quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

If penetration is inherently ANYTHING, then some version of that statement must be true, even if it's, "You're only a dominant male because you haven't had a real leatherdyke plow you from behind yet."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shawn1066

I think the theory that penetration is inherently submissive is really utter bullshit..
. 
Just my humble opinion,
DV's Fox

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silverbunny

I apologize in advance for the long post.  This question comes to me after a conversation in the vanilla world with some friends after we went to a male dancers (female client) strip club.  The group was co-ed. Given my involvement in the BDSM world I found this particularly interesting.   I'm including an exerpt from the transcript in case anyone wants detail.  The different colours speak to different people that were talking (urgh apparently different colours don't work).  A disclaimer that the conversation happened after a fair amount of alcohol consumption so we do fall off track a bit and cut each other off etc.

Essentially my question is whether the act of penetration is inherently submissive - can a woman get penetrated and still be Dominant in that act?  If so, how?  I always said yes, provided she in ontop, and using certain techniques like orgasm control etc. she can assert her Dominance.  But this is a new perspective for me.

But when you’re talking submissive and dominant the simple matter of fact is there’s no way to be dominant when you’re getting a penis like shoved in you, like that is a submissive role so for women to go to a strip club and be sexualized they have to be submissive
But why?
Because where the girl whips the boy and so forth and that’s a kink but the truth of the matter is so long as there is penetration towards the woman – penetration is a submissive role that is a sad matter of fact and its not that sexy a fact to acknowledge but penetration is a submissive role and that is why forever and ever girls will always be in the submissive role
But a woman can push a guy down onto a bed and climb ontop of him and…
But so long as he’s not hard nothing’s gonna happen, that’s why when guys can’t get hard…its their fault no matter how ugly or fat or idiotic she is
But I know a fair amount of guys to say the least that the concept of a woman pushing them down on a bed, straddling them and climbing ontop of them, ripping their clothes off, would get them hard, and the woman can tease them…
That’s not rape.  Then its not rape
I didn’t say it was rape, we weren’t even discussing rape
Then its not submissive
That is submissive, for the woman to climb ontop?
That’s not submissive. I mean a woman can….
That is submissive, but the sexual act will never be submissive for the man so long as she is being penetrated
If she penetrates him with a dildo in the ass
Exactly there you go
Yes, that … I am submissive.  Its all about fucking your loved one
Penetration is submissive – there is nothing more submissive than being penetrated.
Because the man is going into you you’re not going into the man.
Women can definitely be dominant and they can take power in the fact
They can be dominant by beating a man or penetrating him,
There are definitely girls that can totally excite me that I definitely didn’t want to and that is power man
I agree, but …
What does that have to do with anything?
Everything has to do with penetration vs. whats it called when you get penetrated?  Penetration vs. penetrated. K it all has to boil down to that, I am sorry, everything you want to boil it down to the essence of everything, and it all has to do with who is getting penetrated.
Because in prison when you’re getting penetrated then you are the bitch. It is the role that you play – whether or not the guy or the girl whoever is doing the penetrating this is what matters
This is actually believe it or not this is actually all very relevant.
Very relative
Relevant not relative
E=mc ass fucked
Yeah but here’s the thing its like – if you are a guy and you tell the girl to penetrate you you’re still the dominant one, she is not the dominant one
I agree but what about
K if she were to be the one to initiate it  - you wanna talk about gender roles and domination, domination is a big part of gender roles and all that its all about who is dominant, who is ontop, who forces and who is the one to be the willing one to want it and who is the one who doesn’t want it, you go to a strip club, guys are the ones who want it
And who takes it
But women want it at these kinds of strip clubs
Yeah but they want to take it they don’t want to give it, they want to take it
But that’s what I’m saying you can’t really – when it comes to sex and like strip clubs and stuff like that and genders its like its really hard to say Its like a dominatrix will beat the fuck out of a guy but they will never have sex with them because they are giving they will never take it