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RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/23/2007 5:46:31 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		MzMia...... the thread has been wonderful to date.  I hope that more will chime in as it goes along.
 
Undergroundsea..... well said and very good addition.  Yes, the period I was referring to was from the concept of being in the beginning.  I absolutely agree that things change as those involved become more familiar.  It's one of the ways W/we grow.
 
Unrepentant..... always good to see you posting.  I agree that it is the non-sexual play that comes into focus and has a lot of baring on a level of submissiveness.  Let Me expand......
 
At one time, I had a play partner (and that is the definition of what he was) who called one night as I was doing laundry.  Since W/we were in a getting to know period, I told him that, should he ever reach what would be a good fit for Me, one of his duties would be folding socks.  There was some hesitation in this, which dragged to him agreeing that he would fold My socks, which I seized and told him at that point he would fold his socks.  (Something he was not in the habit of doing, since he hated that particular chore as well.)
 
The next time I went to meet him, one of the first things I went to do was go inspect his room.  Yes, the drawer was opened for Me, and there were all of the socks.... folded.  The task had taken him about an hour after trying to match all of them up and fold them.  He had hated it.
 
I rewarded him with praise and signs of appreciation and affection.  It was a good lesson for him.
 
I miss that kid at times.

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/23/2007 5:57:29 PM   
mp072004


Posts: 381
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		Some people like to receive only what they want. This doesn't strike me as odd or wrong. It also doesn't strike me as submissive. I wish we had a more precise word for this, however. A person who receives *sensation* that he or she wants, independent of power exchange, is called a bottom, but what do we call a person who is led about on a leash or who responds to requests to fetch and present food and drink because he or she independently wants to do those things?

In my correspondence and in my profile on here, I prefer to use "a submissive," "a personal submissive," "a relational submissive," to describe a person who agrees to obey me when not playing. I do attempt to improve the lives of people in that category--and, to use those people to enrich my life when not playing. I call other people "servants," and "play partners" or "playmates." I distinguish pure SM play from play that involves an agreement that I get to run things and some sensation, but I don't use a different word to describe each one. I do use a different word to describe service sans play.

Presumably, though, people who obey, either in scenes or outside them, do it because they find it *fulfilling*. It may not necessarily be "fun," that is, immediately pleasurable, but it must somehow make their lives better, otherwise, they wouldn't do it for long.

Monica

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/23/2007 6:45:32 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		LadyImpact, it is nice to hear different points of view, I agree.
 

Monica, I agree that there are really so many different "forms" of Dominance and submission.
I guess the key is finding someone who seeks what you seek and is compatible, seems like a
daunting task these days.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to mp072004)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/23/2007 7:06:59 PM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Hello ladies, I have a question for you.  I have always thought that over all
Most Mistresses/Dominants/Domina’s are not as “hard” on submissives as many of the
male Dominants.
Be that as it may, I was curious so I must ask this question.
Do your submissive’s only submit to what they like or want?
What about issues like cleaning, major decisions, weight control, exercise?
And the parts of life that are not a lot of “fun"?
Do your submissives only submit to what they like or want?
Do you control areas of your submissives life OUTSIDE of the BDSM realm?
Thanks in advance


Hello MzMia, Happy Spring to You...

:)

The desire to make his woman happy extends to men in both vanilla and "lifestyle" relationships (and vice versa, patently).  However, for submissive men I have come to know, they tend to feel especially fulfilled  and satisfied  on a much deeper level when pleasing their Mistresses than the vanilla guys do their g/fs.  They yearn for it - even if it entails doing things they don't consider particulary fun or exciting.    Doing things that don't come easy has always been a solid testament of ones submissive devotion from my perspective.   :)

_____________________________

m i s t r e s s d o l l y . c o m

m y s p a c e


(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/23/2007 7:09:15 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear MzMia, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
None in my collar currently, as it takes a lot to be in a collar of mine in the first place.
 
I prefer slaves, to which have come to the realization of what it takes to submit to a Owner/Master/Mistress/Dominant.  One thing that is understood, like life itself--there will be times where they have to do things they may not like, may not wish and or hate to do.  But, its life.  Life is not all fun, silly games and playing with toys and just the fun things.  There are things that will be out of their hands.
 
If they wish to have only fun--I recommend that they continue to play their porn movies, read their porn and sex with kink magazines and or continue to seek their fantasy 'Do me' dominant.
 
Having a healthy relationship, is taking the bad with the good; and doing it together.
 
Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/23/2007 7:12:54 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Dolly, Dolly and Dolly ALL men would be willing to submit to you!
So of course that would be your experience
 
 
Lady Hugs I concur with what you said 100%, There is a lot more to
life than fun things and games.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/23/2007 7:20:08 PM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Dolly, Dolly and Dolly ALL men would be willing to submit to you!
So of course that would be your experience
 
 
Lady Hugs I concur with what you said 100%, There is a lot more to
life than fun things and games.


Well MzMia, if I were a submissive man, I would *B*E*G* you to let me submit to You and put a big ol' smile on your face, girly.  ;P

_____________________________

m i s t r e s s d o l l y . c o m

m y s p a c e


(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/23/2007 8:58:31 PM   
joyinslavery


Posts: 955
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: joyinslavery

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I have a hockey fetish. 

Akasha




Hummm..Really?!?

Right on!

Btw...Go Stars!!!


Very true. I can probably name one "erotic moment" based on every team.  For Dallas, it's Marty Turco's All Star Performance. They (accidently?) left him "mic'd up" when he played a period of the game, and he talked to commentators WHILE playing.  I found it really exciting how he was getting breathless, trying to talk in between it all, especially when a puck hit him in the chest and he'd go "Oof." 

Akasha




All I can say is...

le sigh.

_____________________________

"...we must learn, each one of us, that the world was not made for us, and that, however beautiful may be the things we crave, Fate may nevertheless forbid them."
-Bertrand Russell

Mainstream...The New Alternative

*Beware of dog*

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/23/2007 10:20:18 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Trying to solve conflict by demanding the "Dominant" is winner of all conflicts and the "submissive" is the loser of all conflicts is a lovely fantasy but not workable in real life.



Domination is control without conflict, but domination is not the perpetual state of a D/S relationship. Dominants should therefore not feel undominant and subs should not feel unsubmissive when conflict arises. Rather, they should put D/S aside, resolve the conflict and then get back to D/S.

And so it is written in THE LEATHER BOOK OF ANSWERS: Conflicts are endemic to relationships but contrary to D/S --- p. 54 --- but the two can live side by side cooperatively --- the D/S infusing the relationship & the relationship infusing the D/S with positive, trust-building energy --- p.55.

Its basically a libido driven, primal, cognitive restructured, fetishistic symbiosis.

One quickly summons to mind the image of Jukarta, Mistress of Babylon, whip in one hand and book of common sense in the other with Herboto, her humble servant, kneeling by her feet.



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 4/23/2007 10:39:41 PM >

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/23/2007 10:57:28 PM   
MistressMelissa


Posts: 226
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
Do your submissive’s only submit to what they like or want?


Short answer: nope

Long answer: Let me see.....thumbs through dictionary... Submissive, one who submits

Submit:
1 a : to yield oneself to the authority or will of another : SURRENDER b : to permit oneself to be subjected to something
2 : to defer to or consent to abide by the opinion or authority of another

Pretty much back to nope; they don't only submit to what they like.


_____________________________

Melissa
Mistress of Ds Haven
www.dshaven.com

The person who says it can not be done, should not interrupt the person doing it. - Ancient Wisdom

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/24/2007 1:19:00 AM   
Nikko1962


Posts: 31
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline 		The desire to make his woman happy extends to men in both vanilla and "lifestyle" relationships (and vice versa, patently).  However, for submissive men I have come to know, they tend to feel especially fulfilled  and satisfied  on a much deeper level when pleasing their Mistresses than the vanilla guys do their g/fs.  They yearn for it - even if it entails doing things they don't consider particulary fun or exciting.    Doing things that don't come easy has always been a solid testament of ones submissive devotion from my perspective.   :)
[/quote]

Pleasing vs Helping

Have to agree with MD.  I started with a babysitter who provided Attention, Acceptance and Authority.  While I probably didn't understand any of my desires at that time, I really wanted to "please" her.  Even being sent to bed by her would make my face flush.  I wanted to please her by accepting/submitting to her authority.  I hated going to bed for her, but on the other hand I loved it.  I will admit to resorting to provoking her with childish misdeeds to get a little extra attention.  I think I'm still technically "grounded".

Something as mundane as being sent to the grocery store by a vanilla woman to pick up a bottle of wine is fine, things need to be done and I'm happy to "help" her.  Depending on what I was doing, I might suggest that I pick up the bottle of wine later.

Being sent to the store by someone who knows (and utilizes) my strengths/weaknesses is a completely different experience.  "Darling, while I realize that you're in the middle of brusing my hair, it would be nice if you would go to the store and pick up a bottle of wine for us".  While still a mundane act to perform, there is no doubt that the act "will" happen.  Even the most un-erotic.  This energy turns a chore into a mission, similar to a low grade fever. A nice burn.

It's worse when requested to pick up something "nice".  For example, no specifics, but a signal for, "when you get back, regardless of what you buy, I'm going to torment you with your choice".  Ugghhmm.  Trying to concentrate on a Cab, Merlo or Syrah when my breath is shallow and I know whatever choice I make is not going to suffice, is like a drug induced high.  Addictive.

_____________________________

Everything you want is on the other side of fear.

If you are going to hide in the haystack from me, at least make a little noise.


http://www.myspace.com/124184605

(in reply to MistressDolly)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/24/2007 4:44:02 AM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		General consensus is that submissives submit to doing things that they don't like.

However, submissives do it because they know it is what their Dominant wants from them.  Their desire to please the Dominant outweighs their dislike of the task at hand.  Therefore isn't the submissive still really only doing what they like (pleasing the Dominant) even if they dislike the act (eg cleaning the house)

Problems arise IME when the submissive has submitted to something they dislike and the Dominant does not care.  In other words, he or she did not notice the submission or put no value on that "sacrifice".

So why would a submissive ever choose to disobey if they get their jollies by obeying Mistress/Master?? 

Overnight I remembered one more major reason: testing. 

They fail to submit to test what you - as Dominant - will do about it.  Will you turn into a psycho-bitch?  Will you ignore the infraction?  Will you coldly remind the submissive they can always ask to be released if they no longer enjoy submission.  Will you punish them in a  fun way :).  Will you punish them in a not fun way :(









_____________________________

<----- Corset, mask and collar designed and manufactured by metalsmith Karl H, chromed and lined in black suede. Masks and collars available from http://www.lucreziadesade.com.au/default.html. Corsets custom made only

(in reply to Nikko1962)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/24/2007 7:09:32 AM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
Most submissives will play on a dime, but if you ask for more than play? Many
think they don't know you will enough.


MzMia, if you are comfortable to comment, I am curious with what types of non-play areas have you encountered resistance?

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/24/2007 2:09:49 PM   
Unrepentant1


Posts: 283
Joined: 8/25/2006
Status: offline 		Nods my head in agreement to you both!

(in reply to MistressDolly)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/24/2007 7:23:51 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
Most submissives will play on a dime, but if you ask for more than play? Many
think they don't know you will enough.


MzMia, if you are comfortable to comment, I am curious with what types of non-play areas have you encountered resistance?
Cheers,

Sea


Well Sea, I have encountered resistance in just about any other area that I want to control other than BDSM.
I am not sure how specific I need be.   It appears that I don't usually know them long enough or well enough
to control behavior, time, etc. and how I specifically want certain things to go.  But, it is never to soon to have control or
BDSM play.
So it has been my experience again that male submissives will play on a dime, but please don't ask for much
more than play or BDSM experiences.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/24/2007 7:25:31 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		MistressMelissa, I think we share the same dictionary!

MsC, oh testing is key, and that's when you see what is REALLY going on.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/24/2007 7:56:13 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		(using FastReply)
Do your submissives only submit to what they like or want?
Do you control areas of your submissives life OUTSIDE of the BDSM realm?
I will not take a submissive who only submits to what he/she likes or wants. If they will not accept doing assignments outside of their interests, I won't take them as mine.
I have, with the submissives I have had in the past, controlled areas of life outside of the BDSM realm. This included daily journalling assignments (journals were to be about anything, not just BDSM), excercise, changed diet at times, wardrobe to work, smoking, hygiene (shaving mostly), and some other items.

I encounter a lot of resistance with my current slave. All of his prior experience was with professionals. When he makes a suggestion and I make a counter suggestion, sometimes he recognizes it as dominance and accepts. Sometimes he simply sees it as disagreement and continues to push for his way. I accept many of his suggestions as I don't have a strong preference one way or another about things. But when I do, I most of the time will make him sit and listen to my explanation. I will ask pointed questions to get him to see how he is coming across and the messages he is sending to me.

Over the years, he has gotten much better about accepting my control and allowing me to take direction when I have strong ideas about something. But he is rather used to driving and directing, and the fact that he gets his requests most of the time makes it much more startling to him when I say no, we are doing it MY way in this.

~E

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/24/2007 10:59:06 PM   
pixelslave


Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

Problems arise IME when the submissive has submitted to something they dislike and the Dominant does not care.  In other words, he or she did not notice the submission or put no value on that "sacrifice".

So why would a submissive ever choose to disobey if they get their jollies by obeying Mistress/Master?? 

Overnight I remembered one more major reason: testing. 



There's also the possibility that the sub's Mistress never shows she cares and the sub eventually gives up!   It may start with him disobeying, but it could easily end with the sub walking away on his own when his efforts on behalf of his domme are rarely acknowledged or appreciation shown.
 
 - pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/24/2007 11:04:36 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

General consensus is that submissives submit to doing things that they don't like.

However, submissives do it because they know it is what their Dominant wants from them.  Their desire to please the Dominant outweighs their dislike of the task at hand.  Therefore isn't the submissive still really only doing what they like (pleasing the Dominant) even if they dislike the act (eg cleaning the house)

Problems arise IME when the submissive has submitted to something they dislike and the Dominant does not care.  In other words, he or she did not notice the submission or put no value on that "sacrifice".

So why would a submissive ever choose to disobey if they get their jollies by obeying Mistress/Master?? 



This reminded Me of that question.... Is there such a thing as a selfless act?  Don't those things that are considered charitable acts actually bring a good feeling to those providing the service?  Doesn't doing good for others bring something to the giver?

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Do submissives only submit to what they like and wh... - 4/24/2007 11:13:27 PM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		Yes, domination and submission is not too different from ordinary (vanilla) relationship dynamics.  Its just that we have labels for who makes the decisions and tools to resolve our power struggles

Fetishes, bondage, discipline and sado-masochism are - on the other hand - very out of the ordinary. Nowdays I find D/s without those other elements a little dull myself.

_____________________________

<----- Corset, mask and collar designed and manufactured by metalsmith Karl H, chromed and lined in black suede. Masks and collars available from http://www.lucreziadesade.com.au/default.html. Corsets custom made only

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 60
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