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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/29/2007 7:53:29 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EldroRolod

Saddam DID have WMD. Everyone knew it going back to Reagan.. yes, Clinton knew it too..

No argument here, George H. W. Bush provided them to him to use against the Kurds.

quote:

Now, we gave Saddam 16 months to do whatever he was going to do with any nasty items he had in his possession prior to our invasion.

Exactly, we gave him 16 months to disarm and get rid of all his WMDs.

Of course, when we invaded he did not have any.

I dont know about you, but it seems to me that the evidence suggests he disarmed like he was told to do so.

If you disagree with this, I would be interested to hear your sources. Most of the ones I have read who claimed Syrian involvement ended up being discredited. We had satellites and flyovers for months and years prior to invading, with sensors designed to find radioactive materials and probably biological, and you know what? Their evidence came back inconclusive.

One of the reports provided to try to engender support in Europe was a picture of a trailer park, with the caption "suspected biological warfare plant."

quote:

There are intel reports from european agencies that clearly state that mohammed atta met with Iraqi intelligence agents twice in the former czech republic prior to 9/11. It is unrefuted.

I read that Saddam refused to actually do anything with Al Qaeda, largely because he was concerned at the possibility that becoming allied with a fundamentalist Shiite group would a) piss off the US and b) piss off the Iraqi Shiites.

I am happy you teach Terrorism. What is curious about the things you state is that it sounds like you are happy that our government intrudes on the privacy of the average US citizen, in direct contravention of the Bill of Rights, and you see getting rid of Habeas Corpus and Innocent Until Proven Guilty as being outdated and unworkable constructs.

As a teacher of Terrorism, I am sure you are aware that the ultimate goal of terrorists is to foment fear on the part of those terrorized, and force them to change their own society to a totalitarian nightmare.

Might want to take a moment to read 1984 to learn what sort of a society you are proposing.

Sinergy

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/29/2007 8:08:12 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EldroRolod

As one who serves this country with pride and honor, it saddens me that our citizens are so ignorant of the facts. It saddens me that their only source of information comes from anti-government and anti-war blogs or websites paid for and supported by billionaire Marxists.

......so all those government statements, Colin Powells report to the UN and a myriad of other sources that support the war don't exist?
Or is it that they simply don't count as information?
..........and since when has the BBC been funded by billionaire marxists?

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/30/2007 8:10:40 AM

mnottertail

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Um, did you actually watch his address to the UN? He showed some little shitbreather cropduster airplane, that was his one and only picture, the rest was innuendo---He stood up and made a fool out of himself and fell on the sword, and if you remember stayed pretty goddamn silent after that, then faded away, and if you have seen any interviews since---well Colin didn't believe it niether. He has went on to say that he is in some considerable uncomfort with the administration.

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/30/2007 8:17:49 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Um, did you actually watch his address to the UN? He showed some little shitbreather cropduster airplane, that was his one and only picture, the rest was innuendo---He stood up and made a fool out of himself and fell on the sword, and if you remember stayed pretty goddamn silent after that, then faded away, and if you have seen any interviews since---well Colin didn't believe it niether. He has went on to say that he is in some considerable uncomfort with the administration.

...all true, it was one of the most uncomfortable performances i have ever seen from a politico. However, according to EldroRolod watching it apparently doesn't count as information.......either that or thee and me are both funded by millionaire Marxists.........it's a little unclear.

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/30/2007 8:38:59 AM

mnottertail

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millionaire Marxists? perhaps that is the key to this conundrum. By god, that would make a swell song title, stick a few riffs in there from the Horst Wessel song and we are good to go.....

It is funny how people will admit and recognize that the public pablum is not the real or complete deal and then become so very unobservant of things that happen right in front of them.

Now the Chief of staff has simply said, two things tell if you are winning. Does the population think that overall things are better now than they were before, and does the populus think that the future will be better than today.

Both of these questions were answered in the negative.

Then, the CINC in Iraq has stated that the military strategy is to segregate the terrorists and troublemakers into cells away from the general populus, forever.

The first case is a public announcement by the military, who are not as beholden to political leaders as most since they are career (but they have to be careful that they do not come straight out against the administration) that it aint working.

The second statement is an indication that there will be a screeching of breaks on the offensive aspects of the war.

Both of these pronouncements came within a short time of each other, there is obviously collusion there.

It would appear that the military is getting luke warm, perhaps even tepid about the continuance of this travesty.

But I am sure there are those here that will augur something different from this, more's the pity.

Ron

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 6/30/2007 8:40:19 AM >

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/30/2007 8:48:28 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

It would appear that the military is getting luke warm, perhaps even tepid about the continuance of this travesty.

...i would imagine that the military types who understand strategy probably were always tepid about this (mis)adventure. However it is always tricky for them to outright oppose political policy.
It seems to me that this whole issue has highlighted a division between people all over the world. Some see the world as a complex and delicate machine, with many variables and grey areas. Such people are always acutely aware that we don't know enough. Others however seem to yearn for a less complex world and so strive to create simple solutions and paradigms to describe them.
As a self confessed member of the former group i feel that the latter group, often from the best of intentions, make the world a much more dangerous place.
Bush, from my point of view, if not a member of the latter group is trying to appeal to that groups sense of logic. Possibly they are even in the majority......but sometimes, situations simply don't respond well to the mass mind.

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RE: Presidential Scholars Pimp Slap Bush over Torture. - 6/30/2007 10:54:31 PM

dragone

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Don't think too hard Sinergy; when you and Fargle start spouting facts; you are distrubing the status quo.

I am really shocked why you two spending time presenting FACT and Documentation, even Consitution evidence by article...... I'm still waiting to read Orionthewolf's rebuttal; WHY, I Mean WHY, can't you immulate one of our greatest and most knowledgable political commentators this country has ever produced, the authoritative last word on politics, accurate, honest UNBIASED reporting....Rush Limbaugh.

Look, we are good, they are evil; that's it. We want to bring peace and democracy to a troubled region, that is rife with evil intent.

And...remember that photo, of that very, very long cannon barrel, that we were told PROVED Saddam was going to fire his WMD at us. Some 'insurgents' among us said it was a pipe for transporting oil, part of a system of oil rigs or something...I thought they used trucks for that. Oh, damn, I can't provide the photo, nor the docu on that; but, it was there, did anyone see it; or am I decieved.

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