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RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 12:31:59 PM

sublizzie

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Joined: 5/26/2004
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How can I let someone into my mind to control me if they aren't intelligent enough to know what to do with what they find? Intelligence will always win out over looks. Education is nice, but someone who is self-taught and has learned through their experiences is just as viable a candidate as one with multiple degrees. It's intelligence matched with an ability to understand that's important to me.

(in reply to PrincessEllie)

Post #: 161

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 1:32:54 PM

OedipusRexIt

Posts: 634
Joined: 11/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I'm probably a threat to your ego, but, com'n. Lighten up.

... trust me. Little lordling, I'm not worried or threatened in the slightest by your pose. Thanks for the absolutely hearty laugh, though.

Now, get back in school, willya!

_____________________________

"My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die..."

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 162

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 2:43:32 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

quote:

Not only intellect, but education is highly important to me as well (ie degrees count), as well as intellect and understanding in at least some of the same key areas that I have.

With all due respect LA, I'm a bit suprised by this coming from you. A degree has little to do with intellect.

Case in point..myself. I have a fairly high IQ (high 140's and I'm not saying that to brag but simply to support my point here) and until recently had never attended college. I spent the years between the ages of 18 and 37 raising my UM and working my butt off to support him alone. I had neither the time nor the excess funds to attend college. Every dime possible that I earned after paying the bills went into his college fund.

Throughout my corporate career it never seemed to fail that I would take an entry level position (eg, receptionist) because I didn't have a degree and therefore didn't qualify for a better position. That entry position rarely lasted long and I was repeatedly promoted into a much higher position (EA for the CEO or VP) because of my intelligence and ability even without the college degree. My last position before leaving to go to school I went from minimum wage as a CSR to earning close to 60K as the Departmental Manager within a 2 month timespan. Most people that know me are pretty shocked I don't have some form of degree in higher education. When I discussed my recent enrollment in school with a friend I've known for well over 5 years his first assumption was that I was studying for my PhD. I am still chuckling over the jaw agape look of shock on his face when I told him I didn't have an AA let alone a Bachelors or Masters degree previously.

So, while I respect your right to have this as your opinion, I have to also just as respectfully disagree that having a college degree has anything to do with intellect or intelligence.

To the OP, I apologize for my digression from the topic at hand and will say that intellect is extremely important to me as is the continued desire to learn and grow intellectually as a person in response to your question.

Every now and then I read a post from a thread that I think of later on.
This was a wonderful post and I thought of you today.
Thank you for sharing, you are a shining example of intellect.
You can have a genius IQ and not go/or delay going to college for a variety of reasons.
Having a baby, etc.
You can also have a rich daddy, go to an Ivy League school, become President and not be able to spell cat.

Congratulations on using your mind and doing so well without a degree!
Bravo!

< Message edited by MzMia -- 4/19/2007 3:01:10 PM >

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(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)

Post #: 163

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 2:58:56 PM

Jevousadore

Posts: 57
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Scout's response was a clarification of view. It's on topic.

I'm entirely behind her idea that the academic world encourages egos. My ego could sink a battleship. Should that battleship somehow annoy me, I could make that quite a literal statement.. I'd be within my resources and engineering capabilities to build a rail gun.
And, unless you're rather high up there in math theory, basic Calculus is more simplistic to me than addition is to you.

Our grades are on curves. Our value in our future professions are competative. The jobs we get will be based off where in the class we stand. The programs we're allowed in already are. The BlackBoard site has listings of every class average- to include homeworks, quizes, and even who attended class. In some cases, typically exams, the professors even spare us having to calculate stardard deviations.

And, seriously. I can sink a battleship. Ain't tat da shhit?

Hello, CuriousLord.....

I am sorry, but I disagree. Ego is defined as an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others; your consciousness of your own identity. If one has a large ego, then education is not going to feed it. Egotists feed themselves.

Can I do Calculus? Not since college, and I have no desire to. Did I learn it and do well? Yes, but it was torture! Could you jump into chaos, medically assess someone and then procede to save their life? Perhaps not. Could you learn to do so? Probably. But to state that to learn is to become egotistical? To encourage not doing so because you may develop opinions? That is like sitting on the front porch telling the camera "Pa says that book learnin' ain't teach me nuthin'".

Yes, I would agree that your need to "sink battleships" would imply an ego. But that does not mean that the majority of educated people feel the same need. And, there is a difference between an ego, and the feeling of self-worth, of pride in one's accomplishments. As I state in a previous post earlier in the discussion, it is not a degree that makes someone intelligent. On the flip side, it is not an ego that makes someone strive to gain knowledge.

In addition, of course there is a grading on a curve, and yes, where you start out in your career will be determined by your class standing. Where you go from there depends on your hard work within that career. Should one be lazy in their profession for fear of "ego"? Whether it is by a greater intelligence or determination, in every facet of life there are those who will be better. Should they apologize and stunt themselves? If your child had to have brain surgery, would you want the one at the bottom, or the one at the top of the class to perform the operation? Would you tell the doctor...."No,sir. I am sorry, but your ego is just too big?"

And at one point I was trained to wield a gun and could legally take someones life. Does that make me "da shhit"? No. It makes me respect the gift of life.

jevousadore

< Message edited by Jevousadore -- 4/19/2007 3:03:41 PM >

_____________________________

“That little man in black says woman can’t have as much rights as man because Jesus wasn’t a woman. Where did your Christ come from? Where did He come from? From God and a woman. Man had nothing to do with Him.” - Sojourner Truth

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 164

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 3:24:44 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

I really like someone with actual intelligence:

1. Education basically means to me that someone has a good memory. I guess thats important..but a piece of paper itself saying someone has completed a "course" means nothing to me. Ive met yogis sitting on the banks of the Ganges with more intelligence in their little finger than most people with degrees.

2. Someone who has the intelligence to make the correct choices in life is really important to me.

3. Someone who has the intelligence to not be close-minded is important to me.

4. Someone who has the intelligence to know the minds of others is important to me.

5. Someone who has the intelligence to realise there is a repercussion for everything we do is important to me.

6. Someone who has the intelligence to realise life is a game and not to be taken too seriously is important to me.

Yeah intelligence is important to me.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to Jevousadore)

Post #: 165

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 3:46:59 PM

Jevousadore

Posts: 57
Joined: 5/17/2006
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Hello, slavejali....

I completely agree with you. In fact, in my first post I stated:

"Personally, I do not need proof of this thru education and degrees. I have met incredibly self-educated, knowledgeable men with nothing more than a GED and life experience. On the opposite end, there are men who have their degrees, but the true thirst to learn and teach does not exist for them."

However, to label those who are educated and expect them to apologize for it? How is that any different then an educated person looking down on someone without a degree? One does not make the other "smarter". But an education will teach someone what they need to know to obtain the career they want. It also provides employers with proof of that knowledge.

Just for the record, I have never even used my degree. I kept changing my major, graduated, then went and joined the airlines, traveled the world on a budget and lived with 5 other girls while sleeping on the floor before I went into emergency personnel. I have more fun memories from that time in my life. My parents thought I was crazy. However, I am still glad I went to college, and would, in fact, love to go back. My point is, to tell someone they should not strive to "learn" anything, whether from school or from being self-taught, because they may form opinions or become egotistical is irresponsible. If that were the case, not one of us would be on this forum, because we would not have a computer, nor would we know how to operate it.

jevousadore

_____________________________

“That little man in black says woman can’t have as much rights as man because Jesus wasn’t a woman. Where did your Christ come from? Where did He come from? From God and a woman. Man had nothing to do with Him.” - Sojourner Truth

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 166

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 3:55:17 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

Hi Jevousadore,

Just a little note: I'm so lazy using these forums, I usually post in the fast reply box down the bottom of the page which then comes up like im responding to someone.."in reply to Jevousadore' as it looked in my last post. So sorry if it looked like I was responding to something you said.

quote:

However, to label those who are educated and expect them to apologize for it? How is that any different then an educated person looking down on someone without a degree? One does not make the other "smarter". But an education will teach someone what they need to know to obtain the career they want. It also provides employers with proof of that knowledge.

Don't get me wrong, education has its uses, definately

I just don't think its a sign of any significant (real) intelligence, thats all. ..err *cough* 'definitely' lol

< Message edited by slavejali -- 4/19/2007 4:02:38 PM >

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to Jevousadore)

Post #: 167

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 4:17:18 PM

Jevousadore

Posts: 57
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline

Ah, thanks slavejali.....I have been wondering what the "fast reply" box was.....didn't know if it went off the original post or the last. Thanks.

On a different tangent, can you please tell me what the heck the paddles mean and where they come from? laugh. And how does someone get deranged, curious, vanilla, etc?

This is where I am an idiot.....and I am horrible when it comes to computers!

jevousadore

< Message edited by Jevousadore -- 4/19/2007 4:19:04 PM >

_____________________________

“That little man in black says woman can’t have as much rights as man because Jesus wasn’t a woman. Where did your Christ come from? Where did He come from? From God and a woman. Man had nothing to do with Him.” - Sojourner Truth

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 168

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 4:18:43 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

Forum Rankings

Peace

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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Jevousadore)

Post #: 169

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 4:25:29 PM

Jevousadore

Posts: 57
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline

Hello, darkinshadows,

Thank you. May I ask who does the ranking? Do the paddles mean you have committed an "infraction" of some sort or just that you are really good at paddling others on the forums?

jevousadore

ps....I always enjoy reading your posts....just finished with the one on "how do you". You are very kind, diplomatic and informative. I can see why you have your title...:)

_____________________________

“That little man in black says woman can’t have as much rights as man because Jesus wasn’t a woman. Where did your Christ come from? Where did He come from? From God and a woman. Man had nothing to do with Him.” - Sojourner Truth

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 170

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 4:27:52 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

In reply to (lol) Jevousadore: hehe

Well I'm deranged cuz Ive spent waaaaay too many hours posting on here :) and the paddles are cuz I look good in black and purple hehe.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 171

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 5:31:06 PM

CuriousLord

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OedipusRexIt

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I'm probably a threat to your ego, but, com'n. Lighten up.

... trust me. Little lordling, I'm not worried or threatened in the slightest by your pose. Thanks for the absolutely hearty laugh, though.

Now, get back in school, willya!

If I actually respond to this, in a manner more than this, does this make me a sucker for a troll..?

(in reply to OedipusRexIt)

Post #: 172

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 5:32:12 PM

Olorin

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Economics is a science in its own mind only and is simply a study of correlation not causation. It pushes out of the equation anything that can't be quantified and thus the entire social "equation" is left out as is the cause/nature of advances in efficiency. It would be like trying to understand how our solar system functions but not wanting to deal with the sun because it was too big and complex. You simply decide that it is a given that planets rotate in a circle and then begin your theory from there. Since modern economic theory cannot fully explain why Mexico with oil, cheap labor, and a perfect location is a failure and Japan with no natural resources is a success, that sort of fails the standard definition of a theory.

My apologies for an off-topic post. I'll be brief, and continue a discussion in another thread if its desired.

SimplyMichael,

I appreciate your taking me seriously on that point - while I disagree with your assertion, I'm gratified that you have the respect to engage me by making it.

I have my reasons for disagreeing, of course. Some of it I came to on my own on a sort of "first principles" basis, but I was pleasantly surprised that the fundamental principles that I see economics operating on are agreed upon by such a diverse lot as Friedrich Hayek (of the Chicago Economic school), Frank Herbert (author of "Dune"), and a few other names, including Adam Smith. I'ld be happy to expound either in private correspondence or in another thread.

Olorin

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 173

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 5:39:53 PM

CuriousLord

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

(Not quoting as it's pretty long. Just a bit up the page.)

Pride, to me, is an ego.

Are you proud you can brush your teeth? I'm not. Everyone can. There's no ego to be involved. It's your life achievements that contribute to your pride and your ego. College contributes to these achievements.

I suppose there's a more.. negative.. view on ego. Kinda like I saw from the OP. "OMG I'm better than you, I'm going to talk down to all of you" bit.

I'm proud of the fact I can make a rail gun. I think it's damned cool. I'm proud of my character, too, that I have the self-esteem and ability to take myself lightly now and then to post about how I have an ego to sink a battleship.

I'm sure you can do some things that you are proud of. Things that aren't common or easily had achomplishments. Parts of your personality that define you in a positive light. There's no shame in being proud- and having an ego- about it.
Just don't follow the OP's example in name calling on forums to protect that ego. :P

(Sorry, Oed, but you're a shining example of the contrast between the "ego" of taking pride's in one's abilities and the absolute blind faith in one's own superiority "ego" I'm trying to highlight.)

(in reply to Jevousadore)

Post #: 174

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 5:40:53 PM

Olorin

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline

I'm disappointed I didn't provoke more disagreement, so at the risk of sounding like a petulant brat, I'll reiterate my earlier claim. I'm not necessarily agitating for attention; it's just that I seem to disagree with the underlying assumption of most of these posts, and so far no one has said anything that leads me to change my mind.

I'll say this. I don't disagree that among people who actually think about this kind of thing (which, by hypothesis, includes practically anyone posting on this thread) intelligence is important. I'll simply contend that most people don't think. Not about relationships, not about psychology, not about themselves.

I'm certain I can't be the only intelligent person here who's found his or her intellect either a liability or at least an asset overwhelmed by other liabilities. In either case, my experience has certainly not been that intelligence is an overriding positive. Maybe all of you are simply better people than the norm (which I don't doubt) but I can't agree that intelligence is a plus among the majority of people.

I'ld be happy to be convinced otherwise - I'ld be happy to move to wherever it is that it IS true. But I would be curious if someone could at least address my pessimism....

(in reply to Olorin)

Post #: 175

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 5:46:51 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings curiouslord,

i just had a couple quick thoughts on your most recent post.

i am proud of my accomplishments - i think i'm doing well for someone in my circumstances and at the point i'm at in life. but at the same time, the things i am -good- at, or knowledgeable about, are hard for me to be prideful over...mainly because i know a lot about the things i love, and that's what i study and pursue academically and outside of academics. in that way, i don't think i should pride myself anymore than i would pride anyone else - of course we are going to be good at stuff we like to do. i'm just lucky in that i've been able to pursue academically the things that i am passionate about in life - if i were independently wealthy and didn't have to get a job, this is what i'd be doing, except with less working to put myself through school. so in that way i have a difficult time thinking more highly of myself, because i think it would be easy for anyone with the same predisposition to what i study that i have to be very good at it.

i'm not sure if i'm making much sense...just a thought on pride/ego.

annabelle.

_____________________________

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i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 176

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 5:49:05 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

lovely olorin,

in most dating circles, i have not found that intelligence seems to be an asset. i do my best to avoid said circles. my prime example of this would be dating college students around my own age...i haven't found that intelligence is what gets other people my age going romantically. this is why i tend to date far out of my age range, or at least far away from campus. ;) i'm not saying all college students are this way, but i do agree with you that intelligence isn't an overriding factor, at least in some circles. luckily, some of us can and do avoid those circles as often as possible. just a thought.

annabelle.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to Olorin)

Post #: 177

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 5:58:06 PM

CuriousLord

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

I'm afraid there's little address for it. I can sympathize, hell, empathize with your value of intelligence.

However, humans are organisms driven by how it is best to live. Pure intellectuals are defective deviations from this natural order. We are obsessed with a single attribute, confusing it with the "life" concept of humanity as a whole. For us, it is life, but it is just too much of one good thing, at the cost of others, in the eyes of the majority.

Consider the value of intelligence in that of a controlled sample's mind to be on a log decay curve. Every leap and bound more matters less and less, yet it comes at ever increasing costs, detracting majorly from other desirable characterstics in exchange for increasing one already-shining characterstic slightly further.

Dim TotalValue as Double
Dim i=0 as Int
Dim Total=100 /*Total number of value points allowed.*/
Dim input as Double
Do
Promt "How much do you invest in " & Characterstic.name_i & "?", input
If Total +1 > input then
Let Total = Total - input
Else
Exit Sub
End if
Dim Characteristic_i as Int
Dim Value_i=input as Double
While (i++, i<11)
Do
Value_i = log(Characterstic_i)
Value TotalValue = TotalValue + Value_i
While (i=i-1, i>0)
Print TotalValue

TotalValue_max = 10 > TotalValue_{100,0,0,..0.} = 2.

(in reply to Olorin)

Post #: 178

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 6:00:29 PM

Elorin

Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olorin
I'll say this. I don't disagree that among people who actually think about this kind of thing (which, by hypothesis, includes practically anyone posting on this thread) intelligence is important. I'll simply contend that most people don't think. Not about relationships, not about psychology, not about themselves.

I'm responding to this without having read much of the thread at all. Please pardon the Southern accent and mannerisms - not intended to be condescending or patronizing.

Darlin'...of course they don't think. That's why we call them sheeple. And for the first coupla dates, it's easy to enjoy their company. But then we start to realize how many walls they have built around things rather than think, and how illogical their lives are, and we shudder...and move on. Or on the other hand, one night we start talking about something we really adore and make a profound statement and look into their eyes to see a dull glaze, and they move on.

IQ is a bell curve. 100 is supposed to be average. Life is difficult, and it is hard just to get through day to day, much less get through and then start thinking about things we can't change. Most people don't think. And as such, intelligence can become a liability - it can leave you in a relationship feeling unfulfilled w/ someone who doesn't think, it can overwhelm and intimidate others.

The balance to that is patience. Use patience, and fish in the pools that are most likely to bite...hang out with the more intelligent. Book clubs and poetry slams are more likely to net you another thinker than bars and night clubs.

I'm a pessimist too. I'm absolutely floored on a weekly basis by the people that I work with and how shallow minded they are, and how the simplest (to me) thoughts can just stump them. Sheeple don't think...and it sucks.

~E

(in reply to Olorin)

Post #: 179

RE: Intellectual Appeal - 4/19/2007 6:24:03 PM

OedipusRexIt

Posts: 634
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olorin

I'm disappointed I didn't provoke more disagreement, so at the risk of sounding like a petulant brat, I'll reiterate my earlier claim. I'm not necessarily agitating for attention; it's just that I seem to disagree with the underlying assumption of most of these posts, and so far no one has said anything that leads me to change my mind.

I'll say this. I don't disagree that among people who actually think about this kind of thing (which, by hypothesis, includes practically anyone posting on this thread) intelligence is important. I'll simply contend that most people don't think. Not about relationships, not about psychology, not about themselves.

I'm certain I can't be the only intelligent person here who's found his or her intellect either a liability or at least an asset overwhelmed by other liabilities. In either case, my experience has certainly not been that intelligence is an overriding positive. Maybe all of you are simply better people than the norm (which I don't doubt) but I can't agree that intelligence is a plus among the majority of people.

I'ld be happy to be convinced otherwise - I'ld be happy to move to wherever it is that it IS true. But I would be curious if someone could at least address my pessimism....

...this thread has more than run it's course, and your thoughts contained here would make an excellent start to a new thread.

Maybe then, I'd try harder to disagree.

*edited of spelling - gawd I hate making a spelling error...

< Message edited by OedipusRexIt -- 4/19/2007 6:25:04 PM >

_____________________________

"My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die..."

(in reply to Olorin)

Post #: 180

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