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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 6:08:22 AM   
KatyLied


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Status: offline 		Does anyone else have the feeling that they missed a masturbation thread?
If this is the case, would someone please link me.....


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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 7:48:00 AM   
aSlavesLife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

Jesus was actually speaking of praying "in public" and making a big show of it...what i am talking about is truely just genuine concern for someone else and when i know they are hurting i do what i personally think is best...which is to offer that sitsuation up to God. i dont drop to my knees and pray right there at the jiffy mart, i have more respect for prayer then that....


When I know someone is hurting, I offer them a Tylenol. It seems to work much better than thinking happy thoughts at the sky for them.

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 8:21:52 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

The question remains how best to do that without 'offending' anyone. This is where being PC becomes annoying to me. Prayer is *such* a broad term ... Or it can be, unless of course you're looking for something to be offended at


My child is mandated by the government to go to school. I do not want him praying with people who have belief systems I personally find repugnant. I do not want him exchanging spiritual energy with people that believe in "hell" for example, or that the only way to god is "their way". Praying is a very deep action. I do not take it lightly. It has as much meaning to me as sex does, and what you are suggesting to me is that I allow my child to pray with random people... that is like expecting your children to have sex with random people. That is MY belief, and it is not about being "offended".



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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 9:25:27 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Satyr6406

Okay. I read up to page 2 (out of 4) before I posted this.
 
A couple of people have mentioned "seperation of church and state". I wonder how people confuse a letter, written by Thomas Jefferson to one of his friends with the supreme law of the land?
 
People, the only "protection" having anything to do with religion is protecting religion from government interference and preventing government from forcing a religion on us.
 
No protection was ever enacted (officially) to keep religion out of our government. As a matter of fact, like it or not, the founding fathers set us up to be a "Judeo/Christian society".
 
So, once again, "seperation of church and state" is NOT one of the rights guaranteed you by the first ten amendments but, nice try!
 
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
Michael


Since we are going to demand kids go to these institutions of learning, and fine and perhaps jail parents that refuse to make them go, it seems that to take religion out of it is the only responsible thing to do. No one is saying a kid can't pray at school as long as they do it in their head. If people have a problem with that it is because they cannot evangelize to others around them

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 9:37:05 AM   
darcyinshadows


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Status: offline 		Just a thought, if I hear God speaking to me, does that make me religious or crazy?

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 9:41:16 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: darcyinshadows

Just a thought, if I hear God speaking to me, does that make me religious or crazy?


It depends on what he said

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 9:45:47 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Yep, prayer in public school is offensive.  Not everyone prays, not everyone is religious.

in your opinion prayer is offensive. btw .....when i hear someone has troubles or a sick family member and say "i'll pray for you/them" i have never heard anyone say OMG i'm soooo offended.



Actually, I've been offended by the phrase "I'll pray for you." I told someone I was bisexual and that was their response. Go my fellow Christians... *eyeroll*

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 9:52:10 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WingedMercury

They are insulting me because they think I am going to be thankful for their prayers (putting me in the same boat as someone who believes in the supernatural - I find that insulting), and they are belittling themselves because they are admitting to believing in a higher being, in other words, suspending all the logic and the laws of the known universe.

People should keep their religion to themselves, instead of cascading it over others.

I hope that makes you understand another's point of view.  It is important.


To have faith in a higher being is hardly something to be ashamed of. I strongly suspect you've only been exposed to the "there is something wrong with you for being gay/sexually active/whatever, I'll pray for you types." Perhaps you should open your mind a little. But then again, atheist  fundies are no better then Christian fundies so you probably won't.

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 9:52:44 AM   
michaelOfGeorgia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: darcyinshadows

Just a thought, if I hear God speaking to me, does that make me religious or crazy?


if i ever (finally) heard "God's" voice...then i would be more of a believer.


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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 9:58:55 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

quote:

ORIGINAL: darcyinshadows

Just a thought, if I hear God speaking to me, does that make me religious or crazy?


if i ever (finally) heard "God's" voice...then i would be more of a believer.



The point of faith is to believe when you don't know. Ever see the movie "Constinatine"? At one point the main character looks at Gabriel (SP?) and says "I believe in Heaven and Hell!" and the reply is "No, you know there is Heaven and Hell. There is a difference and you have to believe."

I'm sure I don't have the quotes perfect but the message is there.

As for the OP: I am a Christian. But I do not believe in school-led prayer in public schools. I would never have been comfortable with it because I knew that others would be made uncomfortable by it. I support a moment of silence which you can use to honor the fallen, pray, or catch up on homework or a short nap. I believe students should be allowed to pray on their own, provided they do not make a show of it and that they do not interupt the class. Heaven only knows how many times I've prayed before a final exam...

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 10:01:53 AM   
michaelOfGeorgia


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Status: offline 		hey, i was born in Missouri...i believe in what i can see and hear...not what people tell me i should see and here...as my home state's motto goes: SHOW ME!!!!

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 10:08:36 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

hey, i was born in Missouri...i believe in what i can see and hear...not what people tell me i should see and here...as my home state's motto goes: SHOW ME!!!!


Nobody says what you should see and hear. Just that if you aren't willing to extend the effort required by faith and will just there going  "I'm only to going to believe if you prove it! NNYYAHHH!!!", you probably aren't going to get any of the comfort that faith provides. And that is nobody's fault but your own. Which isn't always a bad thing. Some people clearly don't desire it. But if you do, and you sit around waiting for God to perform a personal miracle for you instead of seeing what He already has done, well you probably aren't going to get very far.

If it were like mathematics, it wouldn't be called believing.

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 10:12:12 AM   
kruelkare


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quote:

ORIGINAL: darcyinshadows

Just a thought, if I hear God speaking to me, does that make me religious or crazy?


Depends where and when...  if you're in church, it's expected - though it's probably not a good idea to stand up and yell out that He just told you the place needs redecorating
... if you're in the street, then it would make you crazy, so it's best to keep it to yourself.
... if you're Joan of Arc, it's DEFINITELY best to keep the conversation private.

On the whole, I think that, if you're on chatting terms with your personal deity, people will be jealous because they're not -  and so they'll have you locked up and medicated, or stone you.
Only qualified, card-carrying spiritual leaders are allowed to know the Boss's home number, and it's upsetting to them, to think about a mere peasant heaing from Him/Her. It undermines their power.

(there is a very neat t-shirt around...  "You're just jealous because the voices don't talk to you")


Of course, there are those who get a "wrong number"...  in which case, who IS talking to them? Demons, Affrits or monsters of their own mind?  And how do you know?  Last I heard, voices in the head don't have caller ID.

I think I'll stay indoors the rest of the day, it looks like a thunderstorm coming

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 10:12:28 AM   
michaelOfGeorgia


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Status: offline 		i have faith in things i can see, touch, hear...whatever.

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 10:16:06 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

i have faith in things i can see, touch, hear...whatever.


Faith isn't easy. Was never meant to be.

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 10:25:04 AM   
domiguy


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Status: offline 		Yes there should be prayer in school ant then we should also be teaching "intelligent design"...Then those same kids should go into their anthropology class and explain how all the fossils and bones are a ploy and that carbon testing is not science and that nothing on this planet is over five thousand years old....We really need more ignorance in this country...I can feel it slipping away.

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 10:27:20 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Yes there should be prayer in school ant then we should also be teaching "intelligent design"...Then those same kids should go into their anthropology class and explain how all the fossils and bones are a ploy and that carbon testing is not science and that nothing on this planet is over five thousand years old....We really need more ignorance in this country...I can feel it slipping away.


I have sat through kids that have done this in anthropology classes and see my professors smile, nod, and go back to teaching their curriculum.



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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 10:58:14 AM   
OrionTheWolf


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Status: offline 		Greetings Michael,

Much of what I have study on the issue, shows that most of the founding fathers were deist. You have to go back much further within moral codes, to say what the society is based on. The predominant religion was various forms of christianity, so the society would of course be influenced by that. It does not remove that was seen to keep religion and government seperate, so that neither would control the other.

Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: Satyr6406

Okay. I read up to page 2 (out of 4) before I posted this.
 
A couple of people have mentioned "seperation of church and state". I wonder how people confuse a letter, written by Thomas Jefferson to one of his friends with the supreme law of the land?
 
People, the only "protection" having anything to do with religion is protecting religion from government interference and preventing government from forcing a religion on us.
 
No protection was ever enacted (officially) to keep religion out of our government. As a matter of fact, like it or not, the founding fathers set us up to be a "Judeo/Christian society".
 
So, once again, "seperation of church and state" is NOT one of the rights guaranteed you by the first ten amendments but, nice try!
 
 
 
 
Peace and comfort,
 
 
 
 
Michael


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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 11:04:21 AM   
michaelOfGeorgia


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Status: offline 		i don't study history...never have. i purposely skipped history in school because i have no need for it.

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RE: prayer in schools - 4/25/2007 11:58:49 AM   
GoddessDustyGold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

i have faith in things i can see, touch, hear...whatever.


That would not be faith, Michael.  That would be knowledge and direct physical experience. 

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