I know better than your Master does

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ownedgirlie -> I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:17:28 AM)
I’ve been pondering this thought for some time, and the “Anti sub drop” thread finally provoked me enough to write about it. Those who have read the thread witnessed a slave who brought an issue to the board, only to be told by the masses what is right and wrong for her, and how her owners ought to be treating her. We see this time and time again – not just in these forums but in life in general. Everyone seems to know what is best for everyone else. Interestingly, we also see threads that talk about transparency and journaling, and what great steps a Master/Mistress/Dominant takes to know his/her submissive/slave. How great that is, we all say, because who else can best know the submissive and who else can best direct him/her. I have been the recipient of “I know better than your Master” comments, both on this forum and in private conversations. It is a natural response for people to view others based on their own knowledge, history, experiences, and value systems. I’ve often quoted Don Miguel Ruiz’s “The Four Agreements” where he talks about each of us having our “story” and viewing the world and others solely from that story, without greater understanding of those whom we are viewing. I find myself baffled and sometimes offended (although not as much anymore) at a phenomenon I personally experience on occasion. I am in a long term, intense, intimate relationship, in which the man who owns me has taken a LOT of time and effort to know every nook and cranny of my mind and heart. He knows me better than anyone in my life has known me, because he has found it that important to. He has taught me to know myself equally well. And he has taken this knowledge of me to make the best decisions for me, based on what he knows my needs to be. Yet those who have only engaged with me at far minimum levels presume to know that is right for me, more than he does. Their comments, judgments, suggestions, and flat out rudeness is based on their view of themselves, and has nothing to do with the intimacies of my heart. How one can presume to know what my deepest needs are, better than the one who studies me daily and knows everything about me since I was born, is preposterous. In the other thread, some folks actually admitted had they not known the OP better, they would have advised differently. I wonder if, and I truly hope, we can all think twice before screaming “abuse!” at someone, or before we tell a slave her Master doesn’t care about her, or before we accuse someone of “chest thumping” and acting ape-like (as said in yet another thread last night) for managing his slave the way he sees is best, simply because we don’t understand that form of management. I never thought I would post a "rant" on these boards, but one of the reasons I held off writing this thread is because there really isn’t a question to ask here. How about – can we simply be more aware and thoughtful, that what is right for us is not necessarily the right way for others? We say that all the time, but our reactions to people really show otherwise. Enjoy your day.

dawntreader -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:26:52 AM)
It is my opinion that when we post here, we are opening ourselves up the the very thing you are ranting about. If i have an issue that i bring to this forum it is because i have not found a satisfactory answer on my own or with the one i am with. i am "inviting" others to asses my situation based on their limited knowledge and offer advice. Responders to posts cannot be blamed for giving solicited advice. If the communication with one's Dominant or another trusted individual is not enough, then there may be communication problems beyond the posted problem. i think when a person brings personal issues here, they have to be prepared for all the advice and opinions they will recieve by those that do not know them or their situation intimately.

LaTigresse -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:27:22 AM)
Thank you for writing this owned. You have put into words things that I have often felt while reading some of the threads on here. Unfortunately, to my dismay, I find that I sometimes am guilty of this behaviour and am working very hard to stop it. At least to step back and think before typing, if I do type anything at all. I see too many get caught up in the drama and it gets childish and irresponsible. I loved what KoM wrote.He is one of the posters that I have really come to respect in this regard. For me it goes back to personal accountability or as some put it, taking the high road.

MsLadySue -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:27:53 AM)
Very well written ownedgirlie. I agree with you completely.

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:30:13 AM)
Nicely said, owned. I see what you mean all the time on these boards. Not so much in real life though, but I think thats because most people will tell the know-it-all to just fuck-off if you act this way to their face.

velvetears -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:30:55 AM)
i understand where you are coming from ownedgirlie and i agree that no one will know us better then either ourselves or the ones who own/dom us. i think people who would try to assume to know you better then your owner are ridiculous. i think people who try to tell you what you may be doing with him is harmful or dangerous somehow, truly in their hearts (for the most part anyway) do so because they think they see something harmful and dangerous and worth warning about. i am not saying they are right in doing this, but sometimes i think we need to just generally tell them "thank you for the concern, i am happy with the way things are, good luck to you." i think the more we try to defend ourselves to seemingly helpful people, the more we will have to engage that person in defending. Why even go there? i know when i was "owned" i had my friends and aquaintences tell me all sorts of stuff regarding what i was doing and making judgements and advising, but in the end the only one who mattered to me was my owner. my lack of defense became in essense my best defense.

ownedgirlie -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:34:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dawntreader It is my opinion that when we post here, we are opening ourselves up the the very thing you are ranting about. If i have an issue that i bring to this forum it is because i have not found a satisfactory answer on my own or with the one i am with. i am "inviting" others to asses my situation based on their limited knowledge and offer advice. Responders to posts cannot be blamed for giving solicited advice. If the communication with one's Dominant or another trusted individual is not enough, then there may be communication problems beyond the posted problem. i think when a person brings personal issues here, they have to be prepared for all the advice and opinions they will recieve by those that do not know them or their situation intimately. Dawntreader, only seems to happen whether a person brings issues here or not. I mentioned sleeping on the floor once, as a passing reference with no "issue" attached to it whatsoever, and I received a handful of email on the other side, telling me how abusive my Master was. There is a lot of uninvited commentary that occurs as well as invited. To the others, thank you for your kind comments.

ownedgirlie -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:40:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Unfortunately, to my dismay, I find that I sometimes am guilty of this behaviour and am working very hard to stop it. At least to step back and think before typing, if I do type anything at all. I see too many get caught up in the drama and it gets childish and irresponsible. I think we all can be guilty of it sometimes. It is human nature to interject our opinions based on our on values, particularly when they are strong ones. I won't deny never doing it myself. It is something I do try to avoid, and instead I try to ask questions to the person I'm speaking to, in an effort to help him/her come up with his/her own answers. Having been told everything from I'm in an awesome relationship to I'm in an abusive, unhealthy relationship, I understand people mean well, but I find such comments are not helpful.

simplyangelic1 -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:42:34 AM)
ownedgirlie I also agree with what you said to a point. You are indeed fortunate enough to have a Master who did what I would hope all Dominants do and that is invest the time and energy into knowing their sub or slave in every possible way. Unfortunately that isn't always the reality I've found. Sometimes the sub or slave can be too close to a harmful situtation that they don't see the danger. In those instances sometimes it is the outsiders to our personal lives that jerk us back to reality and to safety.

bliss1 -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:45:07 AM)
You also have to be aware that we are not only speaking on what we feel - but incomplete knowledge. If someone post's - be it an idea or situation - they also need to remember that those who respond are responding to the best of their abilities to the information (facts) that they see in front of them. Unfortunatly - not all of us are good mind readers.

julietsierra -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:45:54 AM)
I agree with what you said ownedgirlie. At the same time, when people are in relationships and are coming to a bunch of strangers rather than their own Masters in order to have significant relationship/couple's questions answered, I tend to think they aren't real sure the relationship they're in is worth it anyway. Certainly, they are doubting their Master's ideas and all that. So...we give our opinions - yes, based on our own stories, but also to give another point of view. That's why you'll only see posts from me that commend my Master or ask more esoteric questions, but you'll never see a post from me asking what I should do in my own relationship, or worse yet, complain about what he's doing. Even when I do post things that he does that others don't necessarily agree with, I'm not asking for their input as to whether he's right or wrong. When people do that, they are opening themselves up, and to my way of thinking, WANT to hear people tell them their Masters are wrong. Why else would they present such a negative picture of the people they belong to? So anyway, while I agree with you, the other side of that coin is if a submissive/slave doesn't want others to tell him/her what they don't want to hear, that person should be more than a tad more... prudent... as to what is posted. That "your Master is wrong" street runs both ways and if the submissive has willingly sat in the driver's seat of the car going down that road... well, then, he/she needs to adjust the rear-view mirror so that the reflection shows what the real problem is - or understand that what people are saying are simply different viewpoints of the question that's been posed. When people make comments about my Master based on the little I post here, I just presume they don't know him very well, and don't understand the relationship we have, and even if they do, that it's just not for them - which is just perfect, because like Goldilocks and the three bears....it's juuuuusst right for me. And I rarely care if others have issues with what he does or doesn't do. juliet

ownedgirlie -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:46:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: simplyangelic1 In those instances sometimes it is the outsiders to our personal lives that jerk us back to reality and to safety. When I was in a previously harmful situation, the only way I saw it was when some very kind people asked me a series of questions about myself, which brought me to see my own answers. Telling me my partner was an rotten asshole only made me retreat further inside myself to handle it alone.

hisannabelle -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:46:59 AM)
greetings ownedgirlie, the simple fact is that often when we respond to posts, they are posts asking for advice based on very limited information. should we just not respond to a large number of posts, then, because we don't know the whole story? i don't always presume that the poster's owners know them inside and out, because sometimes they don't; take the "i never wanted to be poly" thread in the poly forum. that, to me, was a clear-cut case of the master lying to the submissive and then trying to push her into something she wasn't comfortable doing and never thought she had agreed to do. yes, i am saying that based on limited information, but based on her feedback, it seems i (and other posters) were right. i am not saying that we won't get things wrong, that we won't make assumptions, etc. the wonderful thing about that is that's really the only way to respond to this other than to refrain from responding with any sort of advice...AND the op does not have to TAKE the advice. it's very easy just to overlook advice that you consider to be unhelpful from a place of wrong assumption, or to post, "thank you for the thoughts," and perhaps add a note about why the assumption was wrong. i posted a thread in ask a submissive about inadequate aftercare, and a whole bunch of responses seemed to me as though people automatically assumed my dominant must be neglectful, or something like that, when in reality his actions at this time were perfectly understandable (to me) - i just wanted to know how people coped with inadequate aftercare regardless of how the situation got to be that way. so i simply tried to explain that he wasn't being neglectful, and then sifted the jewels from the ruffage. the fact is, although no one can know us better than those who own us and we ourselves, i can't imagine any other method of operating on this board other than to not post at all when it's possible i might be making an assumption, in which case i would not post a large percentage of the time. i think that it's the responsibility of the original poster, when getting responses like this, to be able to overlook or respond unshaken to wrong assumptions...we do not HAVE to let responses on a message board affect our relationships; we can CHOOSE to take certain pieces of advice and ignore others. respectfully, annabelle.

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:50:18 AM)
Thankyou for this very nicely put post... it is something i will take to heart

ownedgirlie -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:50:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: julietsierra So anyway, while I agree with you, the other side of that coin is if a submissive/slave doesn't want others to tell him/her what they don't want to hear, that person should be more than a tad more... prudent... as to what is posted. That "your Master is wrong" street runs both ways and if the submissive has willingly sat in the driver's seat of the car going down that road... well, then, he/she needs to adjust the rear-view mirror so that the reflection shows what the real problem is - or understand that what people are saying are simply different viewpoints of the question that's been posed. Great point, Juliet and I understand what you're saying. Like you, I don't post relationship issues here, either. However, I still find myself dismayed at times, to realize "being prudent" sometimes means being on an island.

spankmepink11 -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:52:49 AM)
Owned, you're right, that does go on alot. But you really cannot fault people for replying in whatever way their opinion leads them when a topic is brought to a public forum. Some do it well, others don't. Some jump to conclusions, some make grandiose generalizations, some are narrow minded...others open...the list goes on. Even more prevelant in my eyes, is the fact that while one cannot control the opinions of another, they do seem to react very strongly to dissenting opinions, especially when those opinions are peppered with "hot button" words (for lack of a better term) such as real, true, just...etc. This doesn't include the few who seem to not be able to convey a thought without denigrating those of a dissenting view, i pretty much ignore them . I noticed in another thread, one of the posters stated her opinions very clearly, not using any of those hot button words, and not one person took offence, other posters had similiar opinions who did insert some of those pesky little words....and people were quick to take offense. We let these words hold so much power over our selfimage, self identification etc. I'm wondering when people will stop searching for validation from anyone other than the person with whom they are involved. The exchange of ideas and opinions can be a very healthy endeavor when applied properly .

juliaoceania -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:54:11 AM)
Here is my thoughts what you have stated.... if the submissive/slave in question is coming here and asking for our advice and not relying on their master/dom for said input, that does invite other opinions into their dynamic. If people do not want advice or become offended by it, and they asked for that advice, they need to look in the mirror to find the problem. It is not the people on the message board, it is themselves. If people are offering up opinions based upon someone relating an aspect of their dynamic, and giving unasked for advice, that is somewhat rude I suppose. I also do not see a problem with people posting "If this happened to me I would feel X,Y, or Z". Expressing one's feelings about another person's dynamic by stating it would not suit their needs is not insulting that dynamic,.... it is just expressing a personal opinion

ownedgirlie -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:59:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania . I also do not see a problem with people posting "If this happened to me I would feel X,Y, or Z". Expressing one's feelings about another person's dynamic by stating it would not suit their needs is not insulting that dynamic,.... it is just expressing a personal opinion Nor do I see a problem with someone relating an issue to him/herself. However, "Your Master does that?? Wow, well he must not care about you at all" as a reaction to something that wasn't even asked about is much different. Even if someone poses a question/problem/issue, I might relate to how I would respond to it, rather than to tell the person what a jerk they're with, based on a paragraph. The counter points have been good points, however. I will still choose to not presume to know what's best for someone else, based on limited information. When I see someone in a 2 year relationship being told to leave it, simply because she is struggling with an issue, I cringe. But that's my own pet peeve, I suppose...

Aileen68 -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 8:59:43 AM)
I think a lot of times that people post personal issues in order to get support for their side. Sometimes it's consciously done, other times not. Many times the original OP has so many details missing that become vitally important as the thread plays out. It becomes impossible to get honest answers and opinions for this reason. If one is able to honestly and openly look at their personal problems, then they wouldn't need to come to a message board for answers. I find it best to keep personal issues out of the message boards and stick to generic questions for just these reasons. I rambled and none of this probably makes any sense. edited for a sticky keyboard "d"

juliaoceania -> RE: I know better than your Master does (4/21/2007 9:02:43 AM)
quote: Nor do I see a problem with someone relating an issue to him/herself. However, "Your Master does that?? Wow, well he must not care about you at all" as a reaction to something that wasn't even asked about is much different There is one particular instance that I had this knee jerk reaction to someone. I posted something along those lines, and my Daddy pointed out to me what I had done. I felt very bad about that, apologized on the thread and emailed the person because I really had no right to that judgment on their situation. Sometimes when we read something it just stirs up feelings in us and we react. That incident taught me a lot.

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