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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/16/2007 8:48:10 PM

kiyari

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Great thread, educational in a difficult subject.

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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/16/2007 11:28:07 PM

DarkDreams123

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Passive Agressive behavior can be a personality disorder if it is severe enough.

See the article at MedlinePlus: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000943.htm

I agree with what several people here have been saying: that we all deal with PA behavior to varying degrees and at various times.

The thing to understand about someone who suffers from the disorder is that it is just that: a disorder. They need help.

This isn't really any different from other disorders. Have you ever had to deal with someone who suffers from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)? My ex-wife had trouble with OCD. She might not have been so bad that she would have been considered a clinical case, but her OCD certainly caused problems in our relationship. She was afraid of "germs". I won't go into details (you can breathe a sigh of relief here), but suffice it to say that she used to "drive me nuts" with various behavioral "oddities".

The thing to realize about this is that it is a disorder and the person needs help.

You know, it is amazing to me how we will treat someone with a physical disorder. We are helpful, understanding, etc. But when someone is suffering from a mental or emotional disorder we tend to blame the person for the problem and think that they should just fix it themselves.

This isn't to say that we should make excuses for them or "enable" their behavior. This doesn't mean that one might not have to end a relationship with someone who suffered from a mental/emotional disorder that was very distructive to the relationship and refused to seek treatment.

I'd just like to hear a little less of the "blame game" and a little more understanding of both sides of the issue.

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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/17/2007 5:20:35 AM

Elorin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDreams123
This isn't to say that we should make excuses for them or "enable" their behavior. This doesn't mean that one might not have to end a relationship with someone who suffered from a mental/emotional disorder that was very distructive to the relationship and refused to seek treatment.

PA is infuriating, but if someone has it pointed out and wants to make a change in their life, I will work with them. My ex-roommate lived with me for 4 years, and when I pressured him he would work on it, but otherwise he backslid. Since he wasn't the one that wanted the change, I finally gave up on the relationship.

~E

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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/17/2007 7:21:40 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDreams123
Passive Agressive behavior can be a personality disorder if it is severe enough.

I never said it couldn't be- just that it's fairly rare and most of the time just a symptom of a bigger overall problem.

quote:

This isn't really any different from other disorders. Have you ever had to deal with someone who suffers from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)?

Actually I'm moderately OCD myself- we've done a few threads about it here if you want to check them out.

quote:

I'd just like to hear a little less of the "blame game" and a little more understanding of both sides of the issue.
-DarkDreams

I don't think I've seen blaming. For example, alcohol addiction. Yes, there might be a big genetic chunk towards addiction, they might have had a lot of bad shit happen to them in their life which was completely not in their control- but that doesn't make the addiction ok. It's not a case of blaming the victim, it's a case of making the person accountable for their own behavior and choices.

This also tends to be why unstable bi-polars are worse for me. PAs tend to be just insecure using basic emotional manipulation tricks which can be avoided and circumvented. Unstable bi-polars are hyper-emotional and self-centered and until they break out of that shell, you really can't make much progress.

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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/17/2007 6:45:36 PM

Elorin

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quote:

This also tends to be why unstable bi-polars are worse for me. PAs tend to be just insecure using basic emotional manipulation tricks which can be avoided and circumvented. Unstable bi-polars are hyper-emotional and self-centered and until they break out of that shell, you really can't make much progress.

PAs that I have met have been rather hyper-emotional and self-centered also. And until they want to change themselves, all you can do is work your ass off trying to avoid and circumvent their behavior yourself.
Bipolar, on the other hand, is a medical condition which treatment (i.e. medication) can bring stability to. Someone who is bipolar cannot simply decide to stop being hyper-emotional and self centered. Someone PA can.

You can't force someone PA to change - they have to want to change. You can't force feed a bipolar medication until they stabilize - they have to be hospitalized or choose to seek treatment (and once they get out of the hospital they have to want to change or they won't take the medication). [and yes, I know that bipolar is best treated with a combination of a good therapist as well as medication]

I think you are probably speaking from your experience. I don't know how broad your experience is with each condition. Being personally both bipolar and having found PA within myself, I find your descriptions of both conditions inaccurate.

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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/17/2007 10:58:10 PM

DarkDreams123

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDreams123
Passive Agressive behavior can be a personality disorder if it is severe enough.

I never said it couldn't be- just that it's fairly rare and most of the time just a symptom of a bigger overall problem.

You make this statement with such confidence. I agree with you that PA is somewhat rare, but that is because I have done some research on the subject. About 13% of the population is affected by some sort of personality disorder (http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec15/ch201/ch201a.html).

Just what is the "bigger overall problem"? PA is often linked with other personality disorders, but I don't know which you would say is worse.

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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/18/2007 7:02:22 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkDreams123
You make this statement with such confidence. I agree with you that PA is somewhat rare, but that is because I have done some research on the subject. About 13% of the population is affected by some sort of personality disorder (http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec15/ch201/ch201a.html).

Mostly my personal experience and college background since I minored in psych.

So if 13% is affected by a personality disorder (which sounds reasonable to me), of about a dozen or two possible personality disorders...that means maybe 1-4% specifically have PA personality disorder.

quote:

Just what is the "bigger overall problem"? PA is often linked with other personality disorders, but I don't know which you would say is worse.

-DarkDreams

Well for example, anorexia is almost always a symptom of control issues, OCD, and lack of security about one's life and world. If you just try and teach an anorexic that they need to eat more and the health issues, it's not goingt o make much progress. You have to treat the real cause, not just the symptoms.

Getting an anorexic to eat is GOOD of course and you want them to realize why this is bad for them, but if you really want long term behavioral/cognitive changes, you have to go for the holistic and source method IMO.

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RE: Passive Aggressive Dominants? - 4/18/2007 7:59:22 AM

Dnomyar

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MagiksSlave.What you are doing with your partner is very dangerous. I know of a person who died because he kissed his partner after she ate a peanutbutter sandwich. Allergies are nothing to mess around with.

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