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RE: The good submissive - 4/20/2007 9:04:59 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings mariab,

not sure i would define these as "dynamics," more personality traits, skills, abilities, attributes, what have you. but these are the things that i find important to -my- submission and to our relationship and that i do my best to cultivate and maintain:

grace in service, unself-conscious surrender, honesty, openness, willingness, being pleasurable in my words and actions, respect (for others and myself), trust (for my dominant and myself), communication - learning to talk/write more, attentiveness to detail, obedience...the list is endless, these are just the first that pop up to me. and of course many of them overlap...it certainly isn't a case of, "well, i'll do this to work on honesty today, and i'll do this to work on communication tomorrow," and i don't think that it's possible to master any of these...it's definitely a journey.

respectfully,
annabelle.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 21

RE: The good submissive - 4/20/2007 9:19:43 PM

greeneyes1962

Posts: 117
Joined: 9/7/2005
Status: offline

"All I can add to that is ‘integrity’ and being able to have the ability to sacrifice your own ethics. "

And why do you believe a sub/slave should sacrifice their own ethics? I have to completely disagree with that statement.

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 22

RE: The good submissive - 4/21/2007 3:54:41 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: greeneyes1962

"All I can add to that is ‘integrity’ and being able to have the ability to sacrifice your own ethics. "

And why do you believe a sub/slave should sacrifice their own ethics? I have to completely disagree with that statement.

Ok I will explain as best I can what I mean. ‘ethics’ comes under many headings and is probably one of the widest words used in human debate. Lets take ‘self actualization’. This to me expresses how one can make the most of ones ability to be the best you possibly can. We all have moral certainty, moral values and moral reasoning but there is such a thing as good and bad ethics. An example of this is bad ethics = prejudice and goot ethics = the lack of prejudice. Sometimes one makes a conscious judgement because of the way we have been moulded by others. In other words we have conformed
Lets take someone who has a failing business. He believes his moral values are good but in fact it is those very moral values that are making his business fail. If he really wants to save that business then the very first thing he must do is look at his own ethics.

(in reply to greeneyes1962)

Post #: 23

RE: The good submissive - 4/21/2007 4:05:49 AM

MariaB

Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

greetings mariab,

not sure i would define these as "dynamics," more personality traits, skills, abilities, attributes, what have you. but these are the things that i find important to -my- submission and to our relationship and that i do my best to cultivate and maintain:

grace in service, unself-conscious surrender, honesty, openness, willingness, being pleasurable in my words and actions, respect (for others and myself), trust (for my dominant and myself), communication - learning to talk/write more, attentiveness to detail, obedience...the list is endless, these are just the first that pop up to me. and of course many of them overlap...it certainly isn't a case of, "well, i'll do this to work on honesty today, and i'll do this to work on communication tomorrow," and i don't think that it's possible to master any of these...it's definitely a journey.

respectfully,
annabelle.

but surely this is the same as 'psychodynamics' because our skills and abilities come from motivation?

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 24

RE: The good submissive - 4/21/2007 9:02:12 AM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

greetings mariab,

perhaps. i tend to think of dynamics as something in relation to the other person, and the things i listed are things i actively try to cultivate in myself, independent of the dynamics we have, although not unaffected by them. i think it is simply a matter of semantics, and only put that in my post because that's how i personally see those things; i didn't consider it at all a major distinction or major part of my post.

annabelle.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 25

RE: The good submissive - 4/21/2007 10:49:02 AM

santalia

Posts: 142
Joined: 1/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

learning how to communicate with your Master in a way that works for both of you

Yes, this is one thing i've been working on learning myself. There have been a few instances over the past few months when i've tried to communicate with my Master and i haven't done it quite as well as i might have and things got lost in translation, so to speak. Learning how to communicate in a way that works for all involved is definitely one of the more important things to do early on, i think.

-santalia{JR}t

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

Post #: 26

RE: The good submissive - 4/21/2007 12:56:04 PM

Suleiman

Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline

Loyalty.

It is, quite possibly, the single strongest drive within my psyche. So long as I do not feel that my loyalty has been abused, I will find the stamina to keep going, however rough the road is. I suppose it helps that I'm pig-headed stubborn, too.

Mind you, that same attribute which I think makes me an exceptional sub, also is the attribute that I think makes me an exceptional dom. But then, like anybody else, I have to work with what I've got.

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 27

RE: The good submissive - 4/21/2007 1:37:53 PM

longtimemuse

Posts: 15
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline

Self respect

Self awareness

Authenticity

Honesty

_____________________________

Some people like us. Some people don't... Variety is the Spice of life.

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 28

RE: The good submissive - 4/21/2007 2:58:52 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

quote:

ORIGINAL: greeneyes1962

"All I can add to that is ‘integrity’ and being able to have the ability to sacrifice your own ethics. "

And why do you believe a sub/slave should sacrifice their own ethics? I have to completely disagree with that statement.

Ok I will explain as best I can what I mean. ‘ethics’ comes under many headings and is probably one of the widest words used in human debate. Lets take ‘self actualization’. This to me expresses how one can make the most of ones ability to be the best you possibly can. We all have moral certainty, moral values and moral reasoning but there is such a thing as good and bad ethics. An example of this is bad ethics = prejudice and goot ethics = the lack of prejudice. Sometimes one makes a conscious judgement because of the way we have been moulded by others. In other words we have conformed
Lets take someone who has a failing business. He believes his moral values are good but in fact it is those very moral values that are making his business fail. If he really wants to save that business then the very first thing he must do is look at his own ethics.

I would disagree about this, morals and ethics are certainly not always the same, but there is something to say about people that do not compromise their principles. Principles and ethics are much more comparable. I do not compromise my principles very easily. If one does not have principles then they do not have much. A Dom that wanted to have me compromise my principles would obviously not have my best interests at heart. In fact I think that people who share similar ethics have a much broader base for a successful relationship.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 4/21/2007 3:01:01 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 29

RE: The good submissive - 4/21/2007 3:16:31 PM

notlooking2

Posts: 53
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

I am a lifestyle dominant and I am very specific in what I look for in a submissive.

I wanted to put it to the submissive/slaves on here. What do you feel are the most important dynamics for being good at what you do?
Now I know and respect that each and every one of us are different and one mans meat is another mans poison, so to speak! So, I am not asking how you like to submit or personal experiences, but asking what attributes, within your submission would you think make a long term and successful relationship?

Personally, I feel that Honesty is the key ingredient for a successful relationship. If there is Honesty trust can be build. Communication and being open minded to someone elses view are also very important. Of course there is the natural desire to submit.

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 30

RE: The good submissive - 4/21/2007 4:33:23 PM

puella

Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

Having not yet read the responses, I am not sure if this has been addressed yet or not. I am a submissive woman. This is not something I do, it is something I am. It is a completely organic part of who I am as a person. Asking me what makes me good at what I 'do' implies to me some task or endeavor you undertake consciously, like a job, or a project.

This is how this works for me (though I am sure everyone has different feelings about this). The whole concept of BDSM, for me is not about an alternative lifestyle, it is about more honestly embracing the whole of who I am as a person, and a woman. I do not need to be surrendered to a person for the various aspects of what makes me naturally submissive to seep out of me. It is in everything I do, in one manner or another, whether that means helping my sisters, or nurturing my nieces and nephews, giving to friends or helping others in my community. I prefer not to be directly in control of other adults (that does not mean that I need to be managed, I just do not like to give the orders). Even at work, I would rather do it myself than order another to do it, even though I have that ability.

Conversely, when I am surrendered to one specific individual, it is not a matter of being 'good at what I do' ... I actually think on some level this can be both a bit destructive, and can take the real focus of the relationship off of what it should be.

Someone decides they want to own me (I would hope, having learned the hard way) not because I give excellent head, can cook sublimely, keep an immaculate house, give excellent personal service, can handle pain without enjoying it...etc etc... The idea that someone would want me as a submissive because of what I do, rather than who I am, is not one I will allow to be a part of my life. It sets the woman up for several failures down the road.

The problem with defining yourself in the contexts of a performance based relationship probably doesn't need much explanation. The problems of subscribing to what I frequently call the 'slaviest slave' mentality is probably a bit less obvious. If the focus of the submissive is on what she can do to appear a more desireable crafty piece of property, the alignment of focus, in my mind is wrong. Though of course, growth and improvement as a person is an excellent and important endeavor, however doing something for the sole purpose of gaining admiration seems far less devotional than narscissistic. Anyone can learn skills, their real value and beauty, I find is in the motivation.

I am rambling, sorry.

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 31

RE: The good submissive - 4/21/2007 4:36:03 PM

adoracat

Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline

i think attitude has a lot to play in being a good submissive. Sir says i'm a born slave....i know that i was raised to be acquiescent to the males of the family, to fetch and carry for them (anything from "get me some more iced tea" to "c'mon, we're going dove hunting and i need you to carry the birds"), to do what i can to make the home atmosphere pleasant.

so i dont have to work on that bit of me, its just *there*. what i do have to fine tune is what pleases Sir, and how best to serve Him.

Honor
integrity
willingness to please
intelligence
listening and not just hearing
attitude

all of those go into being a good submissive. but just as it takes all of those things to be a good sub, another really important thing is the fit between the submissive and the Dominant. if they arent a good fit, then its going to be hard for T/them to work together and have T/them both end up happy.

kitten

(in reply to notlooking2)

Post #: 32

RE: The good submissive - 4/21/2007 7:08:43 PM

goodpet

Posts: 458
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline

Hello,
This is difficult to just list a few things. I think for me, in my 24/7 M/s relationship, it is loyality.
We are in this for the long haul. i have promise to Him many things about my mind body and soul, about my behavior, abilities and submission. But it is all for nothing if i waver and wane in my promise.
it is easy to talk the talk but i have to walk the walk everday, and to me that is loyality. Not just to Him directly but to the relationship itself.

(in reply to slaveish)

Post #: 33

RE: The good submissive - 4/22/2007 5:45:29 AM

WillowRain

Posts: 191
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: offline

quote:

So, I am not asking how you like to submit or personal experiences, but asking what attributes, within your submission would you think make a long term and successful relationship?

Interesting question. I'm going to answer with what I think has made me a good friend to those I love, regardless of dynamic. My past history has a lot of long term connections with others. If I love someone today, it is probable that I will love them and still have them in my life in ten years, in twenty. I like building for long term.

Easy going
Consistant
Kind
Loving
Loyal
Reliable
Hard Working
Giving
Able to forgive and let go
Able to change

that's it. For specific other kinds of connections, being a hedonist with a high libedo doesn't hurt either.

(in reply to MariaB)

Post #: 34

RE: The good submissive - 4/22/2007 6:48:29 AM

spankmepink11

Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline

I think the attributes i bring come from just being me. My attributes as a person. They just happen to mesh completely with the dynamic i desire.

(in reply to slaveish)

Post #: 35

RE: The good submissive - 4/22/2007 12:35:11 PM

kaie

Posts: 17
Joined: 4/17/2007
Status: offline

Greetings All,

When i think of attributes i think of things that you are born with. Things that make you who you are without you having to learn them. Some things i've read here i would characterize more as talents or learned activities than i would attributes. Not to say they don't help when you're a submissive, just not what i would call attributes. i could be reading way too much into semantics here, and if that's the case i do apologize.

some of my attributes that i think contribute to my submissiveness/make me a "good" submissive:

honesty
sincerity
curiousity
adaptablility
need to please

i do wish to add that i don't think a submissive has to LIKE to serve to be a submissive. Again, i might be reading more into the words than needed, but many subs don't have to serve to please their Doms. i like to please Him, but that doesn't always require me to be of service to Him. Sometimes it pleases Him for me to get out of the house and go to the library, or go take a nap, or go to the Dr., or get my nails done. Not things i normally do for myself, and not things that i would consider are being of SERVICE to Him but PLEASING to Him if that's what He wants.

(in reply to spankmepink11)

Post #: 36

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