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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 12:51:08 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

What part of "All men are created equal, and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights", isn't totally clear.


Fargle, that's totally clear to me.
Somehow you seem to be having a problem with it.
The Founding Fathers were talking about the then "United States."
They couldn't of course have applied that concept to foreign countries like Russia or Germany for example could they?
And they certainly didn't apply it to slaves or indentured servants.
If they or (one) of them went to say Italy or of course *England* and tried to tell people that they would have been thrown out of the country.
It's *very* generous of you to want to bestow the same rights that American Citizens enjoy to al qeada but for what purpose?
The only thing they should get is a bullet in the head and we should send a bill to their families for that bullet like the Chinese do.
Perhaps what you're confusing is the "inalienable rights" part and treating non Americans like Americans.
You have to be an American Citizen to get most of the rights that we have in this country, i.e. those rights are not "extended" to foreign nationals.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 5/7/2007 12:54:34 PM >

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 12:57:19 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

What part of "All men are created equal, and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights", isn't totally clear.


quote:


The Founding Fathers were talking about the then "United States."


There was no United States in 1776. The US Constitution wasn't ratified until 1789.

Are you SURE you understand this?

I guess some truths are more self-evident than others...

Let's break this down:

1) DEFINE: "ALL"
2) DEFINE: "MEN"



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:01:32 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

What part of "All men are created equal, and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights", isn't totally clear.


quote:


The Founding Fathers were talking about the then "United States."


There was no United States in 1776. The US Constitution wasn't ratified until 1789.

Are you SURE you understand this?

I guess some truths are more self-evident than others...

Let's break this down:

1) DEFINE: "ALL"
2) DEFINE: "MEN"




Fargle, the *BIRTHDAY* of the "United States" is JULY 4TH 1776.

And "ALL MEN" means all men.
Would you go to China or N. Korea and tell them they're "All Equal?"
(Well, they kind of are! lol)
If you want to be "the equal" of an al qeada scumbag go right ahead.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 5/7/2007 1:05:17 PM >

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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:13:28 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

The US Constitution wasn't ratified until 1789.
When it was, it was not ratified by the world, just the US for US citizens; defined, in 1989, much differently.

The US needs to conquer and assign Statehood to much more of the world to apply our laws globally.

quote:

Are you SURE you understand this?
?


popeye,
I'm noticing that your picture is showing a big bruise developing on your forehead from banging it against the wall.

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:17:30 PM   
cjenny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

Perhaps it is more a case of "right time, right place". I am sure everyone is agreed on the aspect of free speech but that does not mean that we should be happy with people turning every thread into a pro / anti war rant. I am pretty sure that those that start threads about the war would be upset if we suddenly hijacked them to discuss piercing techniques.




Oh that was well said! Maybe it ought to be put in every thread as a gentle reminder?


Edit oopsie: OP the very first thing I thought of was our grocery stores!

< Message edited by cjenny -- 5/7/2007 1:18:32 PM >

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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:20:18 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

The US Constitution wasn't ratified until 1789.
When it was, it was not ratified by the world, just the US for US citizens; defined, in 1989, much differently.


No, the Constitution doesn't say Jack about what Citizens may or may not do.

The Constitution delegates limited authority from The People to the Federal Government.

In other words, since The People have not given The Government PERMISSION to snatch people off the street then raping, and torturing them, then it does not HAVE THAT AUTHORITY.

And according to the Declaration of Independence, any government which WOULD do that, doesn't have any legitimate right to govern any longer.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:24:37 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

Perhaps it is more a case of "right time, right place". I am sure everyone is agreed on the aspect of free speech but that does not mean that we should be happy with people turning every thread into a pro / anti war rant.



It's not about the war. It's about Life, Liberty, Freedom, Rape, Murder and Torture.

It's about Human Rights.

Would you tell a Jew trying to get people to understand the moral bankruptcy of Nazism back in 1935 that it wasn't the "Right Place, or Right Time"?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to susie)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:29:06 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

The US Constitution wasn't ratified until 1789.
When it was, it was not ratified by the world, just the US for US citizens; defined, in 1989, much differently.

The US needs to conquer and assign Statehood to much more of the world to apply our laws globally.

quote:

Are you SURE you understand this?
?


popeye,
I'm noticing that your picture is showing a big bruise developing on your forehead from banging it against the wall.


Merc, that's nothing. Fargle just needs my council and guidance every now and then.
I think he gets confused every once in a while with the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" thing.
I don't much care for Bush either but I'm not going to side with al qeada because of it.
Bush could pull an al qeadas  guys eyes out with hot pliers and I'd applaud the deed not Bush.
It's called "The Stockholm Syndrome."
A lot of lefties have it these days.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:31:13 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		I love they way my insistence on obedience to The Declaration of Independence and Constitution is considered by some to be "Siding with the Enemy".

Like I said before, if you can do it to a Muslim, why can't you do it to us Jews?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:37:14 PM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		Would you guys please stop hijacking threads?

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.


~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:39:24 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I love they way my insistence on obedience to The Declaration of Independence and Constitution is considered by some to be "Siding with the Enemy".

Like I said before, if you can do it to a Muslim, why can't you do it to us Jews?




Fargle, al qeada's out of the loop when it comes to the Constitution and Declaration of Independance (especially).
And yes, they can grab any group that threatens the U.S.and I'm glad they can!
If I could get ahold of them before the U.S. govt got them it'd be real ugly. I live in S.Carolina and we have some swamps here in the low lying areas with 1,000 - 1,500 lbs Aligators in them.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:40:09 PM   
subfever


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quote:

the cubs will win this year. ild bet on it



It took me a minute to figure out what this has to do with what makes America great. Then it hit me. The Cubs are the most lovable and adored losers on the planet.

Well, we all know that the Cubs won't win it until Hell freezes over. So if you're right, I guess we'll all be dead come this October.

So whaddya think, PA... should I begin spending the last of my money on wine, women, and song? ...

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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:40:35 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

No, the Constitution doesn't say Jack about what Citizens may or may not do.
It doesn't? I thought it provided "rights"? Your "Rights" definition appears a moving target. You think it is your right of expression to walk naked in the street is constitutionally guaranteed? Try it, you'll find yourself "snatched" pretty quickly. 

US citizens have the "rights" as they've evolved under th constitution. They end at its borders. Were it a perfect document there would be no need for any amendment. The first ten were an afterthought. If the Constitution was directed to the world I'll admit to being wrong and missing that fact when reading it. Who should the laws be applied to? Every person in the world?

Purely a rhetorical questions. I don't want any bruising on this bald head. You go ahead fargle. I admire your passion even if I have no idea of your goal.

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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:41:34 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		If you don't believe the response, "Nothing is good about America as long as it denies Due Process and Equal Protection" isn't appropriate, that is of course, your opinion.

I, myself feel the damage done by these acts negate ANY possible good that could be done.

It's sort of like asking, "So, what made Nazi Germany GREAT?"



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to cjenny)
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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:42:46 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

Would you guys please stop hijacking threads?


OK, back on topic. "What makes America great".
I can see pictures on tv of al qeada guys making Butt Pyramids and laugh my ass off!

(in reply to cjenny)
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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:50:52 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

No, the Constitution doesn't say Jack about what Citizens may or may not do.
It doesn't? I thought it provided "rights"? Your "Rights" definition appears a moving target.


No. RIGHTS come from OUR CREATOR. See the Declaration of Independence.

SOME RIGHTS are so important, that even though the US Constitution recognizes ALL unenumerated rights ( via the 9th and 10th Amendments ) they are SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED because they are of exceptional important.

Why would you think we ONLY get those rights enumerated in the Constitution, when the Declaration of Independence clearly says they come from Our Creator?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:55:30 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

If you don't believe the response, "Nothing is good about America as long as it denies Due Process and Equal Protection" isn't appropriate, that is of course, your opinion.

I, myself feel the damage done by these acts negate ANY possible good that could be done.

It's sort of like asking, "So, what made Nazi Germany GREAT?"




Fargle, your premise is wrong!
Al qeada aren't "entitled"  to due process and equal protection under our laws.
And what "damage" are you talking about? What'd we do make al qeada "angry?"
How about "due process" under the Geneva Conventions and we shoot them as spies?
And if it were a group of Jews, Irish or anyone else who threatened the U.S. we should round them up too.

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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 1:57:26 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

No, the Constitution doesn't say Jack about what Citizens may or may not do.
It doesn't? I thought it provided "rights"? Your "Rights" definition appears a moving target.


No. RIGHTS come from OUR CREATOR. See the Declaration of Independence.

SOME RIGHTS are so important, that even though the US Constitution recognizes ALL unenumerated rights ( via the 9th and 10th Amendments ) they are SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED because they are of exceptional important.

Why would you think we ONLY get those rights enumerated in the Constitution, when the Declaration of Independence clearly says they come from Our Creator?




Oh, then muslims don't get any rights then.
They have a different "creator" than us.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 2:01:48 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Oh, then muslims don't get any rights then.
They have a different "creator" than us.


So, us Jews don't get any rights either? I mean, I assume you're a follower of Jesus, and if so, then you and I have VERY DIFFERENT Creators, biblically. Let's start with your trinity being explicitly incompatable with our beliefs.

And how does that fit with the "All Men Are Created Equal" thing?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 2:07:26 PM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

Perhaps it is more a case of "right time, right place". I am sure everyone is agreed on the aspect of free speech but that does not mean that we should be happy with people turning every thread into a pro / anti war rant.



It's not about the war. It's about Life, Liberty, Freedom, Rape, Murder and Torture.

It's about Human Rights.

Would you tell a Jew trying to get people to understand the moral bankruptcy of Nazism back in 1935 that it wasn't the "Right Place, or Right Time"?




Well I guess it is my Human Right to say I think you constantly hijacking threads is childish boring nonsense. And it is my freedom of speech to say so.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 60
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