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Owned? - 5/5/2005 11:05:35 PM

SmilinFSub

Posts: 42
Joined: 5/1/2005
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Will someone please articulately, comprehensively and nonarugumentively explain how a slave is OWNED? Cival rights are gladly suspended behind closed door but in the vanilla world? I don't get it. Why would anyone trust someone else's decisions above theirs? Why would someone want a non-decisive partner? Ty! AND...why would either of the involved parties want to increase their life's "burdens?"

Post #: 1

RE: Owned? - 5/5/2005 11:34:28 PM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
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I don't think it increases life's burdens. It adds responcibility sure but not burdens.

I would trust my dominants descions above my own, because I would know him well and I would know he had my best interest at heart for me.. That trust wouldn't be easy come easy go tho.

(in reply to SmilinFSub)

Post #: 2

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 12:18:56 AM

allyC

Posts: 778
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

"Will someone please articulately, comprehensively and nonarugumentively explain how a slave is OWNED? Cival rights are gladly suspended behind closed door but in the vanilla world? "

One of the dictionary definitions for the word "own" is this:

own: v. tr. To have control over

I think that the word "owned" is used to mean "controlled" in the lifestyle world. Its useage has nothing to do with legality or civil rights but more with the consensual relinquishing of choice within the confines of a relationship. As long as the slave wishes to remain within the collar, the dominant party owns the slave. They have the right to guide and control the slave.

quote:

"Why would anyone trust someone else's decisions above theirs? "

Why do people like the color blue? Each person will have a different reason.

In my case, I surrendered to a man who has common principles and similar ideals. I trust him implicitly and consider him a man of superior integrity who is both extraordinarily intelligent and wise. I don't always agree with his decisions but I know that he is fully capable of making the right choices, even when they are the hardest to make. I don't expect him to be perfect but hey, neither am I. :)

He doesn't make every single decision in our life. I make lots of decisions every day, but when it comes down to the final word, it is always his.

It might sound strange, but it sure does limit the head-butting and arguments in a relationship. Decisions get made, not fought about, and we move on.

quote:

"Why would someone want a non-decisive partner?"

I don't think of a surrendered person as "non decisive" as I make decisions quite often. I just make them with his pleasure and approval in mind. If I screw up, he'll let me know. I know, however, that the decisions he makes are with my best interest in mind. He has proven this time and time again.

quote:

"why would either of the involved parties want to increase their life's "burdens?"

Two people who are interacting together as naturally and primally as they can, with all of the societal conditioning stripped away do not burden each other. On the contrary, they compliment each other, becoming something symbiotic and balanced. To be so completely in tune with your primal self and to be able to express it in such a demonstrative fashion is profoundly liberating. The weight is lifted off the shoulders, not placed there.

I can see how for some, it wouldn't feel natural or liberating but for others (my owner and I included) it simply is.

Well wishes to you,

Cav's girl
ally{C}

P.S. If a slave is a burden to an owner, then the two people are most likely not meant to be together.

_____________________________

Once I said to my owner (in a cheeky way after he had done something evil)...

"You know... Master almost rhymes with Bastard."

to which he replied, "Yup, and slave rhymes with cunt."

(in reply to SmilinFSub)

Post #: 3

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 3:52:15 AM

FuriousAngel

Posts: 102
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SmilinFSub

I don't get it. Why would anyone trust someone else's decisions above theirs? Why would someone want a non-decisive partner? Ty! AND...why would either of the involved parties want to increase their life's "burdens?"

I think it might be easier for you to understand if you thought of your own desires and simply intensified them. Your profile says you seek D/s as an escape, something fun, yet not something you care to live as a lifestyle. What is 'fun' about it to you? What is it about D/s that excites you and makes you want to experience it, even if only in private and not as a lifestyle? What inspired you to seek it out? *s*

There must be something inside that draws you? So it could be said that like anything, people enjoy and crave things at different intensities. What is exciting and fun to you, might not even scratch the surface of satisfaction to another. I feel people tend to adapt to their surroundings, so to speak, or to at the least, become more receptive to the lifestyle on a larger scale. They become intringued and wish to learn more, which opens more doors.

When I was first introduced to the lifestyle five years ago, though I was fascinated, I could not for the life of me ever imagine making it my entire world or indulging in a 24/7 relationship. I can understand your question and relate to it well. As the years went by and I read, spoke to others, and began to delve deeper into it; my needs became stronger as did my awareness.

If a person approached me today with an offer of the lifestyle as just an occasional 'escape' and something for 'fun'? I'd know imediately that we wouldn't work together. In fact, one thing I will watch closely for when I am ready to seek is how serious and dedicated a person is to the lifestyle. It doesn't mean they are 'better' or 'worse', just that our needs aren't compatible.

It may, or may not happen to you as time goes by also. The best part is that it doesn't matter one way or the other!!!! Each person is free to seek out the level of intensity, or lack thereof that works for them! At the same time, if I've learned one thing through this lifestyle? It's to never say never! LOL! If someone would have told me five years ago that I'd be where I am today? I'd have laughed in their face.

(in reply to SmilinFSub)

Post #: 4

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 4:28:00 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

My point here is not to be argumentative, nor is it to demean other people's way of doing things. I am very aware that there are Mistress or Master/slave relationships out there and that's perfectly fine. That said, I am perhaps as baffled as the OP in that I've personally never been able to wrap my head around the concept of ownership. Then again I can't wrap my head around metaphysics neither. And just because I can't wrap my head around it doesn't diminish either's legitimacy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion
I don't think it increases life's burdens. It adds responcibility sure but not burdens.

But for someone people, like me, owning would increase life's burden. I think ownership-type play is hot, I can suspend reality for a given period of time and *own* someone. I do however find the idea of owning another human being to counter to seduction, in that when you don't own someone, you have to seduce them every time. For me, that is hot.

I would think/hope that for the people that get into ownership type relationships, it wouldn't be a burden or too much to handle however. We are all wired differently.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)

Post #: 5

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 4:41:00 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

M/s or D/s ownership has nothing to do with civil rights, the law or the outside world in general - other than perhaps any fellow BDSMers you may socialise with. It's a dynamic founded opon mutual agreement between Dom and sub and forms the basis of your relationship together. And it's no-one's business but your own!

Why? To fulfill mutual needs and desires of course.... I often say D/s is about control and my need to own and control my girl is ideally matched by her mutual need to be owned and controlled, hence our unique needs compliment each other. In combining those needs, you're not increasing individual burdens, you're actually decreasing them - for *both*!

It's not that subs are indecisive or can't function in their general lives etc when single so much as they'd simply rather not be in charge. Every sub I've known actually manages her own affairs perfectly well but only as a necessity rather than desire.

From my Dom perspective, I also function quite ably when single but I'm also prone to a level of laziness if there's no-one in my life to take charge of or set the required standard for.... In that regard, you could say a sub is good for my own discipline, too! We're giving each other's lives greater meaning which means happiness and fulfillment....

But everyone has different levels of need.... If you're reluctant or unable to trust the decisions of others, especially life's big decisions, you're probably not cut out to be an owned slave but that doesn't mean you're not submissive or can't enjoy BDSM in general. All it does do is highlight the need for a compatible partner - one whose needs are closely matched to yours.

Me, I function best with an ownership dynamic in place. My girl has certain rights and choices but final decisions are always mine and she's expected to look, dress and generally present herself to my standards and ideals of an obedient, feminine woman. As my property, she doesn't have the right to refuse me anything; only the right to leave the relationship.

Focus50

(in reply to SmilinFSub)

Post #: 6

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 4:52:37 AM

SmilinFSub

Posts: 42
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline

Boy....gr8, absolutely gr8, responses.

I admit I have never found THE right guy. I won't submit / allow a male windbreaker in the vanilla world bc I do very well there on my own. But...I have often argued with the men I have known intimately and found them to lack the assertive dynamic I fantasize about.

More than anything the "level of intensity" advise rings clear to me. I like to think if "he" came along...I would decrease my limits and increase my respect for 'the other' sex. But, I too believe the intoxicating seduction element would be LOST; the foreplay non-existant bc the 'victor' would always prevail.

So as I continue to look here for my next victim, oops I mean mate, how do you suggest I learn to accept a fate I want and balance my strong need to assert myself? Truth be told, I do have a need to 'prove myself' bc I have known men (in many capactities) who are dumb asses.

Your insight is appreciated and your thoughts are increasingly respected. Focus50...I am looking in to cloning you.

< Message edited by SmilinFSub -- 5/6/2005 5:13:59 AM >

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 7

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 6:23:00 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SmilinFSub

Will someone please articulately, comprehensively and nonarugumentively explain how a slave is OWNED? Cival rights are gladly suspended behind closed door but in the vanilla world? I don't get it. Why would anyone trust someone else's decisions above theirs? Why would someone want a non-decisive partner? Ty! AND...why would either of the involved parties want to increase their life's "burdens?"

I have no idea. My place as owned property is to make the Owners life easier, to decrease his burdens. I have MORE decisions and responsiblities in my life because I am his owned slave. He expects a LOT from me.

I don't get why some doms want to micromanage, the Owner certainly does not.

Why would I trust and support his decisions above mine? It's who I am, it's my orientation.

(in reply to SmilinFSub)

Post #: 8

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 6:25:55 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
Every sub I've known actually manages her own affairs perfectly well but only as a necessity rather than desire.

Ha where do you live that has such great subs?

From my experience, subs are like anyone else, some are very good at managing their lives and some are just awful and totally screwed up.

Same with doms of course.

I am expected to manage my affairs very independently in relationship with the Owner, he doesn't want to be bothered with mundane things that I should be able to do on my own.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 9

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 6:27:53 AM

MemphisDsCouple

Posts: 146
Joined: 11/1/2004
From: Memphis, TN, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SmilinFSub

So as I continue to look here for my next victim, oops I mean mate, how do you suggest I learn to accept a fate I want and balance my strong need to assert myself? Truth be told, I do have a need to 'prove myself' bc I have known men (in many capactities) who are dumb asses.

You know the old saw about having your cake and eating it too. Just won't happen. So, you have to decide what's important to you.

Check out yesterday's USA Today. There is a very revealing story about a woman who is an author, Muffy Mead-Ferro. (Note she did not take her husband's name. Does that say anything?) Her new book is "Confessions of a Slacker Wife". In the interview with USA Today, the author says she doesn't bathe every day, she surely doesn't shave every day and as to cooking, "Sometimes I just throw together leftovers that aren't compatible." As to sex, she says, "I have a lot of things on my mind," and "we can always do it tomorrow. And on most days, tomorrow sounds preferable because today, I'm really just too tired." The article features a picture of her with her smiling hubby. But hey, if he will allow that shit.... more power to them both.

But! If that's the kind of man you choose for a mate, you will live your life thinking of your mate(s) as your "victim(s)". You won't have a lot of respect for them as men, and rightfully so. If we had ever met, that girl (Mead-Ferro) would likely never made it into my bed - I would have sent her on down the road long before we ever got to sex.

Do you think she is happy with her husband? I don't. I think she has reached an *accommodation*. I see a lot of people who live that way. Settling.

Do you think her book is written the way she serves meals? The way she serves her husband and family? Do you think she accepted a thrown-together job from her editor or publisher? Not likely. She has made her decision in her life as to what is most important to her. And it wasn't her family. So, she ends up with a wimp of a husband who will let her come to bed unwashed and refuse sex, who will eat what is put before him and smile for the camera. Shrug.

So make up your mind what is important to you. The man you will respect is unlikely to allow you to continually "argue" as you put it. He'll be gone. The man you will respect will expect some harmony in his home and in his relationship. He will expect to be your first priority. He will expect teamwork and focus. He will expect a singularity of purpose shared by you both. Surely you know another old saying, "too many cooks spoil the stew". The man you will respect will know that steering a course for a family unit is best done with one hand on he tiller - His.

So make up your mind what you want in your life. Decide where your priorities lie. 'Cause you surely can't have your cake and eat it too.

Postscript:

You are welcome to print or save this post for your own use. Please do not copy it to any public or semi-public forum (including email groups/lists) without my express permission. Thanks. All rights reserved. (I write this postscript because after-the-fact someone wrote to me to inform me that they had copied a prior post I wrote to another list. So, I thought I'd better clarify what my preference/policy is regarding use of what I write.)

B. (the male half of MemphisDsCouple)

(in reply to SmilinFSub)

Post #: 10

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 7:09:13 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Will someone please articulately, comprehensively and nonarugumentively explain how a slave is OWNED?

it would be like trying to describe the color red to a blind person.

(in reply to SmilinFSub)

Post #: 11

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 7:50:05 AM

SmilinFSub

Posts: 42
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline

My jaw drops more with each response. I have not heard much I do not agree with. You are absolutely correct re: RESPECT. I demand a lot of myself (self respect) and I need someone who is like-minded and possesses good judgement.

You are also right that I have been able to push my agendas through w/ unrelenting effort (bitching?). There can only be one ALPHA , eh? Geez why didn't someone tell me? :)

For the record...I do bathe daily. Shaving, well..that is another story. ;)

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 12

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 8:54:14 AM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Years ago, when I first entered the scene I also couldn't comprehend how anyone could take on the burden of a slave, as opposed to a submissive. Now I own one and would be willing to own a few more if their needs my needs and everything else meshed just right.

My slave has proven to be much more a blessing than a burden, she works hard and provides me with many things that I would be doing without due to time limitations more than anything else. But similar to Emerald's Owner I am not a micro management type, my slave makes decisions and she does it well. I've found that a slave's biggest problem is often avoiding trying to do too much. I function as a regulator more than anything else.

" I want you to do this this this and this, no you can't volenteer for that you have enough to do already."

Owning a person in the context we have is about having the responsibility for them but also recieving the benifits of their labor. The decision as to who I want to own is always based on the trade off, Over the period of years will this person provide more value than they cost me? That value is based on many things most of them not sexual, and many if not most of them impossible to determine their monetary value.

In Leather

Archer

(in reply to SmilinFSub)

Post #: 13

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 9:11:15 AM

subcheryl

Posts: 280
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline

SmilinFSub, Hmmm, in some ways you sound almost the way I did before I stumbled on BDSM as a way of life. The men I dated in the vanilla world, for the most part were somewhat nice men, but just couldn't satisfy what I needed in my life, and I will say there were a couple that with a little awakening, would have made good Doms. But there was always something missing, and out of lifes necc. I was always the dom part in relationships, the more I learned of the different aspects of BDSM, the more I realized what was missing in my life, I am now collared by a very caring, and sensitive man. He is My Master, he has taken control just the way I needed him to, so guess the key is find someone who fills that hole in the way you need him to and you will be giving more than you can ever imagine. Best wishes on your path of discovery

(in reply to SmilinFSub)

Post #: 14

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 9:25:41 AM

SmilinFSub

Posts: 42
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline

Again...AWESOME info.

The benefits of slave ownership sure have been spelled out and understood. What is in it for the slave? Why would I want to go from 'subfreedom' to slave?

Also... I believe "If you have to ask, it is not worth having." Does that make sense to anyone? Does it apply to my vanilla men potentially becoming pseudoDoms? Wouldn't they just be placating me (again?)

I am an accomplished business woman. Does that present a problem..working outside the home?

I guess my duplicitous beliefs are this: Whore in bdroom, lady in livingroom, cook in kitchen and breadwinner........ I better run before I am stoned when I admit that a man should help with housework?

< Message edited by SmilinFSub -- 5/6/2005 10:00:51 AM >

(in reply to subcheryl)

Post #: 15

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 9:25:47 AM

PassionsHarmony

Posts: 22
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline

I find that slaves mimic many old fashioned marriages. Deeply religious based households are based on headship. In those, and yes I still know couples that live this way. The wife most times does not work out of the home though may. She runs the household within what her husband expects. She makes decisions for that household based on her knowledge of her husbands desires and the guidelines he has set forth. Some husbands in that type of household will micromanage while others will not. She may have an opinion and express it. In most caases that is in fact what the husband wants. He does not want a nonthinking partner, but at the same time once her opinion is heard it is his to decide. It is her place once the decision is made to support it, honor it and carry it out. No, she does not have to agree with it, but I do not believe anyone truly agrees 100% of the time with things we sometimes need to do. Heck we may not always like the things we need to do, but that is part of life. The differenc I see between a headship arrangement and a D/s Master /slave arrangement is that M/s gets the benefit of some wonderful kink thrown in. lol

(in reply to subcheryl)

Post #: 16

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 10:16:58 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SmilinFSub
The benefits of slave ownership sure have been spelled out and understood. What is in it for the slave? Why would I want to go from 'subfreedom' to slave?

Well, I'm not a sub or a slave, to me, though, being owned is its own reward--it's enough to know that I belong to to the person I love with all my heart. To know that I am making his life better, easier, and more fun is exactly what I want and have wanted.

quote:

Also... I believe "If you have to ask, it is not worth having."

I tottally disagree with this. My partner wants to marry me. He had to ask. I think it's definatly worth it :)

On a less drastic note, I really like getting hit, but I often have to ask because it isn't something the partner does very often on his own. I dont' feel slighted because I have to ask.

quote:

I am an accomplished business woman. Does that present a problem..working outside the home?

depends onyour partner. It certainlydoesn't with mine. I go to school and work. I still belong to him. ~shrug~

quote:

I guess my duplicitous beliefs are this: Whore in bdroom, lady in livingroom, cook in kitchen and breadwinner........ I better run before I am stoned when I admit that a man should help with housework?

My partner helps with housework. Yup, my dominant partner helps me clean. It makes thigns easier, becuase there simply aren't enough hours in the day for me to do everything that the house requires.

I can definatly see what you're saying about who you want to be. To me, it breaks down to "capable and independant woman who belongs to her partner, above all things, heart, body and mind"

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to SmilinFSub)

Post #: 17

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 10:36:02 AM

SmilinFSub

Posts: 42
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline

Where have you folks been all my life?

....seems like a real community / family..filled with as many variables as each partnership is willing to tolerate.

Do we have a ceremony now? I feel I have arrived.

(Just don't ask me where I am).

Ty you all. Before this talk I thought of 'slave' in a derogatory sense. Now ... it doesn't seem anything but desireable.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 18

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 10:43:36 AM

ruffnecksbabygir

Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline

great thread!
There are times when i still wonder the same thing....and i am an owned slave, been in the lifestyle for over 5 years now, and still there are times when i don't understand it myself.

The benefits i see are simple, i feel satisfied as a woman, i feel most feminine when i am dominated, i feel complete, i feel as if this is truly who i am and what i need in a relationship. i give myself completely to the person who owns me but by the same token i receive all of him in return...it is a two way street.

i am his completely, i live for him, i do everything inorder to make his life easier and to make sure he is always pleased, but he also lives for me by making sure i am taken care of, by showing constant interest in me, in my life. He micro manages me because a.) he enjoys it b.) he is damn good at it & c.) he get's the same satisfaction from owning me completely than i do from submitting myself to him entirely.

i just love the intensity of a D/s relationship, or i should say, of my D/s relationship....i was married for 7 long years (vanilla) and i have never felt so lonely in my life...i received no attention, i never felt loved or cared for...we were more like enemies than life long partners...in my marriage now, to my Master, we live to make eachother happy and we thrive on it...we give 100% of ourselves to the relationship and it just makes us feel complete in every way.

But, as i said above, there are still times it becomes over whelming and i wonder to myself, wtf? why am i willingly giving myself completely to this person?! and then of course he will just look at me and i will melt into a puddle and it all comes back to me lol...oh, that's cheesy i know, but hey i'm a newlywed, i'm suppose to be repulsively mushy! lol

to the OP ~ best of luck on this wonderful journey you have begun!~

< Message edited by ruffnecksbabygir -- 5/6/2005 10:46:18 AM >

_____________________________

~hugs~
Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

"And Those Who Danced Were Thought To Be Quite Insane By Those Who Could Not Hear The Music" -- Angela Monet

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 19

RE: Owned? - 5/6/2005 10:58:43 AM

SmilinFSub

Posts: 42
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline

Oh yea.....only one thing missing....

A man.

lol

I wanna grow up and be like Mercnbeth ;)

Next topic? How about helping me develop a fetish? Are subs/slaves 'allowed' to have them or is that only for the doms??

Or better yet....how do I digest, " I like being hit." That is an honest bit of info but one I AM UNABLE TO 'get.' I am ABSOLUTELY not judging ... only looking to understand. Help me out?

< Message edited by SmilinFSub -- 5/6/2005 11:24:17 AM >

(in reply to ruffnecksbabygir)

Post #: 20

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