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RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 3:26:01 PM

Suleiman

Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline

Well, DaddyDeSade, you honestly didn't come off as immature per se, but perhaps a tad confused. Then again, as I said, love is something of a sticky wicket in our language. More than any other word that I know of, it is prone to become the subject of psychobabble. Everyone has their own meaning for what love is, and whether or not they are experiencing it. I had to speak in generalities, and from a purely personal point of view, because it was impossible to determine what exactly you meant originally by the term 'Love'. It could be that what I feel bears no resemblance whatsoever to what you are describing. I simply mknow that any emotion wil throw me off-kilter, so I try not to let any of them affect my judgement too strongly (which often means I take weeks or months to come to a decision).

We all have to handle our own emotional states. No one can do it for us.

I am curious, though - why did you start this thread?

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 41

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 4:35:35 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Exactly.

And love as an emotional blackmail isnt something that pertains solely to power based relationships (or authority based). People can do it in vanilla relationships as well.

If you couldnt be a dominant figure for someone without love, then parents are fucked.

No...I have had romantic vanilla partners who used that "if you really loved me" line and those who've done the "I think we need to talk" thing and then find out that because I had not done A, then I was guilty of not loving them or starting to fall out of love or on and on. A long time ago I would feel guilty and end up apologizing and doing exactly as they wished, even while sometimes resenting it. When I realized what was causing the resentment, I changed.

I admit to having a tendency to begin to like and./or care about people too soon. Part of it is the fact that I tend to take people at the value of "if you want to get to know me, there must be something likable about me" and it takes a bit to knock that liking away. It would be easier if it wasn't as hard to do so but it is.
Tis funny...you hear people say that they really want someone who cares about them and who isn't afraid to show it and who can show a genuine interest in them...then when you do so, you are told that there "is no "relationship" yet or that you showed too much interest too soon or you expected something you had no right to expect and therefore...had no right to call them on being wrong for not following through on their end. And to be fair...and brutally honest about myself...it may be a bit of karma coming back to bite me in the ass for I did it myself a few times when I was younger. I went through my stages of figuring out that I had done things like that, paid my regret fees and now...sometimes...I get to pay the karmic fee.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 42

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 5:28:54 PM

WhiplashSmile

Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline

Here's the Deal as a Dom it's ok to fall in love. You are a human being with human needs, you are not an emotionaless being. First and foremost, accept the fact you are human and embrace it. Second, is to identify with your role Dom/me, sub, switch. Embrace it.

Now, it is fair to equate Love to a drug in the sense you have. Are you are risk of being topped from the bottom? Perhaps, but only if you allow it to happen. The thing is that you've spent so much time avoiding love, that you yourself do not know how to control yourself when you feeling it. Yikes!   As yourself said, you feel like an addict.   The thing you have to consider, would you be willing to walk away from somebody you loved, if the relationship was not right?   Because this would mean you are self inflicting pain? What?   The problem you are having or issues with Love, is not knowing how to control or Master your own Addition or control over your own emotions. If you think about it, the biggest thing is not Love, but fear of being rejected or shut off by the other person.

The way, I look at it! Allow yourself to experience and feel Love. If they shut you off, it's their choice and not yours.   Their problem, not yours.   You must be bold enough to feel pain and deal with pain. This in itself is something to master! How do you control yourself when you are feeling emotionally hurt by another. This may not be something you can Master easy, it may take a lot of work and time. Just consider it a Challenge at becoming more of a DOM.

If you can Master your own emotional States including Love, Fear, and Pain. You have come one Hell of a long way in being a Human being and a Dom. For you will have a Great level of self control.

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 43

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 6:42:22 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

Just a few thoughts I have posted in the past with regards to love

quote:

Love for me has always been a Choice as much as it has been a Feeling. My feelings have always been motivated by what I perceive.. be it real or illusion. The choice is to see the truth of what I perceive from the lies.

As much as I may feel love.. I am also responsible to make the choice of my actions.. I do not let my emotions decide that.

and then there is this one

quote:

Many parents who love their children very much are blinded by that love to make the choices and decisions that are best for raising their children. They are blinded by "my children do no wrong" I suspect everyone can think of examples of such. Because this, are they good parents? should they be parents? Should parents not love their children?

I see no difference between the Master that allows his/her love to negatively affect his/her responsibilities towards the slave as the parent that allows love to negatively affect their responsibilites towards their children.

To me it is not a question if Love should be in the relationship... It is should they be a Master?

If love causes a person not be fulfill their responsibilities... then let them never know what love is.

and lastly this one

quote:

.... Love to me binds the people to a relationship. It moves the focus from themselves to focus on the other and the relationship itself. I question when love is not part of the relationship... if the focus ever moves from oneself to the relationship. That without love, I wonder if the individuals are only using the other and the relationship to serve their self-centered interests. Taking what they can and maybe draining the lemon dry, then going to find a new lemon. I wonder if there are some that use the word love, but it is a shallow use of the word instead of the intense devotion that it leads one towards. Love to me is a powerful word if it used with the feelings that back it up. It moves one from the self-centered focus to that of a focus to another person and a relationship. We become givers instead of takers and as result of our giving out of love we recieve more than we could ever take. Instead sucking the lemon dry.. we plant an orchard reap the rewards of that effort

I do not argue that love has an affect on a relationship. And I appreciate that some use the arguement that the person that loves less is the one in control... I ask... what love are you talking about then. How do you measure this love you speak of... If you can't measure it... then logic of who loves less is of little use.

Also, it really is what love you talk about.... There is a love that sucks the lemon dry.. and their is love that plants orchards..... It really depends on how a person loves and accepts love.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 44

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 6:46:45 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings daddydesade,

i appreciate your sharing some experiences/feelings you have as a minister. :) i thought that was a great addition to the thread.

i don't think you are at all hypocritical or immature...you do not come across that way to me, at least. i think that a lot of people have varying perceptions of love and what it does to them and how it works in certain relationships, and yours is no less valid because it's different from mine or anyone else's. i think your posts are insightful and i appreciate your honestly and openness in talking about this.

annabelle.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 45

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 7:21:35 PM

aurora31

Posts: 266
Joined: 8/18/2005
Status: offline

My Sir very much cares for and loves each of us that serve him. But is he in love with us? No! And he never will be. He will never let his emotions stand in the way of our path even if that means our path takes us away from serving him. For example if one of us were to grow into becoming a Dom.

aurora

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 46

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 7:26:57 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

I love Angel dearly. I am not in love with him romantically, nor do I think I could be. However, he and I share a particularly strong and nearly unconditional love that is far more like a Mother and son (ordaughter in this case) than I had ever hoped to find. I would not trade how our relationship has prgressed for anything in the world. I could never keep someone I did not love. However, I do not fall IN LOVE in the traditional sense of the term often. I believe it has hapened once, long ago, and has never come close since.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to MrTime)

Post #: 47

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 11:16:32 PM

OedipusRexIt

Posts: 634
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I long for little else.

...don't know how I missed this thread, but I'm with Michael.... sort of.

_____________________________

"My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die..."

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 48

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 11:26:27 PM

BossyShoeBitch

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline

sort of?

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to OedipusRexIt)

Post #: 49

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 11:36:05 PM

MasterGremlin

Posts: 230
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline

I used to have an issue that I wasn't truely dominant with someone if I fell in love. If a relationship started out heavy sexually with D/s leanings (as almost all of my early relationships did) then if I fell in love with that person the "playing" suffered. Since being submissive was a foreign concept to me as a dominant (I couldn't understand how anyone could like to be treated that way and find it rewarding) I had a hard time doing S/M type activities in bed with someone I was in love with. Minxy showed me that for subs they NEED that type of treatment (whatever the dynamic is that your participating in) and I found that I could fall in love with someone and still be dominant with them.

Control. Love can be addicting, same as sex, drugs, alcohol etc etc. You don't prove to yourself that you possess total control of yourself by never having tried any of these, but rather by trying or participating and keeping them in perspective you show your self-mastery and also get to experience a lot more of what life has to offer.

MG

(in reply to OedipusRexIt)

Post #: 50

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/19/2007 11:49:14 PM

OedipusRexIt

Posts: 634
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

sort of?

Yeah... I may be a big mean old Dom, but I came equipped with a set of emotions, nearly broken in.

Mostly, they have a good and careful Master, but every so often, Love gets away with something.

So... Michael's right, but it can come with a cost. And a benefit.... It's just not always amenable to analysis.

So... your thoughts?

*stupid spelling demons...

< Message edited by OedipusRexIt -- 4/20/2007 12:18:07 AM >

_____________________________

"My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die..."

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 51

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/20/2007 6:14:57 AM

BossyShoeBitch

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OedipusRexIt

quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

sort of?

Yeah... I may be a big mean old Dom, but I came equipped with a set of emotions, nearly broken in.

Mostly, they have a good and careful Master, but every so often, Love gets away with something.

So... Michael's right, but it can come with a cost. And a benefit.... It's just not always amenable to analysis.

So... your thoughts?

*stupid spelling demons...

I love to be in love. The initial infatuation stage and constant longing is like a drug to me. I've had that twice in my life. But the heartbreak that occured each time it ended drove me to do things I never should have done.
In order to avoid this happening again, I married someone who I did not love. I ruined my own chance at possibly finding the real thing, and robbed him of what he (and everyone) deserves.
14 years later, with divorce on the horizon, an amazing thing has happened. I think I found someone who makes my heart bounce! To be honest, the feelings are even more intense than when I was in my twenties.  We haven't seen each other in person yet, but I feel like I have known him forever.
The last time I played it safe, I messed up two lives.
I'm not playing it safe again... In 7 days we will meet. Keep your fingers crossed for me.

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to OedipusRexIt)

Post #: 52

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/20/2007 6:21:45 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

(fast reply)

Discussed this issue with both the slave and the husband last night.

My slave didn't say much, just "You love us differently, Mistress, isn't that how it's supposed to be?"

My husband said "Yuck, that mainstream out of control love? Is that being in love? That's what your parents had, TammyJo, look how healthy that was for all of you. I like what have: respect, focus, mutual understanding, and a romantic streak that doesn't stop. We don't need to lose ourselves in each other to love each other."

My men are so wise and so well matched to me.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 53

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/20/2007 6:33:40 AM

BossyShoeBitch

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

(fast reply)

Discussed this issue with both the slave and the husband last night.

My slave didn't say much, just "You love us differently, Mistress, isn't that how it's supposed to be?"

My husband said "Yuck, that mainstream out of control love? Is that being in love? That's what your parents had, TammyJo, look how healthy that was for all of you. I like what have: respect, focus, mutual understanding, and a romantic streak that doesn't stop. We don't need to lose ourselves in each other to love each other."

My men are so wise and so well matched to me.

I agree with that on an intellectual level. I really do.
But losing ourselves in each other just does it for me.
That feeling that the rest of the world just falls away and it's only the two of you.

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 54

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/20/2007 10:11:39 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

Love and BDSM has been a difficult combination for me but for ME it has been difficult not because of anything innate to the two but to my own personal issues.

At first I felt that one needed to be able to end the relationship in order to control and that if I was in love I couldn't do that. I felt that way because I was immature. The ones I was able to dominate were not the ones I wanted. If I "wanted" them I became weak, I needed them and would play it safe rather than risk losing them. Various shades of this as I matured, this is all in my mid to late '30s and even into my last relationship.

I have long known I do not choose women who I most want, I cull one off from the herd, some sort of emotional straggler. Then a part of me looks down on her/wants to fix her up. My best relationships were ones where I didn't exactly pick the woman, a blind date here, a response to an ad, and a woman at work who chased me are probably my better relationships.

My last partner while a mixed bag, was a woman who I think was the break for me of my prior patterns. A woman I had become friends with, actual friends as she was a Domme and I respect that. Long story but we began a long and wonderful relationship, one where I grew a great deal.

So I have slowly grown to where I now at least pick out the leader of the pack so to speak rather than culling someone from the herd. So now I date women I want which makes being in love FAR more risky and since one doesn't want to lose such an amazing woman, this is where the whole "must be able to end it" rational comes in. To do so you need to have the emotional security to know that if you end it with this amazing woman, that you can find and attract another.

However, for me I still feel that is an immature response. Where I WANT to be, my GOAL is to know I can attract and keep an amazing woman because I am worthy of her. Pretty much there, perhaps one never looses a bit of that insecurity and perhaps that isn't a bad thing. Now I need to take another step and know myself well enough as well as what I want in a woman to find and attract the sort of woman who while strong and powerful, craves what I want to give, that when we struggle for power, that when I push her boundaries, that despite the immediate resistance that ultimately that is where she wants to go. This way I do not have to choose between expressing my dominance fully and having the romantic love in my life that feeds my soul. I have yet to do this although I think I am about to find out if I have.

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 55

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/20/2007 11:20:00 AM

heartfeltsub

Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

Wow, Michael, that was so honest and powerful. Great post. There have been a number of great posts in this thread.

heartfelt

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 56

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/20/2007 12:53:05 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

(fast reply)

Discussed this issue with both the slave and the husband last night.

My slave didn't say much, just "You love us differently, Mistress, isn't that how it's supposed to be?"

My husband said "Yuck, that mainstream out of control love? Is that being in love? That's what your parents had, TammyJo, look how healthy that was for all of you. I like what have: respect, focus, mutual understanding, and a romantic streak that doesn't stop. We don't need to lose ourselves in each other to love each other."

My men are so wise and so well matched to me.

I agree with that on an intellectual level. I really do.
But losing ourselves in each other just does it for me.
That feeling that the rest of the world just falls away and it's only the two of you.

Feeling that it's just us two (or us three) happens but we don't equate that with feeling "in love" it's just an extension of us making time and space for ourselves, part of taking care of each other and ourselves.

Maybe it's a time factor too. Husband and I will celebrate 15 years of marriage (18 years together) at the end of May. But I don't ever think we had that out of control feeling that seems so associated with being "in love". We'd both had that before and we approached each other as friends, developed a romance and keep both after almost two decades.

That's us and it's who we'd add to the household. I think I'd be afraid of someone who told me that I was all they could think of or see -- just typing that is creepy to me, too.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 57

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/20/2007 1:53:33 PM

OedipusRexIt

Posts: 634
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

quote:

ORIGINAL: OedipusRexIt

quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

sort of?

Yeah... I may be a big mean old Dom, but I came equipped with a set of emotions, nearly broken in.

Mostly, they have a good and careful Master, but every so often, Love gets away with something.

So... Michael's right, but it can come with a cost. And a benefit.... It's just not always amenable to analysis.

So... your thoughts?

*stupid spelling demons...

Keep your fingers crossed for me.

...always. After all, wasn't it "true love" that brought him back from being mostly dead?

Nothing but luck for both of you.

_____________________________

"My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die..."

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 58

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/20/2007 2:40:59 PM

Aslanemperor

Posts: 108
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddyDeSade

I have been known to say that I think it's a mistake to fall in love with a sub. I have caught a fair amount of flak for that statement, although I am equally ready to say I have done it and will probably do it again.
I have long used the phrase, 'whoever loves least controls the relationship.' Which people don't like but no one has really argued either.
I have heard others use the analogy that love is like a drug and there is always one partner with a greater need who is like an addict. And one with a lesser need who is like the one who supplies the drug. The addict is always going to be beholden to the supplier.
I have loved every single sub I ever have had. It is too damn much work thinking of the best scene or experience possible to share with a person and inacting it upon them, to do for someone I didn't love. It's just like organizing a suprise party for a vanilla friend. I love parties but I'm not going to put in that work for someone I didn't love.
I love bdsm play, but I'm not going to make the effort for someone I don't love.
But 'in love'?
that's a different story. And the reason why it's a different story is because when you fall in love you never know whether, when all the chips are down, you're going to end up the addict or the supplier. And you cannot Dom effectively from an addict place. At least I can't.
What do you folks think? Am I crazy? or do I just have some bizarre interpretation of 'in love'?

ok, I have read what you say, and here is what I have to say. I'm young, and I know I haven't experienced alot, but Love is a passion for me.
It is my personal belief that love should be the end result of any long term relationship. You are bound to gain feelings for anyone who is with you constantly. I find it very difficult not to love a truly submissive girl and I'll tell you why.
I think that a submissive attitude is the greatest expression of love a person can give. The idea that her knowing that she's making me happy is giving her joy is very intoxicating and when confronted with that fact, I tend to fall quickly. This is why most of my good relationships have been with slaves who like pleasing, not those who like to feel pain. The latter are fun for a one-time session occasionally, but I can't see myself falling for them.
Anyway, this is my oppinion.
~Aslanemperor

(in reply to DaddyDeSade)

Post #: 59

RE: Falling in love with a sub - 4/20/2007 3:23:19 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

! I very much believe that is where love starts. It’s a sexual captivation that knows no bounds and from that we build. No matter how hard an exterior we have that emotion will seep in through every pore of your being. When it happens you have no choice!

I agree and you describe a bit of what I wrote in a previous post and in particular how it relates to 'vanilla love' and as our 'Invisible Reality.' I simply chose different words.

It is also my feeling that a collared slave...living with his or her master...is a love affair like no other.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 4/20/2007 4:01:15 PM >

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 60

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