prayer in schools

prayer in schools (Full Version)

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forsakengrace -> prayer in schools (4/24/2007 3:41:50 PM)
I didn' want to hijack a thread but I saw this post and it got me to thinking ... quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: justheather Um. Im sorry, but I fail to see how Jesus' current location has anything to do with this person's actions. I went to a catholic school in the 70s. We had bomb threats at least once a year. Usually it was in the Spring when the weather was nice, so we didnt really mind so much. We had no idea, as kids, all the resources spent sniffing out a fake bomb. The buzz on the street was that it was the high schoolers who had attended our school who did it...they always seemed to have the day off and and just happen to strole by at the same time we were lining up outside. Anyway, my point is that Jesus was most definitely in the building. Why do people assume that Jesus Christ is the center of all morality in the world? Plenty of people who aren't Christians play well with others, share their crayons and don't make bomb threats. And plenty of people who profess to "know the Lord" light crosses on fire, bomb buildings and much much worse. Um. The point is that there is no basis for morality anymore, um because um religion is gone. Um. Without it people have no um need to give a flying rat's ass what they um do . Um. Some do give that um flying rats ass, but um they feel no real um need to. Um. WHY give that um flying rats ass? Um. You can't um answer that, because um there isn't a reason. Um. THAT'S the um point. Um. [Mod Note: font reduced] I guess the thing that always bothered me about the seperation of church and state is it was handled ... I don't think that you have to be a Christian to have good morals. However, I do think that for many people, perhaps even the majority of people, being spiritual in some way helps us to remember our own personal good morals. I've often wondered if there would be less violence in places like schools if prayer were encouraged; if at the beginning of each day everyone were to take a few moments as a group to pray quietly. Not necessarily to any one diety or to any diety at all ... Just something I've wondered and a subject I'd like to toss out there for debate.

szobras -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 4:16:32 PM)
A quote that I read once. "As long as there are tests, there will always be prayer in school."

juliaoceania -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 5:07:29 PM)
quote: I don't think that you have to be a Christian to have good morals. However, I do think that for many people, perhaps even the majority of people, being spiritual in some way helps us to remember our own personal good morals. I've often wondered if there would be less violence in places like schools if prayer were encouraged; if at the beginning of each day everyone were to take a few moments as a group to pray quietly. Not necessarily to any one diety or to any diety at all ... As a nonreligious, but spiritual person with a son that went through public school, I have to say I agree with separation of church and state. It is legal for kids to form prayer groups for after school, for teachers to be a part of these groups, for students to encourage others to join.... but it is after school hours. I have no problem with moments of silence that can be used for prayer, schools have these too (in case you did not know). A moment of silence does not have the connotation as does a moment for prayer. It honors all beliefs. The issue that many religious people have with the church and state ban is that they cannot evangelize their beliefs. Many Christians believe that the more people they bring to "god", the more blessings they have in Heaven. That seems a direct contradiction of why we have schools. I did not want my son exchanging sacred energy with Christians to be honest. I did not want him praying with them, I did not want them trying to evangelize to him. I did not want him brainwashed spiritually by outside forces. His spiritual development was MY responsibility. Now when I have said this to my fundie brother he used to get upset, and I just turned it back on him and asked him how he would feel if his daughter was being prostelized to by Muslims.. he evaded that question. How easy it is to be for school prayer when your religion is practiced by the majority that attend whatever school your children do, but it is not so easy when one is the minority... the first amendment is about minority rights largely. Now we can talk about how religion ameliorates violence in schools. I have never seen any evidence that religion made people better, in fact people that are behaving for any other reason besides an inner ethical compass usually fail to keep to the straight and narrow from my view of things. Most people behave themselves because they want to... not because some mean assed god is going to strike them dead... at least that is my experience in this world.

outlier -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 5:49:53 PM)
forsakengrace, Prayer in school is not illegal. Official prayer in school is and has to be, if all religions are to be treated equally. Also if agnostics and atheists are to be treated equally. The minute you have a government institution (school) with government employees (teachers) telling citizens (students) when where and how to pray, you have the beginning of an "official" government religion. The best example of this I ever saw was a cartoon in which a teacher says: "Now class our guest will lead us in prayer". The guest then says "Almighty Budda...." The teacher interrupts with, "Now wait a minute!". The thing that really annoys me about this topic is that a lot of the televangilists and preachers who go on about this know it is for their own protection, but they do it to line their pockets anyway. Outlier

popeye1250 -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 5:57:17 PM)
I have no problem with prayer in schools and no problem with guns in schools.

subfever -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 6:00:33 PM)
People can pray at home, and they can go to their place of worship to pray. Moments of silence are fine in the schools, but keep prayer out.

KatyLied -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 6:03:07 PM)
I have a huge problem with prayer in public school. A moment of silence isn't offensive, prayer is offensive.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 6:04:05 PM)
Prayer in schools? How about parents being responsible for raising their children, and being involved with their education? How many parents actually soend time doing something with their kids? How many actually pick up their kids textbooks and read them, to see what their kids are studying? How many actually add more academic things for their kids to do?

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 6:04:29 PM)
quote: prayer is offensive. WHAT???

KatyLied -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 6:05:53 PM)
Yep, prayer in public school is offensive. Not everyone prays, not everyone is religious.

aSlavesLife -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 6:11:40 PM)
If prayer is allowed in schools, can the teachers interrupt church services to give a lecture on cosmology and evolution?

servilecat -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 6:12:12 PM)
i have no problem with prayer any place at all that any individual chooses to pray. i would like to see prayer in school and home but i would also like to see education in home. We did have the Christian Fellowship of Athletes at my school and we could meet before or after school so that was nice.

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 6:12:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied Yep, prayer in public school is offensive. Not everyone prays, not everyone is religious. in your opinion prayer is offensive. btw .....when i hear someone has troubles or a sick family member and say "i'll pray for you/them" i have never heard anyone say OMG i'm soooo offended.

minnetar -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 6:12:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Prayer in schools? How about parents being responsible for raising their children, and being involved with their education? How many parents actually soend time doing something with their kids? How many actually pick up their kids textbooks and read them, to see what their kids are studying? How many actually add more academic things for their kids to do? i agree completely. i believe in keeping church and state separate. Those kind of beliefs should come from the parents. i would not want my nieces and nephews values to be determined by the state. minnetar

WingedMercury -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 6:13:05 PM)
It is offensive to many of us that, despite the Age of Reason, despite the development of science over the years, there are still people who put faith before rationality. Further, it appears that people use that faith, instead of reason, to justify their actions, whether war or acknowledgement of climate change. God bless America indeed!

KatyLied -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 6:14:20 PM)
You started by quoting me out of context. Please understand that I find if offensive in PUBLIC SCHOOL. Do it after school, don't make it part of the curriculum.

aSlavesLife -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 6:16:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied Yep, prayer in public school is offensive. Not everyone prays, not everyone is religious. in your opinion prayer is offensive. btw .....when i hear someone has troubles or a sick family member and say "i'll pray for you/them" i have never heard anyone say OMG i'm soooo offended. I have asked people to please not add me to their delusions when they have offered to pray for me.

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 6:18:23 PM)
saying that people who use faith to guide there desicions lack or dont use reason is a rediculous statement. imho

KatyLied -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 6:18:50 PM)
I take the "you are in my thoughts" approach. It seems more welcoming of diversity. Also, I have a son who is agnostic and this has made me more aware of many things.

lovewithoutfear -> RE: prayer in schools (4/24/2007 6:19:42 PM)
"Prayer in school is not illegal. Official prayer in school is and has to be, if all religions are to be treated equally. " THANK YOU for pointing out this important distinction! Regards JY

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