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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 2:20:31 AM

leatherorlace

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Hexzactly!!!!
Gentry

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 3:48:29 AM

cjenny

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Wow I leave this thread for a couple of days & it comes back to life lol.
Sinergy, honestly now did you really expect no one to react to your words? Why did you post them in the first place if not to get a reaction?

If the parents all know what lines youre going to use then why did a father call asking if his daughter had actually been asked if she wanted butt-fucked?

Do you not see the danger with this approach? The emotional danger is of what I speak. Granted I am unusual in that I grew up not even permitted to say 'shut up' much less swear.
But the approach IS sexual in nature and I really wonder how many instructors enjoy being allowed to ask a young girl those questions without reprecussion.

I can't help but think you posted all of this to garner a reaction.

I'm not against training on the contrary I think a lot more ought to be taking self defense courses. It builds self esteem and confidence.
Asking a kid if she has been buttfucked doesn't build that, especially since you stated that is an unrealistic scenario.

Sinergy I am strongly questioning the tactic not you in particular. I just don't get why you posted all of that then acted surprised at the reaction.... or were you goading people?

ANYONE posting about butt fucking, brazilian waxes in conjunction with talking to a kid is going to get reaction no matter the context.
Plain and simple this is pretty much a sex site.

I'm done with this. It is so obvious that you do not understand why anyone would be upset & that genuinely saddens me.
Feet of clay n all that jazz.

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 3:55:27 AM

seeksfemslave

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There's is far worse in one of his earlier posts. A specific scatalogical reference. In fact for some time no one did react to his posts.
I think you will find that in this thread little me started the ball rolling.

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 4:17:08 AM

cjenny

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Yes, and that gave me the courage to speak up as well starting on post #137. One of the hardest things on CM is for me to speak up 'against' a long timer.
But............. I stayed even when I felt tag-teamed.
I did it!!! LOL. I'm just sooooo tuff.

edit for oopsie grammer

< Message edited by cjenny -- 5/12/2007 4:22:30 AM >

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 4:20:31 AM

seeksfemslave

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With very well reasoned posts MsCJ if I may say so.
Dont get too uppity now. lol

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 4:24:12 AM

cjenny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

With very well reasoned posts MsCJ if I may say so.
Dont get too uppity now. lol

Uppity sounds kinda cool.

Don't worry, that wouldn't happen. Now maybe if I had a strong gigantic ego?...?

Thank you seeksfemslave.

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 5:04:18 AM

spankmepink11

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

It is not what I say that freaks them out as much as it is the way I say it.
Sinergy

I also would have to question the references to "butt fucking and brazillian waxes" if you stand by the above statement.
I can respect and agree with the need for self defense training for women and applaud the empowerment it gives them. I think it can be done just as effectively without telling a 14 yr old that you're going to butt fuck them.
No matter how good the intstructors are at being "bad" i simply cannot imagine someone being more afraid of their instructor (in a controlled environment) than they would be of an actual assailant.

I do often wonder why you seem to include your self defense teaching experiences in so many of your posts, even when they have no bearing on the subject at hand.

This is not a flame or an attack......just an observation...

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 5:40:59 AM

caitlyn

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General response ...

I would bet that most fourteen year olds have heard this sort of language before. I don't think its that big a deal.

If you showed me a million studies, I would never believe that physical resistance lowers your chance of being hurt. Out on the streets, these are the Huns ... if you resist, they have to prove they are stone cold.

Some of these courses (and I have taken one) try to convince you that most of these rapists are mentally and emotionally weak introverts, that can't get a girl any other way, etc, etc, etc ... I guess it feeds the sales beast to make people think that. Reality is that most of these people are hardened career criminals ... If you try to kick one of these guys in the nadz and miss, he is going to fuck you up, and good.

I'm not big enough to fight back, or fast enough to run. I carry a registered hand-gun and have NO doubt at all that I could use it on anyone that threatened me. I'm a good shot, we go out in the country and practice about once a month or so. Thats my self defense course.

This completes my jack of the thread ... seems like a pattern for me lately.

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 9:33:14 AM

cjenny

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You're my hero of the day

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 9:58:07 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

If you showed me a million studies, I would never believe that physical resistance lowers your chance of being hurt. Out on the streets, these are the Huns ... if you resist, they have to prove they are stone cold.

I've got to agree with one little difference. Having worked for several years with rapists and muggers, the psychopathic ones, which are the archetypes that are most discussed on these threads, that will attack a complete stranger, are not stone cold if you resist. They are stone cold fullstop! They plan their attacks and are not opportunists and react through anger, they would kill and maim before being humiliated by their prey and are ice cold about it. The most chilling thing I found when talking to them in prison (I'm not a professional, I used to teach painting in prison) is that they can discuss their horrific crimes with each other as though they were discussing something mundane like motorbikes. I wouldn't stay in the same room as them without guards, they are liable to attack you just to break the boredom.

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 10:48:54 AM

Shanghaid

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Quick thoughts on self-defense teaching and stuff -

1) I believe Sinergy is wrong to verbally & offensively abuse his students. It makes no sense (to me). He even says, (not verbatim) "It's not what I say, it's the way I say it". Exactly! Then why say _that_?!?! I'm a physically large guy. I can (& do) intimidate without words. The last bar-fight I was almost in, a drunk guy with 5 friends started picking on a buddy of mine. I inserted myself between the two and informed him there wasn't going to be a fight. The drunk (French) guy continued. I eventually grabbed him by the lips - seriously! - and ennunciated, "You, Don't, Want, To, Fuck, With, Me!". And patted him on the cheek. I assumed he would throw a punch at me then - I expected it - you don't touch a person's face. Huge personal space invasion. He and his buddies just left <shrug> All good. No fight.

2) I agree with seeksfemslave, you _don't_ try to kick a guy in the nuts. Since age... 2 (?), we guys have learned to protect our jewels. I've never been kicked in the nuts (though people have tried). You can easily block it with the knee. I did teach my roomate - and this was her, her girlfriend and myself just talking causually 'cuz she specifically asked me about it - your best bet is a finger strike against the eyes or throat. Easier to do.

3) I'm not with caitlyn. People shouldn't carry guns. We're part of a social contract (ala John Locke). We gave that up when we agreed to society. Now, that might be a 'best case scenario' but I don't think the streets are safer with ANYONE carrying guns aside from law enforcement. And THIS from a former Marine and handgun owner. I'm actually for gun control - and not just as a means to hit a target - honestly in favor of *only* cops having handguns. Want a weapon? Carry mace or pepper spray. Works! Non-lethal, not likely to spray it on a bystander. All good.

4) I don't wanna ruffle Rumtiger's fur but if you're dealing with a drunk in a bar, most likely - and this is me speaking personally - you're likely to be drinking as well and your reflexes are going to be likewise impaired.

Background/Dislaimer: I have never taught self-defense. I gave my roomate & her girlfriend a few tips only because she respected my opinion and specifically asked me. I an NOT an instructor in ANY martial art. I'm a former Marine and have had about 15+ years of various martial arts. I'm 6'4" and 230 lbs. My issues are NOT that same as a 14 y/o girl.

My suggestions for women's self-defense are pepper spray/run + judo/ju-jitsu or kung-fu (one of the nastier styles - with anti-joint & critical strikes). Judo is good for women - its doesn't matter the size of your opponent as it uses their strength & weight to your advantage and it shows you how to fight on the ground. Ju-jitsu is judo w/ some nice anti-joint stuff tossed in (ju-jitsu VERY simplified for the purposes of this discussion). Kung-fu takes time but it's good - depends a lot on the instructor and the style. Judo is pretty much judo everywhere. I've never taken ju-jitsu.

As Sinergy mentioned early on, situational awareness is key. Park in lighted areas. Don't go into alleys. LOOK AROUND YOU. Have your keys out & ready when you're going to your car. Notice where the exits are. Don't wander 'unsafe'* areas alone at night. Common sense stuff.

Cheers all,

SH'd

*'unsafe' - if you're not sure, consider it unsafe.

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 10:55:31 AM

cjenny

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"*'unsafe' - if you're not sure, consider it unsafe. "

I like that. It is really a phrase I am going to try and keep in the front of my mind. Mostly cuz I plan to move from the middle of nowhere ( I do not even own a house key) to a major city. I'm going to have to learn how to be aware of my surroundings, that is an alien concept for me! So.... thankies muchly for that particular phrase

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 1:35:55 PM

Rumtiger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shanghaid

4) I don't wanna ruffle Rumtiger's fur but if you're dealing with a drunk in a bar, most likely - and this is me speaking personally - you're likely to be drinking as well and your reflexes are going to be likewise impaired.

Yeah...but I was less drunk then they where lol. I never said it dident happen one or two.....or five times before heh.

I have a tendancy to nurture my drinks....maybe thats why stranagers get so annoyed with me?

< Message edited by Rumtiger -- 5/12/2007 1:37:33 PM >

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 4:02:57 PM

juliaoceania

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fast reply

Everyone is a self defense expert. They should open their own school...

Having actually witnessed a class and having read information about this school, I would say that there is a reason that this is the oldest and most experienced school dealing with self defense in existence, and there are people that often contact the owner of this school in matters of self defense nationwide, including those in the security industry. Now if others have reams of experience and/or information to indicate how Sinergy's training somehow harmed students, I would suggest they post something other than their personal opinions, because personal opinions mean nothing in comparison to the track record of the company he works for. All the mock assailants say similiar things to the students, it is a part of the class, and seeing that this approach is used nationwide, and not just by a few lone mock assailants, then it must have a purpose. Since the classes were developed by women, I think it would be safe to say that this approach was not developed for the thrills of mock assailants.

All I can say is that this thread has indeed shown how small minded people are when their personal opinions come face to face with facts. I prefer opinions based upon researching facts and eye witnesses (like myself) or people that have first hand experience. Since many of these students go on to take advanced classes and some of them become assistants, I would guess they must not feel victimized by a class that from what I could see is empowering.

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 4:14:47 PM

caitlyn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shanghaid
3) I'm not with caitlyn. People shouldn't carry guns. We're part of a social contract (ala John Locke). We gave that up when we agreed to society. Now, that might be a 'best case scenario' but I don't think the streets are safer with ANYONE carrying guns aside from law enforcement. And THIS from a former Marine and handgun owner. I'm actually for gun control - and not just as a means to hit a target - honestly in favor of *only* cops having handguns. Want a weapon? Carry mace or pepper spray. Works! Non-lethal, not likely to spray it on a bystander. All good.

I never agreed to anything, and when I needed "society" the most, it was only there to hurt me just a little bit more.

You are 6'4", 230 pounds and an ex-Marine. Respectfully, that makes is very easy for you to decide I don't need a gun. I suppose if I was 6'4", 230 pounds, and an ex-Marine, I might feel the same way.

Perhaps society should work a little harder to provide for the protection of it's citizens, and then some of us that weigh 105 pounds soaking wet, won't feel the need to make the thoughtful decision to travel armed.

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 4:34:04 PM

xBullx

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I said I'd protect you..................as my property of course.

Your pal,

Bull

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 4:59:42 PM

Shanghaid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

I have a tendancy to nurture my drinks....maybe thats why stranagers get so annoyed with me?

WHAT?!?!!! A drink-nuturer!!! On the same boards as me?!! Why you...

Heh-heh, <kidding>.

The only time I get annoyed at bars is when service is slow and my drink is empty overlong - or if wankers mess with my friends or bully people.

SH'd

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 5:31:07 PM

mistoferin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I prefer opinions based upon researching facts and eye witnesses (like myself) or people that have first hand experience.

So I guess you would agree that the opinions I have expressed are indeed valid, as I meet all of the above requirements. Just because I or others view it differently does not equal small minded.

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 6:32:44 PM

Shanghaid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

You are 6'4", 230 pounds and an ex-Marine. Respectfully, that makes is very easy for you to decide I don't need a gun. I suppose if I was 6'4", 230 pounds, and an ex-Marine, I might feel the same way.

Understood. There's a reason I gave my 'pedigree'.

Again I'd politely suggest pepper-spray and taking judo. A gun can be taken away and used against you. I don't think that happens to spray as much as guns. I think - I'll repeat that 'cuz the grammar is important here - I think guns give people a false sense of security.

What is your second line of defense if the gun isn't available or taken away?

Take some judo - you could probably get 6 months of classes for the cost of your gun - and you will take that new skillset with you wherever you go and no one can take it from you. If you're attacked while taking a shower, you have judo.

Stun guns seem good as well. Not tasers, stun guns. You have to be close to your attacker but they seem more effective. My opinion here should be suspect because I'm not researched on the topic. I think a heavy leather coat could stop a taser. But there must be a reason cops carry tasers v stun guns. I'll ask my brother about this - he's in law enforcement.

My class was usually about 1/3 guys, 1/3 women, and 1/3 kids. There was no macho bullshit in judo. Those guys like TKD. The instructor liked to demonstrate techniques on us big guys. He was average build. It made it more impressive when he threw us about. You can learn judo at any age.

I know the first martial art I'd have any kid of mine take would be judo. It's completely non-aggressive and wonderful for self-defense. It's healthy and you learn how to fall (your first week of class). It may sound silly but falling is an important skillset as well.

quote:

Perhaps society should work a little harder to provide for the protection of it's citizens, and then some of us that weigh 105 pounds soaking wet, won't feel the need to make the thoughtful decision to travel armed.

Now this is a good topic of conversation. Making the citizenry safer - what can be done?

I live in Shanghai, China. Population ~17 million people. That's twice that of New York City. We watch crime shows on TV. New York is a dangerous place, yes? In Shanghai, my mother - with her oxygen tank in tow - could theoretically walk from one side to the other of this city at anytime (if she were physically capable) and be perfectly safe. ANYTIME, day or night.

Hell, in my 'safe' midwestern hometown of ~250,000 people, there were areas I wouldn't go after dark. They wouldn't be great in the daylight. That's a pity.

Shanghai does have crime - pickpockets mostly - but extremely little violent crime. The police force isn't omnipresent and they're not stormtroopers. It's just a different mindset.

I believe a large part of this is the unavailability of guns. The violent crimes committed are NOT gun-related. They are the typical 'crimes-of-passion' that happen everywhere. Domestic disputes & such. Knives & blunt objects used as weapons.

http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita&int=-1 - has some good info on countries and murder. China doesn't make the list because it's numbers are too small (murders, not population).

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0921299.html - for safest and most dangerous cities in the US.

A good use of our tax dollars (I pay US taxes) might be to examine the differences between Brick, NJ (listed safest) and St. Louis (most dangerous).

If you don't feel safe where you live - MOVE. Predators love scared people. Staying there, scared, empowers them more. I didn't move to Shanghai 'cuz it was so safe. I quite happily noticed it after I moved.

I realize moving isn't an option for everyone. Again, it's about situational awareness. If you don't feel safe someplace - be it an alley, a bar, or a city - you're probably right. You stay there at your own peril.

SH'd

BTW, it's "former"-Marine, not "ex".

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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/12/2007 6:47:24 PM

Shanghaid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Everyone is a self defense expert. They should open their own school...

...this is the oldest and most experienced school dealing with self defense in existence...

I know what I know. <shrug> I don't teach - don't wanna. I do martial arts for my own edification and physical training.

And this school is? I don't know what it is. I've just read it's techniques described & criticized. Perhaps a link would be helpful? I doubt the moderators would have any issues with one.

BTW, I talk about judo a lot but I've only had ~3 years of judo. I personally prefer mixed martial arts and like kickboxing. However I think it's too aggressive for personal defense and doesn't teach ground skills.

This is all us posting our opinions based on experiences. I'm new to the forums but have already learned a lot. You can't ever have too much information and I'll again say all the stuff I post is just my opinion - YMMV

SH'd

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