Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Imperialism


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Imperialism Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 1:53:20 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Gent, what do you mean by this "World" stuff?



That big thing........humans, trees, animals etc live in it.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 5:00:29 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

I have made the point that my general attitude in life is that people should make sure their own house is in order before ragging on other people for having a dirty house.


Excellent Excellent post - Especially this part.

One thing comes to mind when I read the Gent's query :

Putin's comments regarding this administration's vision /move-to a ''Unipolar world'' :

One centre of authority, one centre of force, one centre of decision-making.
It is world in which there is one master, one sovereign. But the ''sovereign'' {meaning the United States} is eventually destroyed from within.

I'm so happy that vision is falling apart right in Iraq!!!!

Ya'll have a good weekend

- R



In terms of nations, I couldn't agree more with the house in order point.

UR, it's an interesting point about a uni-polar world. I agree there are certain parties who would love to see the world as nothing more than aspiring to market values, but forces are being awakened which are about to act as a check. Fundamental Islamism, Russian nationalism, possibly Western European values of democracy (this one remains to be seen as it's only 40 years since both Britain and France were supressing people in the colonies, so maybe this one is a touch on the optimistic side), possibly Chinese nationalism.

Ultimately though, it's impossible to keep people down. Too much spirit to be subjugated and I just can't see a time where people would allow one idea to dominate - particularly what is largely an American concept, the fact it is American is not the issue, more the case that it is a foreign idea being imposed. Ok, it can be done silently and by stealth for a temporary period while people have their minds on other things, but imperialism is ultimately doomed to failure - because you can't keep people down permanently.



_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to UtopianRanger)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 5:41:22 AM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

As we're talking about armed rebellion, I'm genuinely curious: was the armed rebellion of Americans/the colonists justified? and is the armed rebellion of communists justified? 

Who knows...all I can witness is the result. From what we are taught when studying history, of course it was justified, but that is obviously from a slightly slanted point of view (ya think?) Personally, had I been around during that time and on the other side, I would have thought of the colonists as like unruly children, trying to break away from their parents. But this is typical during any breakaway or coup, just depends on which side you are on.
 
As for communists, I don't know that I would differentiate them as different from any other faction that tries to break away from the "standard"...it's simply a longing for change, usually due to dissatisfaction with the establishment.

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 6:02:01 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

Who knows...all I can witness is the result. From what we are taught when studying history, of course it was justified, but that is obviously from a slightly slanted point of view (ya think?)
 


Not slanted at all. As far as I'm aware it was about representation. If someone was taking my tax and I wasn't getting a say in matters I'd be pissed off about it too - sounds like they were just doing themselves a favour.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

Personally, had I been around during that time and on the other side, I would have thought of the colonists as like unruly children, trying to break away from their parents. But this is typical during any breakaway or coup, just depends on which side you are on.
 


Sounds a fair enough point of view. Personally, nationality isn't an issue, if someone is trying to keep people down, then best to do something about it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

As for communists, I don't know that I would differentiate them as different from any other faction that tries to break away from the "standard"...it's simply a longing for change, usually due to dissatisfaction with the establishment.



No arguments here Scooter. Just people trying to get some balance in the system.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to ScooterTrash)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 7:47:32 AM   
MasterofDiscipli


Posts: 18
Joined: 8/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

In the case of nazi Germany, no one intervened or indeed was even interested beyond celebrating their success, until they started their campaign of expansion.

E


xactly, hitler violated other nations sovereignty unjustly.  Obviously if one sovereign power attacks another it better have a good reason or other sovereign nations will come to their aid not hitlers.  Nations tend to side with who is most morally correct, but not always when bucks are on the line.



Not really - All that got the allies going in WW II was a pact that got violated - not the actual invasion - the invasion would have fired up the rhetoric (and did) but when the Nazis marched thr ough the Czech republic there was only steam and no action - it took the invasion of Poland and the move to cut off the north of Europe to get the allies moving - though the US continued to support the Nazis (economically) until Japan expanded it's war effort eastward - more to try and ensure that the US didn't interfere with its plans in the Pacific - 

yes - that's right - WW II started in 1939 folks, not 1941 <lol>

By the way - a really good anatysis of American foeign policy can be found in Niall Ferguson's "Colossus: The Price of America's Empire". For those of you with a wider world view than the lower 48, I think you might find it an eye-opener

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 8:17:36 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		WWII, started in 1933, when Jewish doctors, shops, lawyers and stores were boycotted.




_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to MasterofDiscipli)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 9:40:44 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterofDiscipli
though the US continued to support the Nazis (economically) until Japan expanded it's war effort eastward - more to try and ensure that the US didn't interfere with its plans in the Pacific - 


now that you mention it that is an interesting side point, ever notice that we always seem to put into power or support the bad guys just before we move in and attack them for being bad guys?  funny how that works LOL


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MasterofDiscipli)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 10:49:45 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

I have made the point that my general attitude in life is that people should make sure their own house is in order before ragging on other people for having a dirty house.



That was a quote from one of my posts, NorthernGent...

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 10:59:06 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Ah yes, a bit skewed. No offence intended.

Agreed on the dirty house point.



_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 11:09:45 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

WWII, started in 1933, when Jewish doctors, shops, lawyers and stores were boycotted.



They weren't the brightest lot the Nazis were they - on the one hand the Jews were the driving force behind "Marxist Bolshevism", on the other hand they were the international financiers of capital - I mean, how fuckin' stupid can people get.

Just goes to show my point on the other thread, some people are more influenced than others - a burrow owl has the ability to see through that sort of bollocks. 

It's a bit like the Muslims today - on the one hand a pack of uneducated, backward rabble, on the otherhand a sophisticated network capable of terrorising the world.

You couldn't make it up.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 11:11:59 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Ah yes, a bit skewed. No offence intended.

Agreed on the dirty house point.




No worries...

It is a favorite line of mine :)

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 2:17:55 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
So what exactly is it about these ideas that justify other nations intervening?


'Justify' is just a word and people define it however they like. What you're poking with that stick of yours is the roots of conflict, and they're just a part of life.

Say I go over and punch someone in the nose whenever I think they need it. Think of how that kind of behavior's gone over through time... duels were once respectable, and I remember my eldest brother in a bare-knuckle fist fight with some kid over diddly-squat while both fathers watched. 

It all depends on who is doing the judging, and what their mindset is, and whether or not the guy who just liberated millions and millions of people is a Democrat or if he's a Republican

Sanity:
Would you mind telling us just how long ago duels were considered respectable?
Or when the last respectable duel was fought?
Who thought they were respectable?
Why they thought they were respectable?
Do you think duels are respectable, and if so why?
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 4/15/2007 2:21:11 PM >

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 2:24:44 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		A nation's sovereingnty ends with its own borders and citizens.
Crossing those borders and attacking other nations is an act
of war.  It is not for outside nations to dictate what form of
government is decided upon within a country. 
 
And another idea to discuss is the connection between
military, economic and cultural imperialisation.
 
More thought-provoking ideas from NG, always good on a
Sunday afternoon. 

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 2:30:25 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

[It's a bit like the Muslims today - on the one hand a pack of uneducated, backward rabble, on the otherhand a sophisticated network capable of terrorising the world.

You couldn't make it up.


i think that is a false assumption.   they are martyring themselves to fight the great evil.  What exactly is the great evil trying to do?  Ravage their resources and what?  Force "Liberty" on them,   you know the right to inheritance will be history, taxation, the need for perscriptions to get drugs and all those other freedoms that you and i share that they do not have.   They are fighting for their "Liberty".     They can see through all our bullshit that we have taken for granted becasue we no longer know the difference.   They have the right and duty to fight for their freedom and repel the coporate take over of their lands.   think about it.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 4:40:29 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:


UR, it's an interesting point about a uni-polar world. I agree there are certain parties who would love to see the world as nothing more than aspiring to market values, but forces are being awakened which are about to act as a check. Fundamental Islamism, Russian nationalism, possibly Western European values of democracy (this one remains to be seen as it's only 40 years since both Britain and France were supressing people in the colonies, so maybe this one is a touch on the optimistic side), possibly Chinese nationalism.



Yeah Gent...... 

I'd say their concept of a ''new world order'' is getting the shit kicked out of it right before their eyes. At this point... I can't envision any technology in the world that can stop the rebellion. I say to those who are part of the rebellion.....keep up the good fight!!



- R



_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 6:55:39 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:


UR, it's an interesting point about a uni-polar world. I agree there are certain parties who would love to see the world as nothing more than aspiring to market values, but forces are being awakened which are about to act as a check. Fundamental Islamism, Russian nationalism, possibly Western European values of democracy (this one remains to be seen as it's only 40 years since both Britain and France were supressing people in the colonies, so maybe this one is a touch on the optimistic side), possibly Chinese nationalism.



Yeah Gent...... 

I'd say their concept of a ''new world order'' is getting the shit kicked out of it right before their eyes. At this point... I can't envision any technology in the world that can stop the rebellion. I say to those who are part of the rebellion.....keep up the good fight!!



- R




i agree totally and they know it too!   In fact the NWO buzzword has now been changed to "global".   Everything is "global" now....   it has that subtle lets help the world approach rather than we are going to take your azzez over approach...  either way its the same shit with a facelift...  


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to UtopianRanger)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 8:41:42 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
So what exactly is it about these ideas that justify other nations intervening?


'Justify' is just a word and people define it however they like. What you're poking with that stick of yours is the roots of conflict, and they're just a part of life.

Say I go over and punch someone in the nose whenever I think they need it. Think of how that kind of behavior's gone over through time... duels were once respectable, and I remember my eldest brother in a bare-knuckle fist fight with some kid over diddly-squat while both fathers watched. 

It all depends on who is doing the judging, and what their mindset is, and whether or not the guy who just liberated millions and millions of people is a Democrat or if he's a Republican

Sanity:
Would you mind telling us just how long ago duels were considered respectable?
Or when the last respectable duel was fought?
Who thought they were respectable?
Why they thought they were respectable?
Do you think duels are respectable, and if so why?
thompson


Duels, to me, are symptomatic of the general problem most men have backing down from being challenged.

I teach verbal de-escalation under adrenalin.  The students are taught to never challenge the man.  Regardless of the validity of their argument, testosterone makes it impossible for the man to back down from his idiotic and indefensible position.  Couple this with adrenalin turning off higher functioning in the brain, challenging somebody with an XY chromosome pattern has few (or no) good outcomes.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 9:13:03 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Are there circumstances where the supression of a nation's sovereignty and ideas are acceptable?

Does such surpression contradict the ideals of freedom and democracy?

Feel free to discuss.


Are there circumstances where the supression of a nation's sovereignty and ideas are acceptable?

Yes.

Does such surpression contradict the ideals of freedom and democracy?

Perhaps, but not necessarily.

Feel free to discuss.
I find it interesting that you bring up a question that has long been settled in international law, and title the thread "Imperialism".

FirmKY


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 9:35:12 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Are there circumstances where the supression of a nation's sovereignty and ideas are acceptable?

Does such surpression contradict the ideals of freedom and democracy?

Feel free to discuss.


Are there circumstances where the supression of a nation's sovereignty and ideas are acceptable?

Yes.

Does such surpression contradict the ideals of freedom and democracy?

Perhaps, but not necessarily.

Feel free to discuss.
I find it interesting that you bring up a question that has long been settled in international law, and title the thread "Imperialism".

FirmKY



kool so where's the link?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Imperialism - 4/15/2007 10:42:33 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

kool so where's the link?


Laws of war


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Imperialism Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094