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RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 9:56:50 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

jealousy is an emotion... just like love, anger and everything else we as humans feel... would you (generic you) dismiss one simply because they 'loved you'? my whole point in this thread was to find out why so many were so quick to say 'toss him/her' aside... without knowing where that particular emotion stemmed from.. it's easy to say 'oh hell just walk away'... sticking it out is the difficult part.

It's a throw-away society, angelic, don't you know? it's easier to toss than to rebuild.

Now, i understand there are some whacko's out there with serious psychological issues. i am not talking about that. i am speaking for the submissive who feels those twinges of pain and doesn't know how to get rid of them, and doesn't always deal with them very well. i used to feel jealous, although i refused to admit it. i was trained not to feel that way anymore. i was also trained how to handle concerns appropriately. Thankfully he had the wisdom, the patience (sometimes) and an intolerance for bullshit in order to be able to do that. Oh and his training wasn't to beat it out of me either. It was to develop my mind so i could see the futility in jealousy.

~ edited for typo ~

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 2/20/2006 9:58:38 PM >

(in reply to angelic)

Post #: 41

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:05:24 PM

DragonNphoenix

Posts: 617
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

jealousy is an emotion... just like love, anger and everything else we as humans feel... would you (generic you) dismiss one simply because they 'loved you'? my whole point in this thread was to find out why so many were so quick to say 'toss him/her' aside... without knowing where that particular emotion stemmed from.. it's easy to say 'oh hell just walk away'... sticking it out is the difficult part.

Okay... just one thing to say... "sticking it out is the difficult part"... first one must look at the relationship. If the Master is pushing the slave to provoke the jealousy, she might not be in a healthy relationship. There is a difference in sticking it out in a healthy relationship then in a non healthy one. If the relationship isnt healthy.. she should leave. A slave/submissive is not a doormat, if he is provoking the jealousy for his own pleasure then getting upset at her because if it, Release may be better for her in the long run.... (Sorry... had a very bad relationship where this type of behaivor was the norm. I would not recogmend staying in such a relationship (lifestyle or vanillia).))

1st Girl Phoenix

_____________________________

**Pain is just pleasure with a twist**

(in reply to angelic)

Post #: 42

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:05:52 PM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

Was trying to think of something to say about this part of the thread as well Angelic... but something was said earlier.. i can't get past... the word.. FLAW...

Flaw... another flaw... I too do not understand why because someone has 1 little flaw.. you would toss them to the side... instead of trying to "fix that so called flaw"... if fixable. Granted.. as SirKenin said.. got enough to do.. don't need no more.... does this one "flaw" stop you from having something... someone.. so good in ones life?...

Jealousy isn't a flaw... it is a symptom. Unfortunately, being a victim of the challenges that bring a person to respond with jealousy under certain situations -won't- help them to resolve the problem.

If I had someone who -genuinely- recognized his or her own jealousy issues and brought them to the table -themselves-, and asked for assistance in figuring out the source and seeing if it was resolveable (or who responded in like manner to being told that there was a jealousy issue that needed to be resolved), I'd work with them -- but that's what i do. On the other hand, my beloved doesn't have any particular background in dealing with the reasons why people respond in certain situations the way that they do... and dealing with someone's jealousy issues and the stress it puts on the relationship would -not- be her idea of a functional relationship. I concede her point, because I know she's right -- for her, it would just be -way- too much. This is why I'm the spiritual/emotional matriarch for our family, and she is the pragmatist.

I would sooner have someone say "I can't handle this and it's not working for me" and end the relationship than have them say "Ok, we'll figure it out..." and continue to try to maintain the situation that enables and incites the fears, insecurities and responses that are packaged as "jealousy", while the individual in question gets no real help (and where the relationship often dies out shortly from the stress anyway.)

Lady Zephyr

_____________________________

"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 43

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:07:52 PM

DragonNphoenix

Posts: 617
Joined: 8/2/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

jealousy is an emotion... just like love, anger and everything else we as humans feel... would you (generic you) dismiss one simply because they 'loved you'? my whole point in this thread was to find out why so many were so quick to say 'toss him/her' aside... without knowing where that particular emotion stemmed from.. it's easy to say 'oh hell just walk away'... sticking it out is the difficult part.

It's a throw-away society, angelic, don't you know? it's easier to toss than to rebuild.

Now, i understand there are some whacko's out there with serious psychological issues. i am not talking about that. i am speaking for the submissive who feels those twinges of pain and doesn't know how to get rid of them, and doesn't always deal with them very well. i used to feel jealous, although i refused to admit it. i was trained not to feel that way anymore. i was also trained how to handle concerns appropriately. Thankfully he had the wisdom, the patience (sometimes) and an intolerance for bullshit in order to be able to do that. Oh and his training wasn't to beat it out of me either. It was to develop my mind so i could see the futility in jealousy.

~ edited for typo ~

Okay... here is a the type of healthy relationship that I was talking about in my last post. He took the time to help her through the issues.. Bravo.

1st Girl Phoenix

_____________________________

**Pain is just pleasure with a twist**

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 44

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:18:27 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing

Jealousy isn't a flaw... it is a symptom. Unfortunately, being a victim of the challenges that bring a person to respond with jealousy under certain situations -won't- help them to resolve the problem.

Lady Zephyr

Oh I agree... it's not a flaw... I didn't say it was.. it was stated by someone else on 1st page of this thread... and that word kept nagging at me.. how could it be a flaw?... a damn flaw?... to me.. there's no emotions that are flaws.. there's a flaw in the table he made.. there's a flaw in the picture she painted... there's a flaw in a diamond... But there's no flaws in emotions... there's alot of things in emotions.. but FLAW.. isn't one of them.

Edited to add:.........But this is of course.. my own opinion on emotions and flaws... no everyones.

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 2/20/2006 10:20:02 PM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)

Post #: 45

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:20:44 PM

angelic

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
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Owned: yes we are a throw away society... sadly enough...

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to DragonNphoenix)

Post #: 46

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:21:26 PM

LadiesBladewing

Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
Now, i understand there are some whacko's out there with serious psychological issues. i am not talking about that. i am speaking for the submissive who feels those twinges of pain and doesn't know how to get rid of them, and doesn't always deal with them very well. i used to feel jealous, although i refused to admit it. i was trained not to feel that way anymore. i was also trained how to handle concerns appropriately. Thankfully he had the wisdom, the patience (sometimes) and an intolerance for bullshit in order to be able to do that. Oh and his training wasn't to beat it out of me either. It was to develop my mind so i could see the futility in jealousy.

~ edited for typo ~

It sounds to me like what you experienced wasn't what I would define as "jealousy". Most people don't realize that there is an inherent instability that comes early in a new relationship, while everyone involved gets their bearings. This instability can be uncomfortable -- like the feeling one gets when one's stomach climbs up into one's throat when riding a rollercoaster or one of the free-fall drops, except that it can last for months, until everyone is certain of their place in the dynamic (and then it will start up again, when the dynamic changes, or a person leaves or another is added). It happens in families when a new unmentionable is born (and not just to the other unmentionables -- dad is often one of the biggest sufferers of the side-effects of this destabilization).

The thing is -- this is -normal-. People can talk, watch, listen, and sort this one out. Jealousy can't be sorted out through talking about it with the people one is involved with, because there is an emotional/psychological blind spot so that, instead of acknowledging and resolving, the individual experiencing jealousy sees the problem as being external (someone else's fault) and interprets any mention of it as an attack -- further aggravating the sense of insecurity and hostility.

Most people don't believe that there should be any discord in a family, but that isn't reasonable. Any time that people are in close proximity, there -will- be some friction. In a healthy relationship, friction can be "oiled" with some words or behavior that will cool the situation off -- or it will ignite, and burn itself out until it can be safely managed... but when all is said and done, everyone will be able and willing to sort out the trouble, and there will be enough flexibility between them to come to some reasonable compromise. Disagreements in a relationship show that the people who are participating are still individuals -and- that they are still able to be truthful and direct in their communication with one another, even when they know it isn't going to be pleasant. It is a healthy expression of a dynamic relationship, and it seems to me that this, along with tne normal destabilization of a new member of the household being added, is what was going on in yours.

Lady Zephyr

< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 2/20/2006 10:23:57 PM >

_____________________________

"Should have", "could have", "would have" and "can't" may be the most dangerous phrases in the English language.
Bladewing Enclave

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 47

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:22:32 PM

angelic

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline

Owned: you have found one that is a keeper!!! and that is truly wonderful, but then again you were a keeper to begin with ;)

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to angelic)

Post #: 48

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:24:05 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing

Jealousy isn't a flaw... it is a symptom. Unfortunately, being a victim of the challenges that bring a person to respond with jealousy under certain situations -won't- help them to resolve the problem.

Lady Zephyr

Oh I agree... it's not a flaw... I didn't say it was.. it was stated by someone else on 1st page of this thread... and that word kept nagging at me.. how could it be a flaw?... a damn flaw?... to me.. there's no emotions that are flaws.. there's a flaw in the table he made.. there's a flaw in the picture she painted... there's a flaw in a diamond... But there's no flaws in emotions... there's alot of things in emotions.. but FLAW.. isn't one of them.

Actually, it was I who used the word flaw. But I did not say that jealousy was a flaw if you carefully read what I wrote.

quote:

If someone has the ability to make you (generic you) feel jealous...the character flaw is on your(generic your) end...not a result of any actions they have taken.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 49

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:26:13 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

Lady Zephyr i do see what you are saying, but in my case it was not a matter of simply talking it out. It was a year and a half of invested effort, which has proved to be well worth it. It was probably the only real "issue" in the relationship but because i was such a girl girl

in many other areas, it was an investment he chose to endeavor in.

It worked for us. He knew what to do with me. It was not easy for me, but he was (is) so good for me, i wanted to work to get past it.

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)

Post #: 50

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:27:52 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

LOL Mist.... I read your post.. never even seen the word flaw in there till just now going back and re-reading it.. I was refering to the way SirKenin stated it.. not you... sorry.

And I'm not saying that Sirkenin stated it wrong.. it's just seeing it.. for some reason.. the word kept nagging at me.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 51

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:28:49 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

LOL Mist.... I read your post.. never even seen the word flaw in there till just now going back and re-reading it.. I was refering to the way SirKenin stated it.. not you... sorry.

And I'm not saying that Sirkenin stated it wrong.. it's just seeing it.. for some reason.. the word kept nagging at me.

Sounds like you were flawed in your thinking. LOL

(sorry, couldn't resist)....

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 52

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:34:50 PM

angelic

Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
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personally for me... i have a jealous personality.. is it a flaw? absolutely...i have many of them thank goodness... am i insecure??? absolutely!!! does that make me less worthy or deserved to be tossed to the curb because of it? absolutely not!... i'm worth the effort!

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 53

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:34:51 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

LOL Mist.... I read your post.. never even seen the word flaw in there till just now going back and re-reading it.. I was refering to the way SirKenin stated it.. not you... sorry.

And I'm not saying that Sirkenin stated it wrong.. it's just seeing it.. for some reason.. the word kept nagging at me.

Sounds like you were flawed in your thinking. LOL

(sorry, couldn't resist)....

Yeah I was... but then again i'm good at that.

I seen another question earlier in this thread.... what if it is the Dom that is the jealous type?...

I'm too curious... as to if any others have had run across this problem... and how .. if at all.. it got worked out?... or was Dom tossed off to the side as well?

Edited to add..... personally for me... i have a jealous personality.. is it a flaw? absolutely...i have many of them thank goodness... am i insecure??? absolutely!!! does that make me less worthy or deserved to be tossed to the curb because of it? absolutely not!... i'm worth the effort

No Angelic.... you don't deserve to be tossed .......... does a Dog deserve to be tossed out because ones schedule is to busy to train the dog not to piss in the floor while you're at work or out shopping for the day? (NO not comparing you to a dog either Angelic... LOL)

But think about it.. one goes out.. buys a dog.. DOES NOT take the time needed to train said dog.. gets tired of rubbing nose and beating ass.. but still doesn't take the time to train... so throws Dog out....

Well jealousy to me works same way.... you see a submissive you desire.. she/he has a problem with jealousy... gonna toss sub out because you don't want to take time to deal.. train.. help them out grow the problem..... and possible lose years of love.. devotion.. friendship... service.. ?

again.. this is my OWN OPINION... and still not comparing you or anyone else to a Dog in terms of.... oh hell you know what''s i'm saying.... lmao

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 2/20/2006 10:43:48 PM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 54

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:45:55 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

LOL Mist.... I read your post.. never even seen the word flaw in there till just now going back and re-reading it.. I was refering to the way SirKenin stated it.. not you... sorry.

And I'm not saying that Sirkenin stated it wrong.. it's just seeing it.. for some reason.. the word kept nagging at me.

Sounds like you were flawed in your thinking. LOL

(sorry, couldn't resist)....

Yeah I was... but then again i'm good at that.

I seen another question earlier in this thread.... what if it is the Dom that is the jealous type?...

I'm too curious... as to if any others have had run across this problem... and how .. if at all.. it got worked out?... or was Dom tossed off to the side as well?

Yes, i have had that problem and it turned into borderline stalking/harrassment. It was an unfixable problem and it didn't work out.

As for my Master, he is not jealous per se, but keeps an eye out.

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 55

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:51:29 PM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic
if a submissive/slave is jealous they should be tossed aside?

Certainly not, though they should be severely disciplined and corrected. I allow for traces of base-level jealousy as it is an inescapable human trait, but I do not allow for it to be in great abundance in one who is serving me. Jealousy implies pride. It is the deeply humbled state I idealize.

(in reply to angelic)

Post #: 56

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:52:13 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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True: "Woof!"

Yes i see what you are saying. It boils down to preference. Some want "ready made subs," some are open to training to a point, and others enjoy training a submissive/slave to His/Her particular liking - in all areas. Is it wrong to have a particular preference? Well, no i suppose it isn't. i was "tossed out" by several because of my hang ups (i traveled with my own baggage, lol). Fortunately i crossed paths with someone who saw potential and wanted to invest in it.

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 57

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 10:54:58 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

personally for me... i have a jealous personality.. is it a flaw? absolutely...i have many of them thank goodness... am i insecure??? absolutely!!! does that make me less worthy or deserved to be tossed to the curb because of it? absolutely not!... i'm worth the effort!

Please don't misunderstand, I never said anything about insecurities making anyone less worthwhile of a person. What I said is that for me PERSONALLY...I am not willing to get involved with a person who has a jealous nature. Obviously, if I was in a committed long term relationship with someone who suddenly had a twinge...I would certainly work with them through that. I would not remain though if it became an issue that they were not actively working on and it was damaging to the relationship.

I have to ask you, seeing as you know that these are aspects of you and you are quite openly owning them...are you doing anything positive to try to change them....or are you just comfortable in having them? If you are comfortable in just having them and not trying to resolve them...do you think it's someone else's responsibility to deal with them or side step around them?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to angelic)

Post #: 58

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 11:02:25 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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erin once again you posed great questions. i want to clarify that in the posts i wrote about Master & i, we both had a desire to unload the baggage. i took the other posters for implying the same. i know many look to their Doms to "fix me" without having to do any of the work themselves but i didn't see anyone say that here. But it's a fair question.

As for me, i would never get away with not working. Like i mentioned earlier, He has an intolerance for bullshit. i learned that while opening the "bullshit bag" lol.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 59

RE: Jealousy - 2/20/2006 11:04:04 PM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

He has an intolerance for bullshit. i learned that while opening the "bullshit bag" lol.

lmao....sounds like a lesson well learned!!!

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 60

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