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RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/21/2007 5:50:54 PM   
nonsequiteur


Posts: 3
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline 		I think that there were alot of valid points made here so far. But honestly, I dont see very many peoples minds being changed. Why? Because the people that are against them feel that way due to the emotional reaction that guns are bad because they have the potential to kill people. Its not a rational opinion, its an emotional one. They assume that everyone who wants to own one, or currently own one must have a desire to kill other people. Well guess what? Knives have the potential to kill people, the last time you were in the kitchen chopping up your tomatoes, did you feel the wild impulse to plunge that knife hilt deep into somebodies chest? The last time I picked up my gun I felt no such corresponding impulse.
The most important reason gun ownership was included in the Bill of Rights really wasnt personal protection on the homeowners level, it was personal protection at the National level. If people have no way of protecting themselves from the megalomaniacs that seek the power that "We The People" give them, then they will be walked all over. Our rights Do have the potential to be taken away, just as peoples rights have been taken away in So many countries worldwide when a group with either a sufficiently opposing viewpoint, or just someone who Wants to control whatever country takes control. They are called Coups. It happens quite frequently and usually violently. We are not immune from them, weve had one major successful coup in our country, and one major unsuccessful one so far in our short history. It will happen again. The largest defense against this happening is for the government/individual seeking power to fear the masses. If your military force is outnumbered by the civilians who are armed, your not really going to want to waste your military force trying to disarm all those civilians in order to try to take charge, your going to seek easier prey.
So, to those of you who feel that allowing continued gun ownership is just a way to keep the criminals armed, I submit that it is keeping the criminals from taking power and is preserving our way of life. We are a Republic, if you dont believe it, recite your US Pledge of Alligience. If you all want to Keep this a Republic, with Individual Human Rights as well as all the freedoms we currently enjoy, allow those of us who want to protect those freedoms we all enjoy to continue to keep the criminals afraid. And if you all read this and think Im being paranoid and that all politicians Must be looking out for Our greater good, can I gain entry into Your private little world, it must be nice in Shangri-La where you think You live. In the Real world its been Proven that the most politicians are looking out for Their greater good...

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/21/2007 5:58:32 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Awesome first post! Welcome to the boards.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to nonsequiteur)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/21/2007 7:34:38 PM   
BalletBob


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah, and they keep saying that guns don't kill people, people do. Well, it should be People WITH GUNS KILL ! The only thing a Handgun was made for, was to KILL PEOPLE ! Not for Hunting for food, but for killing people. They should Outlaw Handguns and close down the Gun Manufacters, who are just as gready as the Oil Companies. They are only out for the money, no matter how many people they kill to get it. And WHO is in Washington, supporting the Gun Lobbies? The same Good Ole Boys who support the big Oil Companies, and $5.00 Per Gal. Gasoline, and the Tobacco Companies.

Go Figure !

Disgusted, BalletBob

< Message edited by BalletBob -- 4/21/2007 7:36:07 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/21/2007 8:03:56 PM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BalletBob

Yeah, and they keep saying that guns don't kill people, people do. Well, it should be People WITH GUNS KILL ! The only thing a Handgun was made for, was to KILL PEOPLE ! Not for Hunting for food, but for killing people. They should Outlaw Handguns and close down the Gun Manufacters, who are just as gready as the Oil Companies. They are only out for the money, no matter how many people they kill to get it. And WHO is in Washington, supporting the Gun Lobbies? The same Good Ole Boys who support the big Oil Companies, and $5.00 Per Gal. Gasoline, and the Tobacco Companies.

Go Figure !

Disgusted, BalletBob



Hmmm... employed Lynrd Skynrd lyrics as the body of the argument, scathing attack on capitalism, blamed Bush. I give this troll post a 7.2: solid emotional ranting, but a little lacking on the anger. I would have liked to see some personal insults about gun owners in general and maybe a reference to Hitler... but it had a good beat that I could dance to. Yeah, 7.2.

(in reply to BalletBob)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/21/2007 8:13:30 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Personally, I have no wish to own a gun a) because I don't hunt b) I have no interest in guns c) the strangest one I find is the logic that guns will protect people from the government - the government can get everything they want without resorting to invading someone's home - if I want change, I prefer the ballot box - I'm not of the opinion that a gun will protect my interests.

Having said all of that, I'm not convinced there is a sound argument to suggest guns need to be banned, whereas say alcohol doesn't. Maybe it could be argued that alcohol abuse is self-imposed harm, whereas gun murders are not, and then there is the responsibility to society angle to think about.



Well put, NorthernGent.  I agree completely.

Sinergy

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(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/22/2007 4:54:53 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

The only doubt in my mind is that a gun enables someone to go on a killing spree whereas it would be much more difficult with a knife, the chances of killing 30 people with a knife is non-existent. How does this fit with your defence of gun ownership?

anyone can say their own piece----
but I am separating some questions here, and I know what you said was in a context that was separate from my rant, NG.

I own guns because I can. 
every human owns some nasty carnal shit in them (even mother teresa did)
Borya's were decent in the field of poison.
Your guy---name escapes me had the propensity to strangle and drop in hogsheads of acid (Swindon massiv) or Jack the ripper-----

'ere's da fing guv'
Deux ex machina-----
so here is a little ubitquious machine that can kill quickly, or kill slowly, and it is not the gun-------

it is the player behind  or in front of the machine
so CHO or whoever, kills 32 in a minute or a year............

is it a timing thing?

The Hill----------(the movie) What do you think this is Chicago?

LOL,
Ron



is it a timing thing?
 
Only if he has the skills to go on a 3 year murdering spree.

Every human may have nasty carnal shit inside them, but the idea's not to feed this side. You wouldn't give Jack the Ripper a bag full of surgical equipment and send him on his way with a map of the East End of London complete with brothels marked with a big red knife, or the Swindon Massiv the latest drum and bass tracks and some weed, and then invite them 'round for a chat.

As it stands, it doesn't seem to me that banning guns is the answer to social problems, and I know what you're saying Ron - fuck society, I own a gun because I can - a different outlook.






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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/22/2007 5:24:34 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BalletBob

Yeah, and they keep saying that guns don't kill people, people do. Well, it should be People WITH GUNS KILL ! The only thing a Handgun was made for, was to KILL PEOPLE ! Not for Hunting for food, but for killing people. They should Outlaw Handguns and close down the Gun Manufacters, who are just as gready as the Oil Companies. They are only out for the money, no matter how many people they kill to get it. And WHO is in Washington, supporting the Gun Lobbies? The same Good Ole Boys who support the big Oil Companies, and $5.00 Per Gal. Gasoline, and the Tobacco Companies.

Go Figure !

Disgusted, BalletBob


Guns are toys for the boys just like sports cars that can do over 150mph. Its erection replacement therapy. They can pretend to be hard nut starship troopers and fantasize about being Hollywood heroes. They are about gratifying their testosterone soaked egos. For all the tough guy talk ,no doubt they'll shit their pants should they find themselves in the position of really needing to use a gun. Though no dounbt that 1% of clinical psychopaths that are in every population will really enjoy having guns to play with in real situations.

How's that pulpsmack?

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RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/22/2007 5:41:51 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Well gosh, that was constructive and certainly has me considering another point of view.....in an odd "your mother wears.....nanny, nanny, boo boo" sort of way.

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Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/22/2007 7:00:28 AM   
Sicarius


Posts: 180
Joined: 2/26/2007
From: New Orleans
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pulpsmack
quote:

ORIGINAL: BalletBob
Yeah, and they keep saying that guns don't kill people, people do. Well, it should be People WITH GUNS KILL ! The only thing a Handgun was made for, was to KILL PEOPLE ! Not for Hunting for food, but for killing people. They should Outlaw Handguns and close down the Gun Manufacters, who are just as gready as the Oil Companies. They are only out for the money, no matter how many people they kill to get it. And WHO is in Washington, supporting the Gun Lobbies? The same Good Ole Boys who support the big Oil Companies, and $5.00 Per Gal. Gasoline, and the Tobacco Companies.
Go Figure !
Disgusted, BalletBob


Hmmm... employed Lynrd Skynrd lyrics as the body of the argument, scathing attack on capitalism, blamed Bush. I give this troll post a 7.2: solid emotional ranting, but a little lacking on the anger. I would have liked to see some personal insults about gun owners in general and maybe a reference to Hitler... but it had a good beat that I could dance to. Yeah, 7.2.



Well, I figure if any discussion will drag me into the forums, it might as well be this one.  First of all, to Pulpsmack, I've thoroughly enjoyed the commentary from a fellow Louisianian.  Kudos on keeping them on the run for so long.

I'd have to say that on the whole I am both surprised and proud of the reactions that I've seen on this thread.  In an age where it seems that advocating core Conservative principles will all but blacklist you from any forum or discussion group, this is quite the breath of fresh air.

In response to BalletBob and some of the others here who have questioned the reason why Americans buy, own, and maintain deadly weapons, I would like to interject the one resounding point that I feel has not been fully articulated (perhaps on account of how controversial it is).  As the basis of my point, I will first invoke the hated and loved Amendment that we all seem to be discussing so readily.

Amendment II:  "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

There is some debate surrounding the interpretation of the Second Amendment itself.  I will explain my personal view whilst making the point that at the time it was drafted, the war for Independence was fresh in the mind of the Framers.  It was understood then that in order to resist a government that is no longer representative of the interests of its citizens that firearms would be required to earn freedom.  The Second Amendment was put into place first and foremost because the Framers realized that if at any point in time the American government became a totalitarian regime, it would be the responsibility of the citizenship to topple the government and reimpose order.

Consider for a moment the two sections of the Second Amendment:

1.)  "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, ..."
2.)  "... the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

While other interpretations are possible, it is not irrational to read the Second Amendment's two segments this way:

1.)  "Because it is necessary for the government to maintain a military force to provide security for a free State ..."
2.)  "... the rights of the people to keep and bear weapons shall not be infringed, so that if such a time comes as the people must overcome this military force, they will be prepared to do so."

The forceful overthrow of the newly-established American government was held first and foremost in the minds of the Framers, and they built the Second Amendment into the Constitution in order to ensure that if and when the time came that we, their progeny, would be prepared to rise to the occasion as they were required to do against England.

In a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1787, this famous quote was included: 

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure..."

Many of you who do not understand your responsibility as Americans to watch over the government for signs of tyranny and oppression, and to act if that time arrives, have questioned why weapons should not be outlawed entirely.  You have asked why we should not simply call the police.  While you are certainly entitled to do so, you must understand that by surrendering your ability to defend yourself, you become reliant upon the government for every facet of your existence.  You are no longer a Citizen of a free nation, but a guest who is allowed to exist in the shadow of liberty.  Choose that path if you wish, and I will not condemn you for it ... but do not presume to condemn those of us who would rather rely upon ourselves for our defense and the representation of our interests.

For now you will call the police to protect you from an intruder ... but I wonder who you will have to call if ever it is the police themselves from who you require protection?  You may call me paranoid and eccentric if you wish, but history does not review kindly the pacifist in the instances of tyrannical abuse.

I will close my introductory post with a single quote by John Stuart Mill.  While it does not apply perfectly to what we are discussing here, I believe that the underpinnings and basic idea are sound for this discussion:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

I wish you all the best,

-Sicarius

(in reply to Pulpsmack)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/22/2007 8:40:16 AM   
Slavetrainer2007


Posts: 231
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

In today's LA Times, there's an op ed by James Q. Wilson called "Gun Control Isn't the Answer" (it's actually titled "In Defense of Guns" in my copy of the print edition).  Two interesting quotes:

Quote 1
"If we want to guess by how much the U.S. murder rate would fall if civilians had no guns, we should begin by realizing — as criminologists Franklin Zimring and Gordon Hawkins have shown — that the non-gun homicide rate in this country is three times higher than the non-gun homicide rate in England. For historical and cultural reasons, Americans are a more violent people than the English, even when they can't use a gun. This fact sets a floor below which the murder rate won't be reduced even if, by some constitutional or political miracle, we became gun-free."

Quote 2
"AS FOR THE European disdain for our criminal culture, many of those countries should not spend too much time congratulating themselves. In 2000, the rate at which people were robbed or assaulted was higher in England, Scotland, Finland, Poland, Denmark and Sweden than it was in the United States. The assault rate in England was twice that in the United States. In the decade since England banned all private possession of handguns, the BBC reported that the number of gun crimes has gone up sharply.

Some of the worst examples of mass gun violence have also occurred in Europe. In recent years, 17 students and teachers were killed by a shooter in one incident at a German public school; 14 legislators were shot to death in Switzerland, and eight city council members were shot to death near Paris."

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-wilson20apr20,0,4514008.story?coll=la-opinion-center



I find  the anti gun stance to be well very narrowminded is the nice way to put it. my  slave is british.  Most normal people cant have guns and i think in some cases the police dont carry either( dont quote me on that i believe that is what she told me) But their are still guns in the UK. People still get shot. their are still automatic weapons.

Lets look at this realistically. People who use guns illegally are criminals.  What makes anti-gun people think a criminal that is going to commit  a violent crime( such as a robbery) not use a gun because its illegal for them to  have a gun? Thats got to be the dumbest logic i ever heard of.

Further more lets take my friend for instance. He is a law abiding citizen... that own over 4 dozen legal  guns. Where i live people own guns. i dont live in the city. and if you break into a house here you more than likely to be meet the business end of a  mossburg pump.  Considering  that i live in an area of small towns  and their are probably more guns per person than  cars per person.  Its just not real smart to  try a violent crime here.  The last peron i remember getting shot with a gun was last year i think  and it was his own gun and he pulled the trigger.

The fact is this guns dont kill people, irresponsible and criminal people  kill people. most gun owners here can  hit a quarter at 100 yds with a rifle. you dont see them sitting on roof tops in DC sniping people.

You want gun control  heres gun control for you . take all those people that used guns in violent crimes.  all those gangbangers,  put dog tags  on them  give them automatic weapons  and kelvar vest  stick them in the army  in their own division send them to hotspots such as iraq and tell them their ya go you want to kill people. I bet 3/4 of the ones that come back  dont ever want to touch another gun again.

You want to control gun related crime.  make it legal for everyone over 18 to carry concealed weapons without a permit. i bet the  gun related crime rate drastically drops. Criminals think twice before pulling a gun on somone when they know   its very likely they and anyone  else in the area might have  a gun.

Actually city folks( no offense to those in the city really) just need to grow up and learn how to be responsible with weapons and not use them to solve  their problems. people associate guns to much with crime and it makes them scared of guns. When i was in highschool 12 years ago we took guns to school. In fact 1/2 the male students had guns in their cars and trucks  while on school grounds for the 1st 1/2 of the school year. Your first thought.. gangbangers. My first thought, hunters.  as long as you didnt uncase the guns and start waving them around you were fine. you could even take them out of the case  and show your friends... on school grounds. One person in 4 years got in trouble for a gun on school grounds. and it was a .22 pistol he had uncased and out showing a friend and he happened to have a bad reputation as a trouble maker. He got a $500 fine and  40 hours community service and 6 months probation.

So tell me why guns come on my local high school campus hundreds of times year and we dont have metal detectors and we dont have school shootings? Ill tell you why. Because raised in the country you  respect guns and what they can do.  You dont think of a gun as weapon to settle a dispute or grievence you think of it as part of a hobby( hunting) or way to kill food. ( city people spend $100 for a roasted duck  we spend 50 cents on a shotgun shell for roasted duck)

You take guns away from the american  public and your basically giving violent criminals free reign.

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RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/22/2007 9:14:24 AM   
Slavetrainer2007


Posts: 231
Joined: 12/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BalletBob

Yeah, and they keep saying that guns don't kill people, people do. Well, it should be People WITH GUNS KILL ! The only thing a Handgun was made for, was to KILL PEOPLE ! Not for Hunting for food, but for killing people. They should Outlaw Handguns and close down the Gun Manufacters, who are just as gready as the Oil Companies. They are only out for the money, no matter how many people they kill to get it. And WHO is in Washington, supporting the Gun Lobbies? The same Good Ole Boys who support the big Oil Companies, and $5.00 Per Gal. Gasoline, and the Tobacco Companies.

Go Figure !

Disgusted, BalletBob



Actually handguns are used for hunting, also, as is rifles and shotguns. Lets say they ban handguns.  make them illegal and they quit being manufactured in the US along will all handgun ammuniton... Problem solved! no more gun related crime..

Oh yeah their is beretta and glock those arent american manufacturers. Oh wait actually quite a few worldwide gun manufacturers.  Hand guns are still obtainable by criminals( if you need a gun to cimmit a crime chances are you are going to commit the crime to obtain the gun illegally)  but wait... the american public cant own handguns now. So unless this person is a  undercover cop, more than likely he isnt armed( considering its hard to conceal a rifle or shotgun in casual everyday clothing) and if isnt armed and i am  he is a good target.

Lets face reality proven by the UK.  It dont matter if you ban every weapon right down to the butter knife. crinimals give to squats about what is legal... think about it.  Somewhere some country is going to allow, and have to for military purposes , the production of handguns. Some how those hand guns are going to make it through the black market to  crinimals who are then going to use them on people who cant legally own a gun and are law abiding and those  law abiding people are going to get robbed raped or shot. or all 3.

Facts:
1) Gun were invented and cannot be disinvented.
2) Guns have been and more than likely will be used  to kill  things. thats what they were invented for.
3) Your not going to get rid of all the guns in the world in your lifetime.
4) criminals dont abide by laws hence why we call them criminals
5) since criminals dont abide by laws, they are probably going to ignore a gun law.
6) making guns or certain type of guns illegal  only affects law abiding citizens. This is like making  the speed limit 65. It only affects people who  drives as fast as the sign  not as fast as they need or want too.
7) currently any lawbiding citizen can own a gun. therefore its probable that the guy you are robbing not only may have a bigger gun but may be a more accurate shot. So you have to ask yourself: is his stereo REALLY that nice?
8) removing guns from law abiding citizens means we have to  depend on police. It takes 6-8 minutes for police to get to my house unless one just happens to be close by.  Thats after dispatch  recieves the call and dispatches. It will take at least another 3-4 minutes min for someone to place the call . At minimium i could  go on a 10 min shooting  spree and kill 15-20 people at least before the first  person that is able to take me out even gets close enough to  hear the gunshots.  IF my neighbor owns a gun and i choose him as the next target then it is very possible he could kill me first in self defense and thus not only save his life but others. 
9) people want to ban guns because they dont understand them, know how to use them, and therefore fear them . People are dangerous, not guns. The US has 12000 nuclear weapons.   but if iran make one  everyone gets nervous.  why? because its not the nuclear weapons people are scared of its the people that own the nuclear weapons. china russia UK and france ( all 5 permament security council members) maintain a nuclear stockpile. But we dont go banning and  sanctioning each other because we proved to be responsible with them.  We use them as a deterant for invasion and such. Same goes with  guns. Its not the guns that kill people. a gun is only as dangerous as the person using the gun.  And if he/she is dangerous enough to use a gun to kill you  then you could probably hand him/her a  plastic fast food spork and  they would still be as dangerous.
10) we dont need gun control we need violent people control.

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/22/2007 9:19:53 AM   
Slavetrainer2007


Posts: 231
Joined: 12/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: His1kitten

If you need a semi-automatic or automatic weapon for hunting, I would like to know what the hell you are hunting. 

One other thing before I leave those of you who....nevermind that,  When the constitution was written those people had no idea of what was to come.  Think of the weapons that were available then, and what is available now, to any yahoo that feels the need to prove something.    I get physically ill when I hear people try to rationalize the ownership of such weapons and the trivialization of the ease of so many people dying at the hands of one person.  You can sit there and say that you aren't until you are blue in the face, it won't change the fact in my eyes.  Not that you would care. 

Have fun. 



Try one pissed off mother black bear barreling at you at 30 mph. It can out run out climb and out swim a human. Unless you can fly you better pray you are either a damn good shot under intense pressure or have a semi auto with a 9 round clip.

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RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/22/2007 6:18:27 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/04/21/weekinreview/20070422_MARSH_GRAPHIC.html



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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Slavetrainer2007)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/25/2007 8:55:23 PM   
BalletBob


Posts: 1645
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, and OUR Militia is in IRAQ. Or is it Viet Nam? They get me confused...but then again, Viet Nam never had any Oil, or could make BILLIONS for Halburton, or how ever you spell it. How much you want to bet, ole Busy Boy gets a job with them, after he leaves office.

Sub BalletBob

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/25/2007 9:00:38 PM   
Sicarius


Posts: 180
Joined: 2/26/2007
From: New Orleans
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BalletBob

Yes, and OUR Militia is in IRAQ. Or is it Viet Nam? They get me confused...but then again, Viet Nam never had any Oil, or could make BILLIONS for Halburton, or how ever you spell it. How much you want to bet, ole Busy Boy gets a job with them, after he leaves office.

Sub BalletBob


Could you please frame this comment within the context of the discussion at hand?  I don't even know how to begin responding to it, because I'm not exactly sure what point you are making ... beyond hating Bush, Halliburton, and the war in Iraq which all seem to have nothing to do with the topic of gun control.

-Sicarius

(in reply to BalletBob)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/25/2007 9:04:32 PM   
Pulpsmack


Posts: 394
Joined: 4/15/2004
From: Louisiana
Status: offline 		Our "militia" is wearing a French maid's costume and spouting of these irrelevent nonsequitors. If the outfit is getting a paycheck signed "Uncle Sam" and they are following the orders of "the king", then they represent the antithesis of what the militia is by the founding fathers' standard. THINK about it for a moment.

(in reply to BalletBob)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/26/2007 2:03:18 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Isn't there a punk rock song that goes -
"Everybody run!  The homecoming queens gotta gun!"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
I had to post this...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070421/ap_on_re_us/brave_beauty_queen

God(dess) helps those who help themselves.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/26/2007 2:16:19 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Folks, just pause for a moment and consider, the USA
is the only country in the world to have a -
 
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms!
 
Anybody know when the ATF began and what was the
rational for combing these three things, 1 being a crop
used for smoking, 1 being fermented fruits and grains 
and 1 being manufactured weapons?
 
I am guessing that tobacco and alcohol were lucrative to
tax and that during Prohibtion the guns were necessary
for the guys smuggling alcohol.  Any other conjectures?


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Individual freedom and responsibility to society need to be balanced, but the argument that say alcohol is in the interests of society, but guns aren't, doesn't seem a balanced argument to me - based on the real consequences of both.


_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/26/2007 8:03:10 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavetrainer2007

Actually handguns are used for hunting, also, as is rifles and shotguns. Lets say they ban handguns.  make them illegal and they quit being manufactured in the US along will all handgun ammuniton... Problem solved! no more gun related crime..



I was working up in Alaska the year a man shot and killed the largest Grizzly Bear ever recorded.  This bear standing on it's hind legs was 13 and some odd feet tall.  In other words, it could stand up and look over the roof of your house.

This bear attacked him while he was out hiking, and he dropped it with a .44 Automag semi-automatic pistol with, if I remember correctly, hollow point ammunition.  Took him 5 shots to get it to stop charging, and the 6th shot into the brain at the base of the skull to kill it.

The grizzly bear had 4 recent rounds from a .38 in its chest, as well as a partially digested human in it's belly.

If I remember right, it was taken and stuffed / mounted and is on display at the airport in Anchorage.

I have posted my issues on self defense against guns on other threads, and banning guns is not really an option I feel comfortable with even though I do not personally own a gun.

Sinergy

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(in reply to Slavetrainer2007)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Interesting stats on guns and crime - 4/26/2007 11:36:55 AM   
selfbnd411


Posts: 598
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

I am guessing that tobacco and alcohol were lucrative to
tax and that during Prohibtion the guns were necessary
for the guys smuggling alcohol.  Any other conjectures?



Yep.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/about/atfhistory.htm

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 120
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