RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA

RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 7:37:16 PM)
I used to work in a state hospital, and many here have had relatives there, Minnesota is the Mayo Clinic of State Hospitals as well, the criminality lays on the doorstep of the government in this way, they mainstream people like this---- it is an abrigement of the right of equality--- we believe these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal--- and if you think what he did was a criminal act, uuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I cant fathom that

hisannabelle -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 7:38:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice I would be really grateful if people on both sides of the gun-control debate would refrain from using a still-raw tragedy as an opportunity to score political points. as would i. i am really disgusted by the way this has been handled - both by the media and the way people have talked about it in the forums.

DragonXPhoenix -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 7:39:07 PM)
ah....so, it's a public institution. This sadly leads to know satisfaction, because there are plenty of public institutions that do not allow fireams. The courts are the first to come to mind. As far as kittensmailbox's comment....u may not like it, but as long as men have guns, honest citizens must be able to meet the force that they may exert. Yes, it's unfortunate, but it's the way of things. You don't have to like it, but that's the way it is.

MellowSir -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 7:41:33 PM)
And slaves' descendents should sue for reparations, and McD's be sued for hot coffee, and politicos for being dishonest, sue sue sue

SilverWulf -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 7:42:23 PM)
No, not everyone. The criminals among us already have unlimited access to any kind of weapon they wish to have, simply because they ignore the laws. The law abiding among us are increasingly disarmed and defenseless against the criminals, simply because they choose to follow the law. Allow the people who are trained and qualified to have the choice of carrying a weapon to defend themselves and others. The police and military can't do it effectively, so allow people to be personally responsible for thier own safety and security.

kittensmailbox -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 7:43:11 PM)
How should it be talked about???? i am pissed those ppl died... however, i still do not think by putting guns in everyone's hands will solve the problem???? It is not a bed of roses... it is life, and sometimes life just sucks....

mnottertail -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 7:43:34 PM)
lets separate nuts from criminals tho, K?

kittensmailbox -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 7:45:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilverWulf No, not everyone. The criminals among us already have unlimited access to any kind of weapon they wish to have, simply because they ignore the laws. The law abiding among us are increasingly disarmed and defenseless against the criminals, simply because they choose to follow the law. Allow the people who are trained and qualified to have the choice of carrying a weapon to defend themselves and others. The police and military can't do it effectively, so allow people to be personally responsible for thier own safety and security. Then who has the right to say who the chossen few are that are allowed to carry guns????? You? the goverment? draw straws????

SilverWulf -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 7:49:13 PM)
Many states already have concealed carry permits and the application processes in place that are working just fine. No reason to re-invent the wheel.

DragonXPhoenix -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 7:54:32 PM)
Yes....I am saying that all citizens should be allowed to posses and carry firearms. I agree with you in the fact that, this does not make sense. In order for things to make sense we wouldn't victimize each other, and life would be utopia. It's a wonderful idea, but until the concept of everyone caring about each other becomes a reality this is a facade. So....as much as it sucks....dishonest people will take advantage of the honest and the 2nd amendment makes us all equal not to be victimized in a violent bloodbath. You may not like it. I don't make the rules, but ultimately in the jungle of modern life there are two types of people....meat eaters.....and food. It's just the way it is. Make no mistake, those of us that carry....its a pain in the ass, dealing with the weight of the fiream all the time...not to mention the bulkiness....we're not all looking to be heroes, but we are looking to care for ourselves and our families. As a matter of fact, we are probably the most humblest human beings you have ever run across, because we know that violence is not a game....its a matter of life and death. Ultimately that's what it comes down to....are you prepared to die, or kill, for what you believe in.

mnottertail -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 7:54:59 PM)
ya, dont agree with that, I used to show up with my drivers license and the run it and gave me a permit to carry----good deal now I have to take a course for 75 dollars a year to show me how to handle my gun--- takes a day and only given on workdays within work hours.....the local chief of police doesnt get the money, it goes to the state, and based on what occurs in the weaning process, I see absolutlely no uplifting outcomes

DragonXPhoenix -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 7:57:58 PM)
ok....i'm on a delay here....ALL full-fledged citizens should be guarenteed to carry fireams. As far as a qualification process, if you are a honest citizen, that should be enough. Any further training should be on you.

kittensmailbox -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 7:58:37 PM)
i am not saying take away our right to carry guns, i am saying if everyone does, it is not going to solve anything... Never mind i believe my way and you believe yours, no one is wrong....

mnottertail -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 8:00:18 PM)
but it ain't gonna hurt anything now, is it? Jack Nicholson

DragonXPhoenix -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 8:00:23 PM)
ok fine....since u mentioned it....the state shouldnt really moderate in who is qualified. You are a citizen. You want to carry a gun. That's the end. If you want further training or expertise...that's on you. Sound better?

SilverWulf -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 8:00:40 PM)
I believe it was Heinlein who said "An armed society is a polite society"

PainKing -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 8:00:58 PM)
From what I've seen of this kid that did the shooting, he felt alienated and betrayed by his fellow classmen. This prompted him to take his revenge on the students. An armed society is a polite society. People in today’s society believe, wrongly it seems, that they can treat anyone anyway they want and get away with it. Maybe...and I'm just saying maybe...if in the back of all those students minds they knew that everyone else had a gun, maybe they would have dealt a little bit better with their fellow man. I'm not excusing this kid, he was a bastard of the highest caliber, but these things are becoming more and more common for a reason. Prehaps the lack of common civility plays a small part in this disturbing trend. Also, If some of the students would have been armed when he came to do his dirty work he prolly wouldn’t have gotten 33 kills and he might have though twice before entering a campus with armed personnel on it. A big sign saying "no guns allowed" just says to a would be killer "Free fire zone" Where would you rather commit mass murder? A place where people can shoot back? Or a place where everybody is a potential victim I know I know...Violence solves nothing...and you are correct. it offers no long term solutions to problems...but it is the most effective short term solution around. When someone is coming to kill you short term is what you need most of all. I'd love to live in a world that needed no guns. but that world doesn't exist. People who try to make a world that way have a nasty tendency to become victims. At least when people go armed they have a choice as to how much they want to be victimized. PK

DragonXPhoenix -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 8:02:29 PM)
ugh....ok First of all, I don't think anyone should resort to violence as a means to getting what they want, but I think that option should be available to them to defend themsleves and their property. Yes....I think its fucked up, but thats life.

minnetar -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 8:04:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilverWulf No, not everyone. The criminals among us already have unlimited access to any kind of weapon they wish to have, simply because they ignore the laws. The law abiding among us are increasingly disarmed and defenseless against the criminals, simply because they choose to follow the law. Allow the people who are trained and qualified to have the choice of carrying a weapon to defend themselves and others. The police and military can't do it effectively, so allow people to be personally responsible for thier own safety and security. Who determines who is trained and qualified? The gunman bought those weapons legally. minnetar

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: VT victims families should sue state of VA (4/21/2007 8:04:43 PM)
IF all guns were dropped in the ocean tomorrow then what knives controled and then clubs controled?There are always those out the that will take advantage of people with what ever is at hand no matter how they are armed..bounty

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