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RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/9/2007 1:09:50 AM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

Sinergy...are you sure you aren't just a tiny bit masochist?? LOL



I know I am a masochist on some level.  Or just depressingly stupid.

I have never met anybody that made me think it would be fun to bottom to.  I do a fairly effective job of keeping myself hopped on endorphins all on my own.

I have done martial arts and self defense since I was 17.  I have done all sorts of stupid things which have resulted in damage to me.

Thank you for the lovely compliments.  The students tell me I have changed their lives in a positive way.  I dont think men or women are the enemy.  I think it is men and women working together to end violence.

Sinergy




I think I would go with masochist because you aren't in any way stupid. I don't doubt for a moment that you haven't changed their lives. When they're working together to end the violence there won't be an enemy in the end. You know now people are going to think I'm nice or something for complimenting you.

Hey I need to practice some groin kicks!


< Message edited by SDFemDom4cuck -- 5/9/2007 1:10:43 AM >

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/9/2007 1:16:48 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
We have a drill we call "knees across the mat" which comes from the whole "hands across America" paradigm.  Most of the muggers hate doing it, but I find it wonderful.  Students who dont get positive experiences kicking a guy in the groin generally dont kick there in actual fights.  I hate that.  Want to take out a guy, kick him in the testicles.  A students who leaves one of my classes with backoff (or a lack of ability to) kick a guy in the family jewels and I feel I am making a shoddy product.

Email me on the other side, jo, and I will give you the site for the group down in Sandy Eggo that does this.

I usually sign up to mug down there when they need people.  The instructor who lives there was one of my students in 1990 and I think the world of her.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/9/2007 1:23:08 AM   
SDFemDom4cuck


Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline 		Check your mail. I'm off to bed.

Personally there's nothing quite as satisfying as a groin kick in my opinion LOL it amazes me that it's the most effective method of self defense (groin kick/knee/elbow/grasp and twist) and yet so many women will shy away from it even in such a dire predicament.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/9/2007 12:34:55 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		deleted - repost

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 5/9/2007 1:24:48 PM >

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/9/2007 12:41:45 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
P.S. I didn't see any Mick Jagger in there.


Nope.  But a lot of David Bowie.  Oh.  Wait.  That's my private photo album.  In my fantasy, anyway.


One of my favourite Bowie clips. Maybe not fulling your dreams, but a Bowie clip all the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F52LI3UGxI


_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/9/2007 12:59:22 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Don't know - don't care - don't see it matters.



Now I am confused, you mentioned Dateline because?

Dont want to know the answer, dont ask the question.

Sinergy


The "Don't know - Don't Care" was directed to you responding with; "Do you have any idea how many people in show business, law enforcement, or politics I have been the mock assailant for?"

Still...don't see it matters. The comments are only troubling personally due to the age of the woman subjected to the training. If I wasn't clear that I think it inappropriate, especially considering your first hand account that it is not reflective of reality, my apologies.  

I brought Dateline into the discussion because the IM's used against on-line predators of 14 year olds are very similar. I don't think you need me to re-quote the entire post.

I did ask and want to know the answers. The relativity to training politicians, show business people, etcetera. Didn't notice your response to this until today - but since it's here - would appreciate response to the questions asked?

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/10/2007 8:58:14 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Don't know - don't care - don't see it matters.



Now I am confused, you mentioned Dateline because?

Dont want to know the answer, dont ask the question.

Sinergy


The "Don't know - Don't Care" was directed to you responding with; "Do you have any idea how many people in show business, law enforcement, or politics I have been the mock assailant for?"

Still...don't see it matters. The comments are only troubling personally due to the age of the woman subjected to the training. If I wasn't clear that I think it inappropriate, especially considering your first hand account that it is not reflective of reality, my apologies.  

I brought Dateline into the discussion because the IM's used against on-line predators of 14 year olds are very similar. I don't think you need me to re-quote the entire post.

I did ask and want to know the answers. The relativity to training politicians, show business people, etcetera. Didn't notice your response to this until today - but since it's here - would appreciate response to the questions asked?


I accept your apology.

You did make the comment about Dateline.  Abusive behaviors exist below public awareness.

Your comment about the way children are assaulted was something I found amusing.  Do you really think I woke up one morning and decided to ask a 14 year old if she had a Brazilian because I have some deep sexual need to know?  I teach women in realistic scenarios using verbal and physical tactics that a woman being assaulted will encounter.  I study what methods are used by assailants, I use these to teach the students how to respond or deal with them.

I could sing "happy happy joy joy" as I assault them, but it lacks a certain realism which I think is important in her empowerment.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/10/2007 9:19:48 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Sinergy,
I'm not trying to knock what it is that you do because I think that it is a really good thing. I don't know how I feel about the sexual overtones with minors aspect...I haven't really given it much thought but it certainly does make me uncomfortable.

I would like to point out one thing though....and again...I'm not trying to knock. I know that you think you are eliciting a response that is close to what occurs in a real assault....and I think that under the circumstances there is a good likelihood that you probably come as close as you can get in that controlled environment. But...having been involved in fighting myself....having been involved in classes much like the ones you teach....and having been a victim of a violent assault....I can tell you that the adrenaline load you see in your class environment is not comparable to what occurs in an actual assault. When someone signs up for a class they know that the instructor is not going to actually rape and maybe kill them. They know that they are going to walk out of that class alive. In an assault none of those things are certainties. In an assault....those possibilities drive adrenaline and fear in proportions that you can not re-create.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/11/2007 8:42:35 AM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I can tell you that the adrenaline load you see in your class environment is not comparable to what occurs in an actual assault.



While I understand this is your personal perspective, this is not what the graduates of ours (who are assaulted after the taking the class, in some cases years later) class report back. Most of them maintain that they were much more scared by the muggers in class than they were by the actual assailant in the actual fight they were in.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/11/2007 8:48:39 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Sinergy,
I haven't figured out if you tangent responses are because you can't answer the points addressed or just don't want to. Either way, you've managed to avoid speaking to why you and your employer use tactics and techniques that are not, per your experience, based upon reality.

Titillation and shock value aside, why are you able to speak to a 14 year old with impunity, the same words that get "predators" arrested?
quote:

You did make the comment about Dateline.  Abusive behaviors exist below public awareness.
Yes I did, and I'm still waiting for you to address it.  

quote:

Your comment about the way children are assaulted was something I found amusing.  Do you really think I woke up one morning and decided to ask a 14 year old if she had a Brazilian because I have some deep sexual need to know? 
You've already said, this isn't your script or idea - you are "just an assailant" so you're thinking isn't germane. Whether the owner has some "deep sexual need to know" is still in question. Your participation however indicates acceptance.
quote:

Don't I teach women in realistic scenarios using verbal and physical tactics that a woman being assaulted will encounter. 
No you don't, you said so. "Date rapes" occur on dates with people they know. Physical assaults usually don't include any dialog. A bar conversation about butt fucking or Brazilian isn't likely to happen to an under aged 14 year old.
quote:

I could sing "happy happy joy joy" as I assault them, but it lacks a certain realism which I think is important in her empowerment.
You could and it would be just a relevant and effective. Maybe more so because words are often not directly correlated to actions. The parents of these kids, and that is what a 14 year old is, paid for this course. There is no way to duplicate the situation they will encounter. People who have encountered them have reported back to you that your methods of verbal "encouragement" are not accurate. Singing "happy, happy joy joy" has the same reference to reality.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/11/2007 9:05:29 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I can tell you that the adrenaline load you see in your class environment is not comparable to what occurs in an actual assault.



While I understand this is your personal perspective, this is not what the graduates of ours (who are assaulted after the taking the class, in some cases years later) class report back. Most of them maintain that they were much more scared by the muggers in class than they were by the actual assailant in the actual fight they were in.

Sinergy


Does that honestly make sense to you? That someone would be more afraid of a class instructor who placed their safety and well being as a priority vs. a complete psychotic lunatic who they didn't know what he would do to them or if they would even survive the encounter. A class appointment that they had prescheduled and paid for(and most likely read and signed waivers for) that would fit into their schedule vs. a blind sided attack on the street.

Honestly Sinergy, if that makes any real sense to you I would suggest that maybe you don't understand all of this as well as you think you do.

I believe that the type of classes that you teach are good in that they give women skills that most women aren't normally taught. I believe that such classes can induce a very highly charged, emotionally cathartic reaction in prior victims and that in doing so can empower them greatly. But I can not believe that you (general you) can possibly create a scenario or perceived level of threat that would come close to evoking the fear, adrenaline, emotion or reactions involved in an actual assault.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 5/11/2007 9:07:08 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/11/2007 9:10:46 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
Mercnbeth,

I am a bit puzzled why you continually attack me on this thread.  I did address your questions.  You responded that you dont care, arent interested, dont want to know, etc.  This most recent swipe is you taking a bunch of other comments out of context and putting them all together.

Sure, a 14 year old is probably not going to be assaulted in a bar.  At least not legally for another 7 years.  In the world I live in, it is not inconcievable that some teenagers will sneak into bars, imbibe illicit substances, or put themselves into other dangerous situations.  Not saying I support it, but whether you believe it or not, we really dont have Barney Fife around 24/7 to keep our children safe.

Our training involves something otherwise called muscle memory.  A person is adrenalized the first time they ride a bike.  Their body learns how to do it.  They will not forget how to ride a bike no matter how long it is between bike rides.

The 14 year old in question might be on a date in 2 years in a car with somebody from her high school and get attacked in the school parking lot.  She might be walking home from school and have somebody pull over in a car and try to force her into the car.

One thing I hear frequently from the students at graduations, in response to questions asked by their parents, is that this course has taught them to make different choices in life, to have awareness about their life, surroundings, people they interact with, etc.  They do not make these statements from a position of fear.

I would be interested in hearing your sources to support your statement that most physical assaults dont include any dialogue, as this is completely incorrect from my own research and training. 

I look forward to reading the your source materials.

Sinergy

p.s.  Parents "paid money" for the course, as you pointed out.  Additionally, these same parents were told prior to paying money what sorts of verbal scenarios we would be subjecting their children to.  At the two high schools I teach at, our course is the most popular course on campus.


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/11/2007 10:24:42 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		A question is an "attack"? Would than mean you'd be justified in physically assaulting me? That the case, maybe you should consider using my questions instead of references to 'butt-fucking' and 'Brazilians.

quote:

I would be interested in hearing your sources to support your statement that most physical assaults dont include any dialogue, as this is completely incorrect from my own research and training. 
I look forward to reading the your source materials.

"All" was never said. Just the opposite, I said most dialog with a predator was unthreating in attempting to put the victim at ease.

Regarding the dialog you use, I'll use no less an authority than Sinergy:
quote:

The students fighting for their lives actually found their real-life assailants boring and inarticulate in their attempts to be nasty.

quote:

Our training involves something otherwise called muscle memory.  A person is adrenalines the first time they ride a bike.  Their body learns how to do it.  They will not forget how to ride a bike no matter how long it is between bike rides.
You misplace my concerns with your motivation techniques versus the muscle memory or physical training techniques. I have no argument or even cause to debate the physical aspects. In fact if you didn't point out it's irrelevance to reality, I wouldn't be so focused in the propriety of the verbal aspect. 

I find the comparison to the "catch a predator" predator exchanges interesting. I would expect that using the derogatory slang regarding a girls heritage, race, or physical attributes also in play for motivation. My challenge is two fold. You've already conceded your verbal taunts are not reality, why use them. Any scenario you attempt to create still has the subject in an artificial environment - with an audience; which brings into question the effectiveness of any taunt.

They train soldiers, ALL over the age of 14, to kill on command. In basic training, they stab dummies, shoot targets, and participate in 'war games'; all the while subject to taunts much more personal and insulting than I'd believe you think appropriate to use on your 14 year olds. Yet, with all that training, and taunting some get to the battlefield and freeze. I appreciate your goal, and your physical tactics, but your expectation of success regardless of any taunt used, is misplaced. With that in mind, I don't think it is ever appropriate to use 'butt fucking' as a motivational tool for a 14 year old.

Since you feel these questions and points are an "attack", should I ever see you at a munch should I wear my 'cup'?

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 5/11/2007 10:44:05 AM >

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/11/2007 10:39:56 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

A question is an "attack"? Would than mean you'd be justified in physically assaulting me? That the case, maybe you should consider using my questions instead of references to 'butt-fucking' and 'Brazilians.



Not sure what this means.

Please clarify.

quote:


quote:

I would be interested in hearing your sources to support your statement that most physical assaults dont include any dialogue, as this is completely incorrect from my own research and training. 


I look forward to reading the your source materials.




Not sure what this means.

Please clarify

quote:



"All" was never said. Just the opposite, I said most dialog with a predator was unthreating in attempting to put the victim at ease.
Regarding the dialog you use, I'll use no less an authority than Sinergy:
quote:

The students fighting for their lives actually found their real-life assailants boring and inarticulate in their attempts to be nasty.



Because we "overtrain" our students.

I suspect most men would agree that one full-power knee kick to the testicles will bring them down.

So my forcing the students to kick me half a dozen times fails the "reality" test, but the lesson it does give
the student is to keep fighting until the fight is over.

quote:


quote:

Our training involves something otherwise called muscle memory.  A person is adrenalines the first time they ride a bike.  Their body learns how to do it.  They will not forget how to ride a bike no matter how long it is between bike rides.
You misplace my concerns with your motivation techniques versus the muscle memory or physical training techniques. I have no argument or even cause to debate the physical aspects. In fact if you didn't point out it's irrelevance to reality, I wouldn't be so focused in the propriety of the verbal aspect. 


As I said, I am interested in reading your source materials for the statement that there is no verbal dialogue during a physical assault.


Quoting a comment I made out of context seems a bit childish to me, but if that is the best you can come up with...

quote:



I find the comparison to the "catch a predator" predator exchanges interesting. I would expect that using the derogatory slang regarding a girls heritage, race, or physical attributes also in play for motivation. 



I do not ever trash a person's heritage (with the exception of the wealth of her family),

I completely avoid any racial slurs of any type,

If your comment about physical attributes meaning her weight or whatever, I have no need to use those.

As far as the usual comments about her womanness, sure.

quote:



My challenge is two fold. You've already conceded your verbal taunts are not reality, why use them. Any scenario you attempt to create still has the subject in an artificial environment - with an audience; which brings into question the effectiveness of any taunt.



You forgot to state "In my opinion" which would cover the relevance of your "challenge" perfectly.

quote:



They train soldiers, ALL over the age of 14, to kill on command. In basic training, they stab dummies, shoot targets, and participate in 'war games'; all the while subject to taunts much more personal and insulting than I'd believe you think appropriate to use on your 14 year olds. Yet, with all that training, and taunting some get to the battlefield and freeze. I appreciate your goal, and your physical tactics, but your expectation of success regardless of any taunt used, is misplaced. With that in mind, I don't think it is ever appropriate to use 'butt fucking' as a motivational tool for a 14 year old.



Dummies and targets and laser tag war games do not shoot back. 

There is a level of realism to their training.

I understand you have a strong opinion on the matter, but I asked you for relevant sources to support your opinion from people with expertise and experience in training under adrenalin.

quote:



Since you feel these questions and points are an "attack", should I ever see you at a munch should I wear my 'cup'?



This comment seems rather childish to make.  I simply asked for you to source your opinions.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/11/2007 10:57:08 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Sinergy,
This is your quote:
quote:

I would be interested in hearing your sources to support your statement that most physical assaults dont include any dialogue, as this is completely incorrect from my own research and training.
I look forward to reading the your source materials.

If you don't know what it means I can't help you.

Maybe the reason you don't want to understand is that for at least the fourth time, I point out that YOU are my reference source. And you ignore responding.

YOU said;
"The students fighting for their lives actually found their real-life assailants boring and inarticulate in their attempts to be nasty.

Now I'm "not sure what this means" if it doesn't mean that what you say doesn't reflect any reality.

quote:

Dummies and targets and laser tag war games do not shoot back. 
Assailants of a 14 year old won't have a parent audience. Now that we've both made an irrelevant but factual statement what purpose did either serve?

quote:

This comment seems rather childish to make.  I simply asked for you to source your opinions.

Come now sinergy, you say that use of a verbal attack is reason to feel threatened and can/should solicit a physical response. You found my questions an "attack". For the life of me I don't know why you think so. I know it isn't a matter of you being insecure in your position, so why shouldn't I be concerned if I meet man with your reactionary training who feels I attacked him?

You are my source. "Childish" doesn't work with me to distract. These are your words, your actions, and your positions. If its so childish why is it so hard to address?

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/11/2007 10:57:54 AM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I don't think it is ever appropriate to use 'butt fucking' as a motivational tool for a 14 year old.


Fine.  Don't sign your UM's up for this class.  I would definitely sign mine up if I had any, because I would rather they be fully prepared in the real world to face an assailant who is really going to butt fuck them if they don't know how to effectively resist. 

You have the right to decide what your own kids should be subjected to, but nobody has the right to decide that for everybody's kids.  There are some very good arguments for using realistic verbal assault desensitization techniques in this kind of survival training, and if you don't agree with them, you don't have to allow your kids to participate. 

You can also get your kids excused from Health class if you're a Jehovah's Witness or if you morally object to minors having any sexual education.  I think that people who try to shelter their kids from the real world in this way are operating in a dangerously delusional state and they are hurting their kids much more than helping them, but I don't have the right to force any education on their kids that these parents don't want them to have.  Conversely they don't have the right to say that my kids cannot have any education that I want them to have, as long as the process of that education does not violate existing laws.

You could make an argument that a threat to "butt fuck" constitutes a verbal sexual assault, and would therefore be illegal.  But in the context of a training class that the kid and their parents signed up for with full advance knowledge and consent, I seriously doubt that any judge would hand down a sentence.

Sinergy, I hope your signed consent forms are clear and explicit on the subject.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/11/2007 11:12:47 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Fine.  Don't sign your UM's up for this class.  I would definitely sign mine up if I had any, because I would rather they be fully prepared in the real world to face an assailant who is really going to butt fuck them if they don't know how to effectively resist. 
Agreed! Its the reason they have more than one flavor of ice-cream.  

quote:

You could make an argument that a threat to "butt fuck" constitutes a verbal sexual assault, and would therefore be illegal.  But in the context of a training class that the kid and their parents signed up for with full advance knowledge and consent, I seriously doubt that any judge would hand down a sentence.

Sinergy, I hope your signed consent forms are clear and explicit on the subject.

Not just "an argument" but in fact the only argument, on two fronts. One the reference that you give regarding sexual assault. On that issue, similar to a waiver of liability, it would not hold up in any legal proceeding. If it is considered illegal to have such a verbal exchange with a 14 year old, no parent can waive a right to accept it as part of training.

The second issue is that those words do not reflect reality, based upon what Sinergy said.

Take them both together. Some parent is offended, and goes to police officer. The police investigate, and it's confirmed that the assailant used the a reference to "butt-fucking" in the exercise. It confirms the "assault". Then somehow this fact comes to light; "The students fighting for their lives actually found their real-life assailants boring and inarticulate in their attempts to be nasty." The, "training for real life defense" is invalid.

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/11/2007 11:17:10 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I don't think it is ever appropriate to use 'butt fucking' as a motivational tool for a 14 year old.

Fine.  Don't sign your UM's up for this class.  I would definitely sign mine up if I had any, because I would rather they be fully prepared in the real world to face an assailant who is really going to butt fuck them if they don't know how to effectively resist. 


I see the problem as being threatened to be butt fucked by someone you just paid to play/pretend that scenario would effectively negate any perceived "threat". If I took such a class (and I have) and the instructor grabbed me by my hair, threw me down and threatened to butt fuck me, it would be hard for me to suppress the laughter. Actually, he could heap a whole bunch of insults on top of it and say that he was going to butt fuck my fat white cracker ass and it wouldn't elicit any more "real" fear in me.

I do believe that the physical responses that are taught in such classes are worthwhile and useful tools. But I think it's a real stretch to say that you can fully prepare someone for the fear, emotion and adrenaline that comes with a real life assault by insulting or threatening them in an environment that they know they are completely safe in.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/11/2007 11:24:13 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Sinergy,

Every credit to you for your patience with this one, and for being willing and able to defend your position.

Ultimately, only you and your pupils will know if the people who leave your class leave better prepared to defend themselves. If they're giving you the thumbs up, then that's a good indicator.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Turning every thread into a political debate - 5/11/2007 11:34:31 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

"The students fighting for their lives actually found their real-life assailants boring and inarticulate in their attempts to be nasty." The, "training for real life defense" is invalid.


Been following this exchange, and I wanted to chime in, that Merc has been consistent, and logical, but no one seems to want to address his point.

I'm with ya, merc.

FirmKY


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 180
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