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Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 10:26:36 AM

DaddyDeSade

Posts: 22
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline

I have been known to say that I think it's a mistake to fall in love with a sub. I have caught a fair amount of flak for that statement, although I am equally ready to say I have done it and will probably do it again.
I have long used the phrase, 'whoever loves least controls the relationship.' Which people don't like but no one has really argued either.
I have heard others use the analogy that love is like a drug and there is always one partner with a greater need who is like an addict. And one with a lesser need who is like the one who supplies the drug. The addict is always going to be beholden to the supplier.
I have loved every single sub I ever have had. It is too damn much work thinking of the best scene or experience possible to share with a person and inacting it upon them, to do for someone I didn't love. It's just like organizing a suprise party for a vanilla friend. I love parties but I'm not going to put in that work for someone I didn't love.
I love bdsm play, but I'm not going to make the effort for someone I don't love.
But 'in love'?
that's a different story. And the reason why it's a different story is because when you fall in love you never know whether, when all the chips are down, you're going to end up the addict or the supplier. And you cannot Dom effectively from an addict place. At least I can't.
What do you folks think? Am I crazy? or do I just have some bizarre interpretation of 'in love'?

Post #: 1

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 10:27:12 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

I long for little else.

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 2

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 10:30:51 AM

MissLadyKier

Posts: 4
Joined: 2/24/2007
Status: offline

While I have fallen "in love" with one who served for Me... I don't regret it; not even a second of it, even though things didn't work out.
But I truly don't think that I would put Myself back into that position again.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 3

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 10:44:31 AM

Poppygirl

Posts: 41
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

i would not accept a collar from some on ewho did not love me!

(in reply to MissLadyKier)

Post #: 4

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 10:49:58 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I think the way I love my slaves is very different from how I've loved my spouse or former vanilla partners.

Am I "in love" well, define that for me and I can tell you better.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 5

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 10:51:15 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

No, you don't have an unusualy view. I'm stuggling to define what "in love" SHOULD be for me. I know that what is HAS meant to/for me has been a negative thing.

If you'd like to read my very important *cough* bullshit *cough* about it, check out this entry and this entry in my myspace blog.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 6

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 10:53:16 AM

sunfleur

Posts: 75
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline

i think in uderstand your point. being IN love, and feeling loving toward, are two different things. i loved my ex husband. but i was IN love with him. divorcing didnt seem to hurt that much at all. and i can only explain that by saying i wasnt in love with him.

it's a fine line perhaps? but a line just the same.

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 7

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 10:56:59 AM

texancutie

Posts: 322
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline

Love is a beautiful thing...when it works. I believe some people can dominate effectively when they are in love. Others may lose perspective. It's a very individual thing.

As a submissive, I can't help but love him. Or better yet, being the submissive I am, I can't help but love him.

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 8

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 10:57:46 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Personally I see love as something that empowers a person to do the best for another. It is not a diminishment of me or my personal power to love someone else. I cannot imagine feeling as though there was some sort of diminishment of his dominance because of growing emotion for me.

Love does not equal a loss of control, on the contrary, it means the willingness to create difficult situations because it is what is best for the person you love (thinking parental love here).

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 9

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 10:58:25 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

Hi DaddyDeSade

I agree that there is a huge difference between loving someone and being in love with someone and I love your analogy of the addict and the supplier and to an extent I agree with you, though I think it’s a shame that you want to go into this self protection mode.
But and this is a big BUT! No matter how manly you are and no matter how dominant you are, you are not in charge of your emotions when it comes to ‘falling in love’. It kind of sneaks up on that big old demon we all posses, the erogenous zone! I very much believe that is where love starts. It’s a sexual captivation that knows no bounds and from that we build. No matter how hard an exterior we have that emotion will seep in through every pore of your being. When it happens you have no choice!

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 10

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 11:02:04 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

http://www.collarchat.com/m_651231/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#651253
What's love got to do with it?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_632033/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#632105
Loving your property

http://www.collarchat.com/m_609494/mpage_2/key_love/tm.htm#609934
Ownership and Love

http://www.collarchat.com/m_545462/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#545482
What does love got to do with it?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_538921/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#538965
The Loving Dom

http://www.collarchat.com/m_499831/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#499881
Don't fall in love with your dom

http://www.collarchat.com/m_477568/mpage_3/key_love/tm.htm#484997
How common is it to fall in love with a submissive or dominant?

http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=423736&mpage=1&key=love&#423879
Love and Ms

http://www.collarchat.com/m_282567/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#282615
submissive/slave romantic love

http://www.collarchat.com/m_269031/mpage_1/key_love%252Csubmission/tm.htm#269120
Falling in love with Mistress

http://www.collarchat.com/m_248492/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#248492
true love in a relationship

http://www.collarchat.com/m_236486/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#236486
balancing commitment and love

http://www.collarchat.com/m_199915/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#199915
love in bdsm

http://www.collarchat.com/m_166085/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#166085
love and D/s

http://www.collarchat.com/m_65043/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#65043
love and bdsm (the unfettered heart)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_150281/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#150281
Is it normal to fall in love with your dom during training?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_125880/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#125880
not allowed to love him, what do I do?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_119832/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#119832
being owned or being loved

http://www.collarchat.com/m_97124/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#97124
subs/masochists and love

http://www.collarchat.com/m_31285/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#31285
can love get in the way?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_14998/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#14998
love in d/s

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2491/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#2491
is love important in a relationship?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 11

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 11:04:08 AM

Suleiman

Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline

Love is a poorly defined word in our language, subject to all manner of semantic arguments. The "addictive" form relates as much to a chemical response of the brain - something that you can not truly control - as much as to a "pure" emotional state (if it is possible to have emotions that are not the direct product of neurochemistry, but as I am more a philosopher than a scientist, I will posit that such things may exist). Love can take a lot of forms - which again leads to semantic arguments on what love is.

However you define it, love is a motive, not a choice. A person who calls themselves dominant should (in my less than humble opinion) be capable of making choices for themselves and for their partner. At what point does scene play become abuse? Is it time for the sub to stop, even though they want to go farther? Can you think with the big head instead of the little one? Can you keep it in your pants for the first few dates, even if she begs you to fuck her silly? Are you capable of getting right up to that edge without crossing it? If so, then love has no power over you.

I am a lover. It is my strength, it is my pwer. It gives me hope, it gives me a reason to keep on living. It does not, however, control me. Neither does my rage, my angst, or my chronic and clinical depression. I control my destiny, and I control what decisions I make.

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 12

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 11:08:46 AM

puella

Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

If you can be controlled by your submissive because of your love for her, you can be controlled by that submissive even if you didn't love her. The issue is your own self control, not what 'love' makes you do.

Love does not make you lose control... it does not make you rob a bank, or drive a hybrid vs a standard car, it does not make you buy a home it does not make you live a healthier lifestyle... those are your own choices, blaming love is just a way of not having to take full responsibility for your choices.

Actually...to take it a bit further... if you have to deny yourself something as natural to the human condition as love to remain in control... I think that there is an underlying issue which needs to be addressed within yourself.

< Message edited by puella -- 4/19/2007 11:14:34 AM >

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 13

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 11:10:37 AM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddyDeSade

I have long used the phrase, 'whoever loves least controls the relationship.' Which people don't like but no one has really argued either.

I'll argue it.

Theotrically, sure, if both people are malicous in the relationship.

However, if someone were to use love as an emotional blackmail to wringle authority from me, its simply a relationship I dont need to be in.

Using love as form of control is flat out unhealthy and not needed. This is one of the many reasons I am changing from the "power exchange" philosophy to the "authority exchange" one.

If someone was to find fulfillment in giving me authority over them, why would they want to try and take it away? If they are, then the person wasnt a good match for me to begin with.

The real problem in the power based relationship would be the person emotional blackmailing me with love, and not following "in love".

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 14

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 11:16:27 AM

PeggyDee

Posts: 45
Joined: 3/18/2007
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Hi DaddyDeSade,
You are right in some of your assertations (IMO), but as has been said...you really cannot control "falling in love" or "being in love" which, again, IMO is different from simply or not so simply "loving" someone. In love brings out a wide range of emotions that were not there before. It can absolutely destroy a D/s M/s relationship or it can strengthen it. As another poster said, it's how YOU handle it, how you react to it. If you allow your emotions to control you then you've lost control over yourself and hence, usually, anyone you may be controlling at the time. It's not our emotions that do the damage, it's how we react to those emotions that make for healthy relationships or unhealthy ones.
BestWishes,
PeggyDee~GW

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 15

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 11:17:37 AM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings daddydesade,

i think that people often mistake the honeymoon feeling or feelings obsession, possession, what have you, for love and being in love. to me, being in love does not mean he has any less control because it doesn't affect his control over me at all. our love is not an addiction - it's something that's mutually nurturing. cultivating unconditional love is something that i challenge myself to do in every area of my life, and i feel that i have made a lot of progress with that personally in our relationship, because i can be in love with him and yet it's not a destructive, addictive, obsessive, compulsive kind of love. i have a hard time seeing "addiction" love as love, because it usually ends up being destructive to the relationship.

that said, i would not want to be collared by someone i didn't love and who didn't love me. i also really like what puella said about personal responsibility and not blaming love for your choices. being in love doesn't necessarily mean you -have- to be "blinded" by love.

just a few thoughts.

annabelle.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 16

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 11:19:19 AM

PeggyDee

Posts: 45
Joined: 3/18/2007
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

MadRabbit,
I like that.....changing from power exchange to "authority exchange"....I plan to steal the phrase and use it often. Wise for one so young in years but not so young in soul I think.
PeggyDee~GW

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 17

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 11:24:31 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

To love someone in a genuine way one must make themselves vulnerable. If you choose partners who are either turned off by vulnerability or worse exploit it, then doing so will destroy the relationships, but in reality I don't think you have lost anything. In fact, I would argue you have yet to have anything.

If I can't roll over on my back and expose my soft underbelly to a woman and have her love me for it, then that is just sex/play to me. Like snacks, it has its place but what I want is a full rich meal, one that nourishes my soul not just my cock.

(in reply to PeggyDee)

Post #: 18

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 11:26:55 AM

PeggyDee

Posts: 45
Joined: 3/18/2007
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

annabelle,
Exactly, those feelings, the "honeymoon" phase are not really "in love"...I have a friend who calls it "in lust". And yes, it generally tends to bring out the worst in us, especially in poly households. Watching the new relationship fever, or the new one watching the free flowing, obvious attatchement a poly Dominant has for his existing relationships can be overwhelming for some. Territorialism, fits of depression, crying jags, screams of I CAN'T DO THIS, why can't you love "just" me, and it goes on and on. These are not only not poly people, but I have found over the years these same folks can't maintain monogamous relationships either. They simply are to emotionally unbalanced to set aside, work on, or otherwise get their own shit together to form healthy relationships.
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone who is "in love" would behave as if the one they are in love with was thier most precious gift rather than a territory to protect!
PeggyDee~GW

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 19

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 11:27:09 AM

Suleiman

Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline

Agred. Again, a matter of semantics, but even a slight change in phrasing can make a vast difference. "Authority Exchange" is quite what I do.

This morning, my wife looked at me with those big green eyes of hers and said, "but honey, we're not really in love, we just suffer from stockholme syndrome towards each other"

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to PeggyDee)

Post #: 20

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