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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 2:09:58 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Don't worry about popeye: he's from NH :-)

Mazeltov!

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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 2:13:19 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		There is an old saying, "Those who do not stand against, agree", which means that if you do not denounce the rape, torture and murder done in your name, then you sanction it.

When your soul is judged, will they find you did *everything* in your power to stop it?





_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to susie)
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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 2:15:03 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I don't much care for Bush either but I'm not going to side with al qeada because of it.
Bush could pull an al qeadas  guys eyes out with hot pliers and I'd applaud the deed not Bush. It's called "The Stockholm Syndrome." A lot of lefties have it these days.
popeye,
I share your sentiments. Seeing what occurred in Germany and most recently in France, along with the failure to produce by this Congress of Change; may be justifying the paranoia.

Meanwhile...
"What makes America great?"

Two key "rights". The right to succeed and the right to fail. It comes along with the opportunity to try. Not completely lost in the era of entitlement and the fast creeping "nanny state".

As much as I detest the exploitation of the criminals coming into the US illegally; in their goal,and the goal of all immigrants, is the answer of "What makes America great?". I won't speak to the scientific effort or the reliability in the report, but I read that globally 1 Billion people wish to immigrate to the US. Sure they come to succeed, but most only want the opportunity to try.

What's "great" is that we could carry on this nonsensical debate in any public forum with the only consequence being that we'd have to read it later. Opportunity is all around if you are willing to get up and strive for it. How "Great" is it that in the US the people behind "Jack-Ass The Movie" have the opportunity to make millions? So did the inventor of the "pet rock". So did Ron Popeil, the man behind the "Popeil Pocket Fisherman". These examples should inspire anyone to at least make the attempt.

It's "Great" that greatness isn't confined or defined by wealth. Pubic charities and the people behind them that generate millions for the homeless, the sick, or any cause; are "Great". It is great that you don't have to be "great", or wealthy, or anything that you don't want to. It's great that there are still consequences for actions.

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 2:15:53 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		You are so ignorant, popeye, it would be endearing weren't it so creepy :-)

Islam actually considers Christ as a prophet. For a Muslim, the other two monothestic religions (okay I'll remind you what they are: Judaism and Christianity) are expressions of worship of the same 'god'.

You are so lost, popeye... get out of the bog!

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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 2:22:43 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Why would you think we ONLY get those rights enumerated in the Constitution, when the Declaration of Independence clearly says they come from Our Creator?

The Declaration of Independence was a 1776 Continental Congress version of the Iraq war resolution. It contains no laws. It was directed to the King of England, created as a document so that the rest of the world would know what the signatories were trying to accomplish, and why.

Damn I wish you could combine your passion with facts and bottle it! You are sooooooooo cute!

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 2:26:57 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Why would you think we ONLY get those rights enumerated in the Constitution, when the Declaration of Independence clearly says they come from Our Creator?

The Declaration of Independence was a 1776 Continental Congress version of the Iraq war resolution. It contains no laws. It was directed to the King of England, created as a document so that the rest of the world would know what the signatories were trying to accomplish, and why.

Damn I wish you could combine your passion with facts and bottle it! You are sooooooooo cute!


And as such, it is the FOUNDATION of Laws. No Government, or Law antithetical to the premise "All men are created equal and endowed by our creator with unalienable rights" has any legitimate right to be obeyed.

The Declaration of Independence gave Legal Weight to the Sovereign State Constitutions ( e.g. : New York, April 20, 1777 ), and those Sovereign States then created a few Republics, settling on the current incarnation ( Excepting Lincoln's Military Dictatorship ) .





_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 2:28:47 PM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

There is an old saying, "Those who do not stand against, agree", which means that if you do not denounce the rape, torture and murder done in your name, then you sanction it.

When your soul is judged, will they find you did *everything* in your power to stop it?






Do not make assumptions about what I stand for just because I believe that this is not the right place for the postings you are making. If you want to continue to post about the rape and torture why not continue to do so on the thread that was started for that purpose.


(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 2:35:14 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Because in this thread, I'm pointing out that the Rape, Torture, and Murder done in the name of Americans offsets any GOOD which might POSSIBLY ever been done.

How many GOOD ACTS make up for the rape and murder of a 14 year old girl?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to susie)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 2:47:41 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

How many GOOD ACTS make up for the rape and murder of a 14 year old girl?
Can you make these tough questions multiple choice?

What makes America great? HUMOR in the face of tragedy!

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 2:53:02 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		No-one asked Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi for any hints before she was gang-raped, murdered, and burned to conceal the evidence by FOUR US SOLDIERS.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 2:57:53 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		*sings God bless America My home sweet home*

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 3:03:36 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
Oh beautiful, for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America! God shed His grace on thee,
And crown thy good with brotherhood, from sea to shining sea.

Oh beautiful, for pilgrims' feet
Whose stern, impassioned stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America! America! God mend thine ev'ry flaw;
Confirm thy soul in self control, thy liberty in law!

Oh beautiful, for heroes proved
In liberating strife,
Who more than self their country loved
And mercy more than life!
America! America! May God thy gold refine,
'Til all success be nobleness, and ev'ry gain divine!

Oh beautiful, for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years,
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America! God shed His grace on thee,
And crown thy good with brotherhood, from sea to shining sea!

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 3:09:33 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		I prefer:

THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND
words and music by Woody Guthrie

Chorus:
This land is your land, this land is my land
From California, to the New York Island
From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters
This land was made for you and me

As I was walking a ribbon of highway
I saw above me an endless skyway
I saw below me a golden valley
This land was made for you and me

Chorus

I've roamed and rambled and I've followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts
And all around me a voice was sounding
This land was made for you and me

Chorus

The sun comes shining as I was strolling
The wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling
The fog was lifting a voice come chanting
This land was made for you and me

Chorus

As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there
And that sign said - no tress passin'
But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!

Chorus

In the squares of the city - In the shadow of the steeple
Near the relief office - I see my people
And some are grumblin' and some are wonderin'
If this land's still made for you and me.

Chorus (2x)


_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 3:15:02 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Hmm Maybe Guthrie was a little too much of a socialist for most?

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 5/7/2007 3:16:19 PM >

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 3:33:24 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Why would you think we ONLY get those rights enumerated in the Constitution, when the Declaration of Independence clearly says they come from Our Creator?

The Declaration of Independence was a 1776 Continental Congress version of the Iraq war resolution. It contains no laws. It was directed to the King of England, created as a document so that the rest of the world would know what the signatories were trying to accomplish, and why.

Damn I wish you could combine your passion with facts and bottle it! You are sooooooooo cute!


It also stipulates that we control our governmetn not the other way around!  It also enumerates our rights withint our chosen form of government, the republic.   It is a document that is heralded "The Supreme Law" of the land in any law college in the union.

So to clarify it does both!  You are also 100% correct as far as a proclamation to the king

From the law dict 1856 that is

CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. The fundamental law of the United States.

LAW. In its most general and comprehensive sense, law signifies a rule of action; and this term is applied indiscriminately to all kinds of action; whether animate or inanimate, rational or irrational. 1 Bl. Com. 38. In its more confined sense, law denotes the rule, not of actions in general, but of human action or conduct. In the civil code of Louisiana, art. 1, it is defined to be "a solemn expression of the legislative will." Vide Toull. Dr. Civ. Fr. tit. prel. s. 1, n. 4; 1 Bouv. Inst. n. 1-3.

2. Law is generally divided into four principle classes, namely; Natural law, the law of nations, public law, and private or civil law. When considered in relation to its origin, it is statute law or common law. When examined as to its different systems it is divided into civil law, common law, canon law. When applied to objects, it is civil, criminal, or penal. It is also divided into natural law and positive law. Into written law, lex scripta; and unwritten law, lex non scripta. Into law merchant, martial law, municipal law, and foreign law. When considered as to their duration, laws are immutable and arbitrary or positive; when as their effect, they are prospective and retrospective. These will be separately considered.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 5/7/2007 3:50:34 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 3:59:03 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

There is an old saying, "Those who do not stand against, agree", which means that if you do not denounce the rape, torture and murder done in your name, then you sanction it.

When your soul is judged, will they find you did *everything* in your power to stop it?






Do not make assumptions about what I stand for just because I believe that this is not the right place for the postings you are making. If you want to continue to post about the rape and torture why not continue to do so on the thread that was started for that purpose.




dont you want to hear counter points?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to susie)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 3:59:29 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

No-one asked Abeer Qassim Hamza al-Janabi for any hints before she was gang-raped, murdered, and burned to conceal the evidence by FOUR US SOLDIERS.




I dont recall Lt. Calley and his men whether they asked the people who lived in the village of My Lai how they felt about being massacred by US Soldiers in country to protect the Vietnamese from the Red Menace.

Sinergy

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"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 4:22:15 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

It also stipulates that we control our governmetn not the other way around!  It also enumerates our rights withint our chosen form of government, the republic.   It is a document that is heralded "The Supreme Law" of the land in any law college in the union.

Real,
I've never heard the Declaration of Independence referred to as the "Supreme Law" of the land. I've heard the Constitution referenced as such, but not the Declaration.

The Declaration lists many things, but no laws. It implies goals for the newly formed union, but no laws.

A definition, even one as old as 1856, is not relevant to a document written in 80 years previously. It can be a case of making the definition fit the document; but its doubtful any of the signatories provided any concurrence.

The guys who signed the Declaration had no way of knowing that they would succeed. As is often pointed out here, had they failed they would not have been the founding father's of the US, but instead a footnoted group of terrorists in the history books of England. Would that have occurred, their Declaration would have the same law inference as that of an Al Qaeda Declaration in Iraq. Now once the US leaves, the Declaration may inspire a Constitution of laws but the two documents are independent.

You can want to apply it as a legal document but on its own, it stands on its own by the name its referenced - "Declaration".

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 4:25:39 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		What I love about the USA is the Constitution and the Bill of Rights,
the freedoms of speech, religion and assembly.
 
I am always amazed at the people who come here from all over
the world as visitors and students and legal immigrants, adding
their perspectives and experiences to the cultural mosaic.
 
And I adore the amazing diversity of our natural wonders,
the mountains, rivers, lakes, plains, seashores, canyons,
deserts, volcanoes and glaciers.  And the beautiful flora
and fauna of our land fills me with great joy.
 
We have much to be thankful for and much to preserve and protect.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: What makes America great? - 5/7/2007 4:31:03 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:


The Declaration lists many things, but no laws. It implies goals for the newly formed union, but no laws.


The union was not formed until 13 years after the Declaration of Independence.

And it doesn't IMPLY anything. It CLEARLY STATES:

quote:


all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


and it goes on to then explain why we bother with Governments in the first place.

quote:


— That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,


and that Governments can turn against The People, and what we are obligated to do when it does.

quote:


— That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.


Imply my ass. It says that Government is The People's Bitch, and should it forget that, The People get to put it to death.





< Message edited by farglebargle -- 5/7/2007 4:32:03 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 80
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