RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world."

RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (Full Version)

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kittinSol -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 3:44:26 PM)
Right you are, a BDSM message board is not the place to discuss sionism or indeed, the 'place of the Jewish people in the world (who put whom where???). At times it is hard to keep a sense of humour,yet many know that is what the human spirit is made of! Therefore, I shall laugh with you, and indeed, at you, for your attempts at world peace. PEACE

popeye1250 -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 3:46:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Sorry, just gulped at the 'dumped a Jewish state' sentence. Otherwise I agreed with nearly everything... seems to me you're mixing up the capital (economy) with history (reconciliation). Shalom. I have nothing against Jews either. I just don't want to have to keep shelling out $3B per year or whatever it is. I'm totally against my government being in the "Foreign Aid" business. Is there any chance that Israel, Egypt and all the other countries that have been taking this money for many years now will start paying us back? Financially, I want my govt. to operate like a lean, mean machine! Cut the State Dept in half, abolish Energy and Education, cut the military after getting our Troops back from more that 100 countries, no more "Foreign Aid" of any kind, out of the "U.N.", NATO, GATT, Nafta, World Bank, outlaw "Lobbyists." There are WAY too many people making WAY too much money off the backs of the Taxpayers.

MellowSir -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 3:51:46 PM)
I agree with popeye, let America take care of americans for a change

meatcleaver -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 3:53:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MellowSir I agree with popeye, let America take care of americans for a change If only. The US is taking care of Americans by wanting to place missiles on the Russian border. If taking care of Americans didn't interfer with the geo-politics of others I would agree with you.

PenetratingGaze -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 3:58:40 PM)
Respectfully Sir, The Jews were the majority in that land for the past couple of centuries. The Balfour declaration gave them the rights to land owned by the Brit gov. Before 1948 many Arabs (who by the way, where all considered Egyptian or Jordanians, and NOT Palestinians, even by themselves) where selling there own lands and properties, legally & w/o coerrcion, to the Jews. Please, Sir, study the history of the land a little bit more. Not just revisionist, anti-semitic, anti-western history either. However, yes, we do need cheap labor, goods, and services, labor unions, welfare, governmental interference/intrussion into the market place with min. wage laws etc. have made sure that America is not competitive with other nations. And, no I am not a huge fan of W and the neocons, although as both a soldier and a libetarian the alternative scares the jewilikers out of me. Thank you, Alexi

xBullx -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 4:01:09 PM)
Greetings, You say we lost our standing assuming America had credibility on the world stage beyond that which was purchased by our bank account. We have never been liked much anywhere, we have turned our backs on many, created more problems then we will ever admit. Russia just loves us getting a taste of our own medicine in Afganistan. We are about nothing that isn't about profit to the White class....and no, Jesse and Al, I don't mean the white man, there are more world decisions madein board rooms then there has ever been in Washington. You can't have a standing that is worth loosing if it was a simple facade to begin with............ Bull

lockedaway -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 4:01:27 PM)
Why do we want to put a missile defense system in Germany, smart guy?? We offered the Russians to share information and radar stations so do you reeaaally think we are trying to protect the world from the Russians? We want to have a missile defense system to protect against Iran and No. Korea. Russia and Iran are much closer allies than we are with Russian so Russia is not happy.

MellowSir -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 4:03:11 PM)
Then I stand corrected on the Jewish state, let fate decide though, not support of this country. We've enough problems within our own borders without having to have greedy political fingers in everyone else's pies.....

lockedaway -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 4:05:48 PM)
I disagree with you completely. America is suffering from the same problem that every enabler suffers from the enabled; resentment. Our GREATEST mistake was NAFTA. We elevated the entire world (and empowered them) and conveyed only a mixed bag of benefits for our own people. What standing do we have? Well, we have the best friends that money can buy, that's true. Aside from that, the next time there is a major global conflict, the world will be at our door. Boy, wouldn't they all be flabbergasted if we let them burn. I have never been so much an isolationist as in the past 10 years.

PenetratingGaze -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 4:15:08 PM)
Sir, I DO agree about our hand outs to others, you and Popeye are correct. foreign aid, just as any form of welfare, tends (not always) to make the recipient weak and dependant. Let everyone build his own home and nation, and interact with good faith and honesty in business dealings - that is how to build the U.S. and all nations. Unfortuniately we are all all too human. Alexi

NorthernGent -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 4:28:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Strange. I got just the opposite meaning from her posts: That's fine. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY We get to criticise it terribly because it's "all in the family". Fuckin' Don Corleone here. Tell you what, judging by this message board, your family don't appear to be happy with your stewardship. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY When you criticise it - especially from a point of view that is Anti-US in its core - of course we tend to take it more personally than you do, coming from a country with royalty, and a history of a government that only became a representative of the people relatively late in its history. Who's this we? Do you always speak for everyone? There's some truth in your representation point, but I'll take a small amount of personal satisfaction from voting against the status quo at the next election. Supporting tyrants who overthrow sovereign nations in order to line their pockets isn't for me. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Oh, finally I get an admission that maybe This is how deluded you are with your self-importance. I reply to another poster and you take it as a response to you. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Oh, finally I get an admission that maybe - perhaps - the US isn't totally and completely evil. You really believe all your good and evil rhetoric don't you. If you haven't taken the above as condescending, then you should have.

FirmhandKY -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 5:03:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY We get to criticise it terribly because it's "all in the family". Fuckin' Don Corleone here. Tell you what, judging by this message board, your family don't appear to be happy with your stewardship. And this family, when you piss us off, may just end up pissing on you. Ain't that a pisser? [:)] Now, with the humor out of the way ... As I said, we are free to harangue and bellow from the tops of tall buildings about our self, our government and our politicians. But, just as Brits may take offense when we start to tell you guys how you should run your country, we get kinda put out when so many from outside the US start telling us how immoral, ignorant, unprincipled, stupid, etc, etc, etc, et al, ad nauseum, we and/or our government is. And yeah ... some eye-tal-yen 'Mericans may put a severed horse head in your bed one night, if you piss us off long enough ... [:D] quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY When you criticise it - especially from a point of view that is Anti-US in its core - of course we tend to take it more personally than you do, coming from a country with royalty, and a history of a government that only became a representative of the people relatively late in its history. Who's this we? Do you always speak for everyone? Yeah, pretty much. [:)] The majority, anyway. Consider it the "royal" we. quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent There's some truth in your representation point, but I'll take a small amount of personal satisfaction from voting against the status quo at the next election. Supporting tyrants who overthrow sovereign nations in order to line their pockets isn't for me. Yeah, I support your Western Liberal democratic right to pick your own leaders, and I have - and will again if necessary - defended it from within the arms of the US Armed Forces, all around the world. Even if you are unwilling to defend such rights yourself. That is one of the major differences between us two, I suppose. quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Oh, finally I get an admission that maybe This is how deluded you are with your self-importance. I reply to another poster and you take it as a response to you. shrugs Well, I've asked you the question on several occasions, and you've never bothered to give anything resembling an answer. I guess I'll take it when I can find it. quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Oh, finally I get an admission that maybe - perhaps - the US isn't totally and completely evil. You really believe all your good and evil rhetoric don't you. If you haven't taken the above as condescending, then you should have. I know you intended it to be condescending, but for me to feel that it actually is condescending, I'd have to have some concern that you were in some way superior to me. All "my" "good and evil rhetoric" is nothing more than an accurate description of the language you constantly use when you start talking about the US, and especially US foreign policy. For some strange reason, you seem to fear recognizing that you use terms of moral condemnation in such incidents, and the very definition of something that is morally corrupt - such as US foreign policy, according to you - is the word "evil". I posted you a dictionary definition before on the subject, but - as usually - you shy away, get angry, and refuse to acknowledge the plain meaning of your own words. FirmKY

meatcleaver -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 5:18:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lockedaway We want to have a missile defense system to protect against Iran and No. Korea. Russia and Iran are much closer allies than we are with Russian so Russia is not happy. Like er... Iran has no missiles no missiles and are decades away of having any that could reach America. And er.... if Korea had missiles wouldn't they be smart enough to send them the shortest route to the US, like er...over the Pacific? Hmm maybe it makes no difference which way they go. Edit: The Pacific is the shortest route to hit US.

meatcleaver -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 5:24:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lockedaway Why do we want to put a missile defense system in Germany, smart guy?? We offered the Russians to share information and radar stations so do you reeaaally think we are trying to protect the world from the Russians? Er...you don't want to put missiles in Germany and probably the German government would be reluctant to agree to any more armaments on their soil because the government would probably get voted out. I don't think you are trying to save the world from Russia, only yourselves, which would be fair enough if you didn't cause problems elsewhere . The Czechs wouldn't be protected by the missile system, they would just get dollars and a hope no one attacks them.

WingedMercury -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 5:34:39 PM)
A most disappointing forum from my point of view. I think the conclusion might be that America has lost it's (sic) standing in the world, and also in its own eyes too. Namecalling and other modes of disrespect do not really prove points, in fact they detract from the view expressed, but my thanks to those few who were able to put a few "facts" to the forum. A "fact" depends on a point of view, or course, just as one man's terrorist is another man's patriot, but with Google, readers of the forum can easily access different views of the same fact.

popeye1250 -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 5:42:10 PM)
Mercury, and that's a bad thing? All this "globalism" by our govt, unwanted by the people needs to end.

kittinSol -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 6:01:58 PM)
Mellow mellow, Sir, and apologies for the lateness in my response (I was busy cooking - kosher) BUT! America has the largest debt in the world! Its debt (and I quote Pravda here, purely for the sake of getting on everybody's Murdoch fuelled nerves) is hitting: "$8,184 trillion debt as of February-March 2006" Harsh to hear yet so awfully true I fear... Like they say, they only lend to the rich. But of course, it isn't about money at all. Or is it? Bleurgh, it makes me so awfully sick, and if only it wasn't antagonistic I'd wish for ANARCHY to rule. Love rules in the meantime. blows kisses and thanks anyone who cared to listen

Dtesmoac -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 6:08:43 PM)
I've been in the US for two years now (starting to sort out arrangements for return to UK). One of the questions I do get asked by a lot of people is "why does everyone hate us" (70% people) so despite the views on the board my experience is that a lot of Americans are concerned by how they are viewed. Why is Americas standing important - $2.2 trillion in US securities is held by foreigners.If the $ continues to devalue because of the deficit (or a run on investments by non US countires / companies) or concerns with US policy, then essential items priced in $ s will continue to be more expensive, this will hit the US harder than most. A stable US economy is a pltaform for other poorer nations to build from. The value of trade from the poorest nations on earth increased by 30% in 2006. Which countries are most stable? The wealthiest countries. Which comes first stability or wealth? The US is the WORLDS largest exporter. It ranks 2nd but shortly to become 3rd in Goods after Germany and China (China started to overtake in the 2nd half of 2006). The USA has most to loose from the breakdown of international trade. Cheap Chinese goods can not be manufactured in the US, expensive replacements could be. This would then affect the service sector which would slam the US. The investments that many Americans rely upon for their futures are not invested in the US they are invested in Europe, Japan, China, Souht America and the USA. An isolationist pull out by the US and disregard for international organisations and laws by the US when for the first time the US really is not self sufficient would result in $ collapse. This would cmpletely bugger up the USA, China and Europe. Yes the US has lost influence but that surely must be expected becasue after the collapse of the USSR there was a power vacuum. Someone else at some point was bound to pick up some influence. After WWII all the worlds wealth was in the US, for people to trade they had to generate some wealth, which they now have (in some places) and can negotiate on more even terms with the US. Note the term MORE EVEN TERMS. Even in New Mexico where people have salaries of $18K (£9K) the cheap nature of goods and services make this liveable. !!!!! If they had to purchase made in USA items that $18K would have to go up markedly. Yes the current president is a "little bit controversial" ... but over 50% of Americans hate him as well. Yes the US has lost influence, not just as a nation but as a concept of a better, fairer way of running a country. Is this because of the UN, NAFTA, NATO, Ketucky Fried chicken... no. It is becasue the US said we do not need you, and do not care what impact we have on you, so that we can live in a certain manner e.g. Kyoto, Iraq, trade agreements...... etc and do not care about the impact that has on you.... resource depletion and pollution, poverty, dictators, etc... As for other influences...... what about films, TV shows, music, designs, tourism, literature, ........ at the moment these have not been greatly affected, but they could be and that would be a shame. Personnaly the film a pursuit of happiness illustrates the US and "my" vision of the world. To American colleagues it was about opportunity and working hard to succeed. To me it was a film about how some people get shitted on and occassionally some one becomes one of those doing the shitting, and statistically it was unlikely.

kittinSol -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 6:15:22 PM)
Whispering in ear

caitlyn -> RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world." (4/29/2007 6:34:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac Yes the US has lost influence, not just as a nation but as a concept of a better, fairer way of running a country. Is this because of the UN, NAFTA, NATO, Ketucky Fried chicken... no. It is becasue the US said we do not need you, and do not care what impact we have on you, so that we can live in a certain manner e.g. Kyoto, Iraq, trade agreements...... etc and do not care about the impact that has on you.... resource depletion and pollution, poverty, dictators, etc... I have no idea why anyone would think we had/have a better way of running a country. We are certainly no better than any other country, and none are better than us. America has power. Power is measured relative to other nations. Anyone that thinks America gained its power by outworking other nations, is living in a dream world. America was not devastated by the second World War ... and that is the only thing we did right ... we had oceans. America seems to have lost a standing, built in other people's minds and out of the mouths of American politicians looking for votes. We just "have" to be better ... because the alternative would be to admit that we were lucky. I have no such illusions. Most epic events in history are built on a foundation of luck. My only question to our overly critical European "friends", is to tell us who has done a wonderful job, wielding all this vast power? Who is the shining example, we should look up to? ... or maybe spend less time dreaming about us having a better way to run a country, and more time realizing just what a brutal task master all this power can be.

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