as an insinuation of the OP's, that men are the only ones who make this kind of decision. If he thinks so, he is deluded, IMO. - Susan

lapresence -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 10:42:08 AM)
Thank you very much for the compliment. I do try and be respectful. It doesn't always happen, I'm afraid. But the intent is there. I have also very much admired your posts on this thread. I think you have done a lot to moderate the list and keep people more level-headed about this particular topic. So thank you, Susan.

SusanofO -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 10:45:46 AM)
I actually do think you're being even-handed (and intelligently logical), as far as comments. You can have a 'different' POV, IMO, than someone else (or from those who seem more in the "norm"). It can be a truly "hot topic" - but you already know that. There is room for more than one POV in the world, if we are simply discussing it philosophically, IMO. It is a message board, and it is a discussion, after all. I don't see many situations in "black and white" mostly either, but think everyone has a right to decide what is best - for themselves (which I think you probably do as well). Good luck to all who comment, and try to discuss it. I seriously do need a nap, and am going to bed. Happy week-end, everyone (it's here! It's here!) - Susan

lockedaway -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 10:51:14 AM)
You can attempt to justify cheating and the facilitation of cheating to your heart's content. Things ARE pretty black and white though. If you have an open relationship, great. If you have cuckolded a partner and that is part of their submission to you, that's great too. But for a spouse to learn that their spouse has been cheating is a miserable experience. People may say that they live in a loveless marriage and maybe they do. Maybe they stay together out of financial convenience or for child rearing. That isn't the point. Before someone takes a lover outside the marriage, the other spouse should be shown the respect of being informed and having the opportunity to find a lover themselves rather than just be taken advantage of. That's it...very black and white indeed. It is nothing more than the concept of fairness. That is why having someone submit that is married or submitting to someone who is married is not delicious (or at least it shouldn't be), because it affronts VERY basic concepts of fairness. Let's also take a brief look at the interloper. That is a weak person indeed to capitalize on someone's marriage for their own needs. Any one of us might find ourselves in the position of being cheated on....do you look forward to it? Are you going to be happy if it happens to you?

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 10:51:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: amuzingtoyou To me, when a single or unattached person seeks out someone who is attached, it is because they are unable to emotionally commit to another person. Nice perception or on the subbies part perhaps a lack of substancial commitment from the hubbies Being the bread winner will not necessarily feed what the subbies want and fantasize about. Sometimes no string attachment is more easily said until they realize the like the intoxicating elixer and develop an obsession for it. The key then is controling the obsessive subbies and keeping their desires at bay. It is in effect and easy out. I do not place moral judgement on how people live their lives. Whether you are with someone who is cheating or not, i don't really care. So what...call Me an adulterous one...I advocate enjoying hedonistic pleasures through BDSM..it works for Me... It is interesting to see the private messages of support and those of being critcal. One thing is if My postings border on sophmoric one would think that those people would not read them and have beeter placed energies yet find themselves active in the preceeding discussions... However think about what it is you get out of the relationship. Sexual satisfaction? Anyone can get laid.. sexuality is between the legs where sensuality is between the ears.... My sexual satisaction has always bordered on that of marathon proportions...sessions last an average of 6-8 hour...now I am sure some will accuse Me of grandious self promotion...fine...I have references...[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m10.gif[/image] Do you ever go deeper than that? Yes have and will.... What about emotional connection? Yes have and will...yet as I have posted in the past and now have been told I can not supply previous links to previous postings by mz mod..domination is possible without emotion... Some people prefer being with married people because they don't ever have to emotionaly connect. I actually have dealt with many married women that do feel that someone married is safier as it will not transcend into something they can not handlke emotionally as to the legal or existing limitations of another married person. In a way it is safe for them. They have their sexual time together..and part. If that is all you want to have out of a relationship, you are missing a great deal in my opinion. you have good insight in My perception Ross ©º°¨¨°º©

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 10:56:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lapresence Have you ever thought that maybe they are in a bad relationship and that person needs support and love? In my situation, I am first friend, then sister (sub), then lover. I am very committed to her, and I hope that one day the marriage will be completely over, rather than the sham that it is. I want her to be happy, no matter how that ends up. For now, she is not, and I will give her as much as she will allow me to. Quite often they are but many have that escape clause of using the "married" card. I had one subbie that actually enjoyed flaunting the fact that she was married and fooling around to the point of introducing Me AS her husband to her husbands known friends and taking Me to her favorite haunts for lunches and such.. Then as an actor rehersing a play.... Then wanting Me to set her up in biz as a bondage slut for cams so she could make money letting Me do all the things she enjoyed to her.... she is still on here and if she ever read the forums instead of seeking her next thrill..yes it is you I am talking about fuckmeat..hope you are doing well...[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m10.gif[/image] Ross ©º°¨¨°º©

SusanofO -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 10:58:17 AM)
lockedaway: That is true in many (but not all) cases, IMO. And in any case, it is your POV. IMO, nobody else can dictate everyone's POV - especially, perhaps in matters like this. For a detailed discussion on this topic, I suggest a cool, detached look at the CIAW (Cheating Is Always Wrong) thread from a few weeks ago. It is an eye-opener, IMO (although it is 27 pages long, as I recall, if that gives you any idea of how wrapped up emotionally, in this topic, many can get). - Susan

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 10:58:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: amuzingtoyou lapresence, I was speaking specifically about the single person who seeks out a married person. Not about the married person. People cheat for a variety of reasons..that is not what i was addressing. I was addressing the OP who says he preferes married submissives. Hope that clears that up. missi. I prefer the married as they seem to know what they want. I HAVE been sought out by married and hence a taste of the forbidden taboo is admittedly enjoyable to Me. Interesting to have a subbie orgasm 20 times within a half hour through gspot inner wall massage when the hubbie apparently doesn't even go down on them.... Just call Me morally bankrupt. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m10.gif[/image] Ross ©º°¨¨°º©

akisha -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 11:04:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69 How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness to a woman that is not getting what she needs at home? I have found the eagarness and willingness to serve and please Me is well rewarded and makes training very enjoyable for Both. Ross ©º°¨¨°º© So you're encouraging people that cheat? Doesn't say much about the submissives character or yours for that matter really. Personally i think if someone is not happy in the relationship they are in then they should end it and find what they need in life. Cheating just hurts everyone involved,

lockedaway -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 11:06:35 AM)
I disagree with you. It is not a question of point of view. It is an issue of fairness. If the other spouse approves or accepts then it is fair and then go have your fun. Have you ever considered that many of the cheaters out there don't tell their spouse because they don't want their spouse to be doing the same thing they are? Do you not find that absolutely repugnant?

lapresence -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 11:07:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lockedaway You can attempt to justify cheating and the facilitation of cheating to your heart's content. Things ARE pretty black and white though. If you have an open relationship, great. If you have cuckolded a partner and that is part of their submission to you, that's great too. But for a spouse to learn that their spouse has been cheating is a miserable experience. People may say that they live in a loveless marriage and maybe they do. Maybe they stay together out of financial convenience or for child rearing. That isn't the point. Before someone takes a lover outside the marriage, the other spouse should be shown the respect of being informed and having the opportunity to find a lover themselves rather than just be taken advantage of. That's it...very black and white indeed. It is nothing more than the concept of fairness. That is why having someone submit that is married or submitting to someone who is married is not delicious (or at least it shouldn't be), because it affronts VERY basic concepts of fairness. Let's also take a brief look at the interloper. That is a weak person indeed to capitalize on someone's marriage for their own needs. Any one of us might find ourselves in the position of being cheated on....do you look forward to it? Are you going to be happy if it happens to you? Someone else listed a few very good reasons early on in this thread. The situation I am in is another. The woman I am personally acquainted with his filed for divorce twice. Her husband claimed they were still sleeping together, so the judge threw the case out. They haven't slept together in 4 years (she sleeps upstairs and he sleeps downstairs), he has an illegitimate child that goes to the same daycare as her own. I hope I can give her some happiness. Am I facilitating cheating? Hell, yes. Guilty as charged. I happen to not be the jealous type, and if someone I am with feels the need to go sleep with someone, I'm fine with that. If we can have a threesome, even better..... [;)]

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a delicious (4/13/2007 11:09:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hrafnkel I agree with both playful one and twice happy, but I have a further question. As a dominant, if a woman is willing to be deceptive, sneaky, break solemn vows, etc, what possible thrill could you get from having her on her knees? Well besides having her under My request for deep throat while I see the submission in her eyes? That look that is worth a hundered wank offs...that look of yes I am a slut and I will do WHATEVER you want... you mean besides that? Mindset control...control through instructions and tasks? The obsession they have now that they have found a new world that they never knew and will be disruptive in their schedule and will leave their hubbies bed to be down on all fours with head down and ass up in the air? I guess I might find a few thrills here and there... If she has so little respect for herself that she's willing to behave this way, then where is the thrill in it? Domination needs no emotion nor does it need any self respect for the subbie for it to be domination...the means of controling mentally, physically and spiriually thru text, voice, smell, touch..coming on command by mere sggestion of visitation of previous sessions... The thrill is mental as well as physical. Is that the highest amount of self respect you can muster? Any cock will do but yours is the closest one at the moment? The rooster call of any cock will do is continually reminded to them as they perform Cock worship,...learning how to be retrained in My image and desires...not crushing the spirit but harnessing it... Must be My Scorpio calling..... Anyone can get submission from the morally or mentally weak. This is true...that is why I pan fry the big ones and throw back the little ones... Domination need not have a morality clause to be effective nor enjoyable... Yet many Christians enjoy bondage but seem to have a conflict when it comes to serving..as there is only one God and no other dols are to be put before Him. (yes I do not subscribe to the female deity) I don't get excitement from that any more than I would from getting her drunk and having my way with her while she's passed out. I always have consent and to do what you mentioned is rape to Me. I suppose to me character and self respect is way too important. Guess it could be....[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m10.gif[/image] Ross ©º°¨¨°º©

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 11:11:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy quote: ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69 quote: ORIGINAL: MyMasterStephen 3) I feel it morally wrong to in any way encourage or facilitate someone to cheat and deceive. No more so if they want it..it is not entrapment...half of the people on here are I would guess.... Just because someone wants something does not mean they should either have it, be provided with it, or be encouraged to seek it. If someone isn't getting what they need in a relationship, then they should leave that relationship and find another one that DOES satisfy them. Perhaps I am morally lustfully bankrupt[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m10.gif[/image] Ross ©º°¨¨°º© I would be willing to guess it is more likely that you have a vivid imagination. If that makes you feel emowered and justified for flaming Me as you follow Me around...go for it Yes I do have a loaded imagination and one of the more critical comments I get from subbies is I do not do the same thing twice... Ross ©º°¨¨°º©

SusanofO -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 11:11:35 AM)
lockedaway: A phrase used by yourself, such as "many of the cheaters" would seem to insinuate that does not include all cheaters. I rest my case, re: My original repsonse to you, as far as judging all people's circumstances, based on a sweeping generality re: What "all of those kind of people are like", considering you personally do not know every one of them. I suggest sticking with what you say you, in particular, would do under any such imagined circumstances. Just my two cents, and what I myself, try to do,as I find it a hell of a lot less sweepingly judgmental (but then again, like I said before I knew where this thread was headed when it started). - Susan

lockedaway -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 11:11:42 AM)
What i get from reading this thread is that there are some people out there that want moral justification for the immoral things they do. You can't have it. If you cheat one someone and they find out, they will probably hate you! And they will hate you for good reason. You have to be big enough to accept that hate and expect nothing other than their hate if you are going to engage in that course of conduct. My advice...for what it's worth...if you want to take another lover, tell your spouse, tell your spouse to do the same and then go enjoy your lover. You will think better of yourself that way.

lapresence -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 11:12:28 AM)
It is point of view. There are people that would really rather not know about a particular situation. I can think of instances in my own life that are really too private to share. Some lies are a kindness. That's my point of view.

SusanofO -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a deliciousness (4/13/2007 11:16:03 AM)
lockedaway: Yes, they can, they don't need it. Other people, will in fact, do what they want, if they want to do it, whether you personally, approve of it, or not. You are not in charge of the rest of the world. You are only in charge of yourself, and your own actions. - Susan

SirDiscipliner69 -> RE: How many others prefer the submissive female to be married? Would you agree there is a delicious (4/13/2007 11:16:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lapresence quote: ORIGINAL: Hrafnkel I agree with both playful one and twice happy, but I have a further question. As a dominant, if a woman is willing to be deceptive, sneaky, break solemn vows, etc, what possible thrill could you get from having her on her knees? If she has so little respect for herself that she's willing to behave this way, then where is the thrill in it? Is that the highest amount of self respect you can muster? Any cock will do but yours is the closest one at the moment? Anyone can get submission from the morally or mentally weak. I don't get excitement from that any more than I would from getting her drunk and having my way with her while she's passed out. I suppose to me character and self respect is way too important. I don't think that your argument follows, logically. It is a double side sword.... Many that so emotionally get upset may not acutually be as secure with the fidelity of their partner... It is amazing how many different facades there are for some in different situations and company. I do not actively seek to be a breaker of vows but more of an enabler...so I am guiltyof cross addicting them to the hedonistic pleasures. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m10.gif[/image] There are many people who are deceptive, sneaky, and willing to break vows, that have very high respect for themselves. I can think of a few politicans right off the top of my head. Is it because it is a woman that you consider that she would have no respect for herself to do something you consider morally wrong? The fact is it is a form of topping from the bottom as I have refered to in My previous writings..they have no real respect for themselves, Me or others but the games of lust and BDSM keep them motivated whereas they would just be home eatting bon bons How many can honestly say they have no intentions of flirting or cyber chatting with others lustfully? deep rooted intentions are needs not met. I know you later say that you object to the morally and mentally weak. But for the morally weak politicans, I really doubt that it is easy to get them to submit. Just lots of money. [;)] But I just don't see that this means that; therefore your logic doesn't follow. Anyway, to each his own. Nice insight. Ross ©º°¨¨°º©

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