RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (Full Version)

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OfHonestValue -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 12:30:17 PM)

In the bible it shows that a women ot take take care of her husband and a man  is to keep his wife safe and provide for her. A Christain cna serve God and be in a D/s, M/s relationship at the same time. Ys I do feel bad for a few things that I do as I am not supposed to be doing them before marriage, I am not trying ot justify that. Also its importaant thati n a relationship that yo ushare the same faith with the person that you are with, it hlps to eliminate any possible future problmes that might come up that deal with faith and such.




MadRabbit -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 12:44:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Forgive him, he can be a little "zealous" at time. :)



BAH! =)

You havent even seen my real personal opinions yet.

But...yeah...what she said as far as logic in an illogical system.

Also...taking the stance that "I beleive these things are right no matter how anyone's logic proves them wrong." is a form of concientous ignorance.






slaveluci -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 12:49:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Well...except that Jesus showed quite a lot of hate, judgement and condemnation for people who disagreed with his teachings...
He said things to them like...
"Ye serpents, ye generations of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"
That sounds very judgemental and condeming on his part.
And he taught things like...
"Whosever speakth against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this World or the world to come."
Eternal damnation for anyone that questioned what he was saying...

You are correct, He did.  i am not a theologian or scholar but my feelings about this are:  Jesus was God in the flesh.  In other words, it is my belief that God came to earth in the human form of Jesus.  When Jesus spoke sayings like this, He was speaking them with the authority of the Father (God).  So, when He told people that they were going to be damned, He had the authority to do so and the ability to make it happen.  Whether this is considered "hateful" or not, is up for debate.  But, yes it was definitely "judgemental" because God (in the Christian world) is that ultimate judge.  That's all i can say about that.....slave luci




agirl -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 12:55:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
If I go "I really want to steal this car and I am allowed to steal the car...but...if I steal the car, I am going to hell....so I better not steal the car."
My choice was influenced by the consequence....which begs the question...how free was my choice?

Good point except Master pointed out something last night that i had not thought of when discoursing with LA:  if you don't believe in the consequence (hell), how can it influence your decision?  She was saying that when we are given a choice, it isn't free if there's a punishment attached to the "wrong" decision.  But if you don't believe a hell exists, how much of a punishment is that really?  How can it influence your decision if you don't even believe in its existance?  Kind of like the example you used about your sub....if she knows there's NO WAY she is really going to be punished for choosing incorrectly, what's to keep her from doing so?  You can't use hell as the punishment that's used to "coerce" you to follow Christianity if you don't even believe there IS a hell......slave luci


I didn't think MR was using it as an example of coercion to follow Christ, but of free or *not so free* will.

Anyhow.......I've always struggled with the very basic injustice of a *Loving Father* that can hand down a punishment to all of his children for the fuck-ups of a few of them. And his punishments are way out of proportion.....Maybe I'm the only person that thinks that *God* is the ultimate sadistic mind-fucker.

Edited to add..... Would anyone else practise this brand of *Loving Parenthood*?

agirl







slaveluci -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 12:55:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Also...taking the stance that "I beleive these things are right no matter how anyone's logic proves them wrong." is a form of concientous ignorance.

maybe, MadRabbit....but i'm not into anyone else's logic on this, simply my own.  My faith is what it is and i don't care how logic or anyone else's opinions fit in.  If that's conscious ignorance, so be it.  It's just not open for debate with me.  Most other subjects, sure....but not this one....[:)]......luci




slaveluci -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 1:02:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
I didn't think MR was using it as an example of coercion to follow Christ, but of free or *not so free* will.
Could be, maybe i misunderstood.

Anyhow.......I've always struggled with the very basic injustice of a *Loving Father* that can hand down a punishment to all of his children for the fuck-ups of a few of them.

Well, it could be argued that He doesn't hand down the punishments but that by not receiving the grace and salvation He freely offers, we are choosing our own fate.  i know, i know - not saying you have to believe that - just saying some see it that way.  Also, i don't see anything in the NT that states we are responsible for anyone's "f-ups" but our own......just sayin'........
 
And his punishments are way out of proportion.....Maybe I'm the only person that thinks that *God* is the ultimate sadistic mind-fucker.
well, i'd be lying if i said it didn't bother me to hear a statement like that.  i guess we all see it differently.  All the hatemongering and twisting of Scripture aside, the four Gospels have some of the most loving, forgiving words in there that i've ever seen.  It really IS all about our perceptions, i suppose.
agirl





MadRabbit -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 1:04:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Also...taking the stance that "I beleive these things are right no matter how anyone's logic proves them wrong." is a form of concientous ignorance.

maybe, MadRabbit....but i'm not into anyone else's logic on this, simply my own.  My faith is what it is and i don't care how logic or anyone else's opinions fit in.  If that's conscious ignorance, so be it.  It's just not open for debate with me.  Most other subjects, sure....but not this one....[:)]......luci


quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

The Indian said "The world rested on an elephant and the elephant rested upon a tortoise." and when people asked "How about the tortoise?" the Indian said "Suppose we change the subject."




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 1:04:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
maybe, MadRabbit....but i'm not into anyone else's logic on this, simply my own.  My faith is what it is and i don't care how logic or anyone else's opinions fit in.  If that's conscious ignorance, so be it.  It's just not open for debate with me.  Most other subjects, sure....but not this one..........luci

Oh I think all of us have irrational/illogical parts to us.  The important thing is admitting their lack of logic.  After that, who cares.




MadRabbit -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 1:06:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Well...except that Jesus showed quite a lot of hate, judgement and condemnation for people who disagreed with his teachings...
He said things to them like...
"Ye serpents, ye generations of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"
That sounds very judgemental and condeming on his part.
And he taught things like...
"Whosever speakth against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this World or the world to come."
Eternal damnation for anyone that questioned what he was saying...

You are correct, He did.  i am not a theologian or scholar but my feelings about this are:  Jesus was God in the flesh.  In other words, it is my belief that God came to earth in the human form of Jesus.  When Jesus spoke sayings like this, He was speaking them with the authority of the Father (God).  So, when He told people that they were going to be damned, He had the authority to do so and the ability to make it happen.  Whether this is considered "hateful" or not, is up for debate.  But, yes it was definitely "judgemental" because God (in the Christian world) is that ultimate judge.  That's all i can say about that.....slave luci


Well...to repond to this...I would have to broach on the subject of Jesus's immortality.

And that subject is more or less a contest between what I believe and what you believe...

A contest that wont have much point compared to all the other subjects I've responded to.





MadRabbit -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 1:07:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I didn't think MR was using it as an example of coercion to follow Christ, but of free or *not so free* will.



I wasnt. There is just a fine line between the two.




MadRabbit -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 1:09:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
maybe, MadRabbit....but i'm not into anyone else's logic on this, simply my own.  My faith is what it is and i don't care how logic or anyone else's opinions fit in.  If that's conscious ignorance, so be it.  It's just not open for debate with me.  Most other subjects, sure....but not this one..........luci

Oh I think all of us have irrational/illogical parts to us.  The important thing is admitting their lack of logic.  After that, who cares.


I agree and a fine place to end this. I want to fall in love. Thats pretty irrational and illogical =).




slaveluci -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 1:10:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Also...taking the stance that "I beleive these things are right no matter how anyone's logic proves them wrong." is a form of concientous ignorance.

maybe, MadRabbit....but i'm not into anyone else's logic on this, simply my own.  My faith is what it is and i don't care how logic or anyone else's opinions fit in.  If that's conscious ignorance, so be it.  It's just not open for debate with me.  Most other subjects, sure....but not this one....[:)]......luci


quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

The Indian said "The world rested on an elephant and the elephant rested upon a tortoise." and when people asked "How about the tortoise?" the Indian said "Suppose we change the subject."


yeah, good idea...let's change the subject.....[8D]




slaveluci -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 1:13:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Oh I think all of us have irrational/illogical parts to us.  The important thing is admitting their lack of logic.  After that, who cares.

Yes, absolutely.  i never said it was logical, in fact i admitted the opposite.  That's my story and i'm stickin' to it [:)]....luci




slaveluci -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 1:17:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Well...to repond to this...I would have to broach on the subject of Jesus's immortality.
of course you would [;)]
And that subject is more or less a contest between what I believe and what you believe...
A contest that wont have much point compared to all the other subjects I've responded to.
yeah and there's really no contest.  We each believe what we believe and, to me, that's cool.  i would never stomp on another person's spiritual beliefs whether they seem logical to me or not.  i've been enjoying this thread and the way it's caused me to really self-examine what it is that i DO believe.  Thanks for the "deep" conversation......luci

 




slaveluci -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 1:19:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
I agree and a fine place to end this. I want to fall in love. Thats pretty irrational and illogical =).

Man, you said it............[:D]




SirDominic -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 2:18:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

i'm generally a nice, mild mannered, even tempered person. Perhaps that has been demonstrated by all my previous posts....in reply to the above quote i simply say ....(without the normal regaurd i would have for how this sounds) GIVE ME A FUCKIN BREAK ALREADY!!!!!!!! gee whiz on a stick!!!



Fuckin Break Given, per your request.
Namaste, Sir Dominic




agirl -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 2:18:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Oh I think all of us have irrational/illogical parts to us.  The important thing is admitting their lack of logic.  After that, who cares.

Yes, absolutely.  i never said it was logical, in fact i admitted the opposite.  That's my story and i'm stickin' to it [:)]....luci


 I am selectively logical........so don't mind me. Thanks for the mind-scratching. I enjoyed it.

Regards, agirl




slaveluci -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 3:41:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Oh I think all of us have irrational/illogical parts to us.  The important thing is admitting their lack of logic.  After that, who cares.

Yes, absolutely.  i never said it was logical, in fact i admitted the opposite.  That's my story and i'm stickin' to it [:)]....luci


 I am selectively logical........so don't mind me. Thanks for the mind-scratching. I enjoyed it.

Regards, agirl


same here....i enjoyed it as well........slave luci




forsakengrace -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 3:54:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BondageTopJere

By and large, I'm actually suprise to see a lack of christians in BDSM circles, at least male doms/fem subs.  A D/s relationship is suprisingly similiar to the kind of relationship that the church espouses as the correct way to live. Been awhile awhile since I went to a wedding, but isn't there something in the grooms vows "to cherish and protect" and the brides " Honor and obey"? Is it not expected of christian men to be the head of their household, to ensure that their family is taken care of in all ways? Is it not expected of christian women to see to to the maintenance of the house, relieve the stress that life can cause to their husband, to bow down to his will in all matters?

Sounds to me a like one kind of very D/s relationship.  Religion is suprisingly good way to analogize D/s to people, especially catholic ones, as the overarching mental and emotional feelings are very similiar in intent and often in form.

By and large, there have been times when I wish the impression of the BDSM realm wasn't one of floggers, chains, and black leather.  Most of us here enjoy those things, but their... physical props, tools;  they hold no meaning in of themselves.  Its the way in which they're employed is what gives them meaning, and rather unfortunately is the thing people outside the D/s realm concentrate on.


Thats as far as I got in reading this thread before I had to respond ...

In short, no we're not expected to bow down to his will in all matters. Thats like saying that because a man *is* a man, he's like some sort of demi-god over his household. It also kind of opens the door to the wife being able to do something totally wrong and she can point her finger at her husband and say, But he told me to do it and I must bow to him in all matters!

Part of the basic Christian belief is free will ... Having the right to choose for ourselves whether or not we will follow God's plan for our lives. God doesn't take that away from us. (Important thing to remember here is that we don't get to choose the consequences for our actions, just the actions themselves.) So, no ... We're not just autonomous slaves to our husbands from the day we get married.

Yes, our roles are different ... There are certain things that men are naturally better at than women and things that women are naturally better at than men. In that way, we are to work together and compliment each other but in the book of Genesis when God created Eve, she was referred to as Adam's helpmate and suitable companion.

To me, suitable companion says A LOT.  A married couple needs to find a balance that works for them; some wives are more submissive than others and some husbands are more dominant than others. Yeah, D/s can be a huge part of a Christian marriage and I think as long as the Master in that marriage puts God's will first, his submissive won't really ever have to question whether or not she can serve both him and God.

Its like anything else though ... She has to use her brain. If her Master told her to break the law, does she do it simply because her Master tells her to? If she's arrested, is a Judge going to care when her defense is that her Master told her to break the law and she was simply being an obedient slave? (Common sense people ... Please.)




PsyVamp -> RE: Can you serve God and your Master? (4/24/2007 7:01:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
quote:

ORIGINAL: Satyr6406
........ 
For a lifestyle that knows (to an extent) what persecution is about, I'm a bit disappointed by some of the responses. I am hurt by the hurtful attacks designed for nothing else but to ridicule and make the commentors feel better then those "horrible" Christians.
 

.......
Only atheists, pagans and devil worshippers are accepted here-----not us Christians! [sm=river.gif]


Hey MzMia, I was walking down 7th in Manhattan Saturday and some street Evangelists were saying that the Catholic Church worships Satan. 
Now, I am currently a non-denominational Spiritualist Christian, but since I was raised Catholic, can I be accepted on this thread?

Psy  [sm=evil.gif]




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