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RE: Here's My challenge - 3/22/2006 6:28:15 PM

incognitoinmass

Posts: 428
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline

quote:

Now, how many should we give Mr. Bush? Ollie Ollie in free at 10 for 20? At what point does a groundswell of dissatisfaction with our governmental policies, overtake our nationalistic pride and we say-- No More? Here I am........

Shit, now everbody is gonna start calling me an arch conservative, quoting such fundamental and unchangeble principles of which our country was founded upon, and if WE don't like 'em and WE don't agree with 'em, perhaps WE should haul our asses outta here.

One of the great things about our country is that no president has ever been elected unanimously. Shoot, 60-40 is considered a landslide. And yet, even though a leader not of our choosing may occupy the White House we don't take our ball and leave. We stay. We work to effect change through the next election cycle. That's how it works. Bush will be gone in a few years, and if the Democrats can somehow manage to snap out of a generation of electoral incompetence someone from their party might actually get their turn to run the ship of state.

Every few years we have the opportunity for "a groundswell of dissatisfaction" to throw the bums out. Make it happen.

In the meantime, you need to understand that you are operating in an echo chamber and quit presuming that just because you think you are the font of delivered wisdom that the rest of the population is on your bandwagon..

_____________________________

But if, baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!

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Post #: 41

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/22/2006 6:30:01 PM

DelightMachine

Posts: 652
Joined: 1/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

Some guy elsewhere wants to dispute whether or not the west fed Saddam is chemical weapons. Give me a fucking break

Who could that be?

You know what's worse -- some guy who thinks that was a reason not to go to war against Iraq. We go to war or don't go to war for other reasons.

Chaingang, you're quick to put others down, slow to do the actual heavy lifting of debate.

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Post #: 42

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/22/2006 6:33:47 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

And I thank YOU, brother for services rendered to our great country. I (as you well know) cannot for the life of me see anything you say in defence or disparagement of this country's current government as bad, I rather think more people would kill less people with a larger world view. And to you as well, I am so sorry I couldn't make the Barbie, but I am cooking on really trying to make something happen before we both go to our stones.

With love and affection to You and Yours.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 43

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/22/2006 6:39:03 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelightMachine
My point was about telling us who should and should not be president of the United States. I probably wasn't clear enough about that.

Actuall old son, I only get involved in discussions about who may or may not be a better man for the Whitehouse with a very few friends in the US on odd occasions and that even usually involves certain asoects of international policies and their effect, or about the state of the Military. What I do get active about is on the matter of urging people to become invoilved and to vote.. I understand the precious power of being able to vote for a Government. here we have a mandatory system so in theory at least an unpopular party or person is least likely to be voted in and no one can never say that they had no say. As far as the running of any country goes i tend to keep out of thiose things except where our lraders follow suit. In the US i have seen far toop mant areas of freedom being wittled away including the preasures placed on the Pagan Communities. This is echoed here because of a beaurocracy who follows the current US adminiatration like lap dogs and have opened the door for the same right wing Christian power groups to gain a foot hold here too. Soo yes I have a vested interest in all this..

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to DelightMachine)

Post #: 44

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/22/2006 6:44:37 PM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelightMachine

You are out of line. Way out of line. George Bush is our damn president and if you have a problem with him, you have a problem with us. It's THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA in the form of its government that acts around the world, not George Bush, so if you don't like this country's policies, feel free to criticize, to suggest, to damn, praise or make war on us, but the guy who sits in the Oval Office is for US to decide. We in America know the conditions here, and unless you've done a lot of studying of my country's internal conditions, it AIN'T YOUR GODDAM BUSINESS.

So now others aren't allowed their opinions? Interesting. So silence everyone outside of our country about what they think of the US? They are not dictating politics here, they aren't voting here. If someone has issue with our government that automatically means they have a personal issue with US citizens? While you are entitled to your view, I believe you are off base by telling him to be silent. That is what these message boards are for... opinions, discourse, debate.

I wonder if he expressed the same allegiance to Jimmy Carter or George Bush?

I've read the Constitution and I haven't found any part of it that implies that we have an Imperial President. Not even the military, which looks to the president as its commander in chief swears allegiance to him specifically. The oath is to the Constitution, a Constitution whose primary amendment guaranteed the freedom to disagree as strongly as one wishes with, not only the chief executive or the government, but with the entire population should one wish.

The kind of absolute loyalty called for here is most often present in governments that enforce their decrees with torture, secret prisons and secret police.

Hmmmm.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to Gauge)

Post #: 45

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/22/2006 6:53:34 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

In the meantime, you need to understand that you are operating in an echo chamber and quit presuming that just because you think you are the font of delivered wisdom that the rest of the population is on your bandwagon..

I was gonna say more but will keep my remarks rather brief and to one or two salient points.

I like to hear myself talk, above all else. In fact I sing in the shower, just for the echo.
YOU
I presume not much of nothing. I also will tell you that I don't give a good goddamn fuck what you think.

If I chose to be the font of all goddamn wisdom, I shall do so. I do not care about the rest of the populations opinion, either.

I am here, I am a man and I stand here.

Weren't you the guy who's total font of wisdom encompassed the correct spelling of moron?
Or, what the fuck is your story?

You may take note that no great horde of zealots is running to wipe your ass either, pal.

Your life will be far merrier to stay incognito.

Ron.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to incognitoinmass)

Post #: 46

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/22/2006 7:04:14 PM

DelightMachine

Posts: 652
Joined: 1/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Actuall old son, I only get involved in discussions about who may or may not be a better man for the Whitehouse with a very few friends in the US on odd occasions and that even usually involves certain asoects of international policies and their effect, or about the state of the Military.

Well, I have a much smaller problem with that. My problem was what you said on the message board.

quote:

What I do get active about is on the matter of urging people to become invoilved and to vote.. I understand the precious power of being able to vote for a Government. here we have a mandatory system so in theory at least an unpopular party or person is least likely to be voted in and no one can never say that they had no say. As far as the running of any country goes i tend to keep out of thiose things except where our lraders follow suit. In the US i have seen far toop mant areas of freedom being wittled away including the preasures placed on the Pagan Communities. This is echoed here because of a beaurocracy who follows the current US adminiatration like lap dogs and have opened the door for the same right wing Christian power groups to gain a foot hold here too. Soo yes I have a vested interest in all this..

Well, a lot depends on what Bush administration policies you're talking about. I can't think of any areas where the Bush administration has seriously affected anything Pagan communities were doing here. State and local governments seem to be the ones that sometimes come into conflict with alternative lifestyles, but I don't know where the federal government comes into this. Maybe I'm not well enough informed.

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I'd rather be in
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(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 47

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/22/2006 7:43:28 PM

Vancouver_cinful

Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LokisBrat

popcorn anyone?

brat

Am I too late for the popcorn? Damn, I hate when I miss the popcorn!!

Cin

_____________________________

Cin

quote:

My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to LokisBrat)

Post #: 48

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/22/2006 7:49:04 PM

Vancouver_cinful

Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
The kind of absolute loyalty called for here is most often present in governments that enforce their decrees with torture, secret prisons and secret police.

Hmmmm.

Was that Hmmm...or Mmmmm, John??

Cin <~ thinks there's finally fodder for fantasy in this post!

_____________________________

Cin

quote:

My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 49

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/22/2006 7:56:46 PM

DelightMachine

Posts: 652
Joined: 1/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
I wonder if he expressed the same allegiance to Jimmy Carter or George Bush?

If John Warren means me, then yes, I did. Even with Bill Clinton. We have one president at a time. I don't want help from abroad in getting one in office or out of it. I think the fundamental reason has to do with patriotism -- people who live inside our country, who are citizens of our country are the ones who are likely to love it most, and I trust them most to make that decision for the future of my country. That means a lot to me. That's why I get offended by foreigners butting in.

quote:

I've read the Constitution and I haven't found any part of it that implies that we have an Imperial President. Not even the military, which looks to the president as its commander in chief swears allegiance to him specifically.

The oath is to the Constitution, a Constitution whose primary amendment guaranteed the freedom to disagree as strongly as one wishes with, not only the chief executive or the government, but with the entire population should one wish.

The kind of absolute loyalty called for here is most often present in governments that enforce their decrees with torture, secret prisons and secret police.

Hmmmm.

Look what John Warren has done here. His post is fundamentally at odds with the truth and a sly mischaracterizing of my position.

John Warren has the nerve to characterize my position as being against freedom.

He knows, or should know, that I've specifically stated several times that that is not my position.

First, I said it in my original post at 4:08 p.m.:
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=300360
"Feel free to criticize him and by extension us, but we'll elect who we damn well please in our own damn way and for our own damn reasons,"

Second, I said it in Post 31:
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=300426
"Obviously I'm not proposing that anybody be censored, obviously I'm saying people should be reluctant to tell citizens of other countries who should lead them."

Third, I said it in Post 36:
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=300476
"It's not opinions I'm criticizing here -- in fact, I specifically said that. I'm saying it's offensive to tell us who should be running our country. Criticizing this or that Bush policy or opinion or even saying the guy is a jerk is not what I'm offended at. Again, what's offensive is telling us who should run our country."

I said all this before John Warren started saying I was against freedom of speech and in favor of "absolute loyalty." He said that in Post 45. If he didn't read any of my many statements saying just the opposite, then he was completely irresponsible. If he read them and then decided to say this, he was lying.

Then the icing on the cake is associating me with "The kind of absolute loyalty ... most often present in governments that enforce their decrees with torture, secret prisons and secret police."

Except of course that I believe in freedom of speech and said so. Is it fair to twist some statement made early on in a way that's derogatory to the person who said it when later statements from the same person make clear that he believes just the opposite?

Is this how John Warren engages in debate?

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I'd rather be in
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(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 50

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/22/2006 8:23:25 PM

DelightMachine

Posts: 652
Joined: 1/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelightMachine

... if you don't like this country's policies, feel free to criticize, to suggest, to damn, praise or make war on us, but the guy who sits in the Oval Office is for US to decide.

So now others aren't allowed their opinions? Interesting. So silence everyone outside of our country about what they think of the US?

Emphasis added.

Gauge, I'm rereading your post and wondering how you could write those words supposedly characterizing my position and post them just a couple of inches below my words, which you quote, that say EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

Why did you do that?

Hey stef, maybe you want to suggest to Gauge that he calm down. We don't want him to get a goddam aneurism.

(edited for punctuation)

< Message edited by DelightMachine -- 3/22/2006 8:27:57 PM >

_____________________________

I'd rather be in
Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg

(in reply to Gauge)

Post #: 51

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/22/2006 10:42:10 PM

Gauge

Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelightMachine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelightMachine

... if you don't like this country's policies, feel free to criticize, to suggest, to damn, praise or make war on us, but the guy who sits in the Oval Office is for US to decide.

So now others aren't allowed their opinions? Interesting. So silence everyone outside of our country about what they think of the US?

Emphasis added.

Gauge, I'm rereading your post and wondering how you could write those words supposedly characterizing my position and post them just a couple of inches below my words, which you quote, that say EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

Why did you do that?

Hey stef, maybe you want to suggest to Gauge that he calm down. We don't want him to get a goddam aneurism.

(edited for punctuation)

First of all I will not be drawn into a futile pissing contest where you are intent on trying to bait me.

I stand by what I wrote. I said what I did because you basically told the man that he had no business voicing his opinion about who should lead this country. If I have misunderstood then I have misunderstood, but I have reread your posts and every post leading up to this one and it would seem that you are consistant. Telling someone that they should... let me see how you put this...

quote:

Feel free to criticize him and by extension us, but we'll elect who we damn well please in our own damn way and for our own damn reasons, and quite frankly, it's none of your damn business who we elect. You are out of line. Way out of line.

quote:

We in America know the conditions here, and unless you've done a lot of studying of my country's internal conditions, it AIN'T YOUR GODDAM BUSINESS.

quote:

Just because someone CAN voice an opinion doesn't mean that they SHOULD.

Sounds a lot like he has no right to an opinion as to who runs our country. You can say what you want in defense but unless you clarify your own words, it is clearly implied.
You are trying to steer the way the debate is going and it can't be done by telling someone they are not entitled to their opinion. They have a right to their opinion and a right to voice it. You have no grounds to silence anyone's voice.

Funny that you agreed with me and then suddenly changed your mind.

By the way... I am quite calm, thanks for your concern.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to DelightMachine)

Post #: 52

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/22/2006 11:08:59 PM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelightMachine
Except of course that I believe in freedom of speech and said so. Is it fair to twist some statement made early on in a way that's derogatory to the person who said it when later statements from the same person make clear that he believes just the opposite?

Sorry, I can't spend my time trying to keep track of every post you make. I generally don't read your posts in any case. If you look carefully, you'll notice it was clear I was engaging in a dialogue with Gauge in which he quoted a segment of a post you had made earlier, said post reading like a call for repression. I put in quotes so that would be obvious to even the most casual reader.

You really aren't significant enough for me to make the effort.

< Message edited by JohnWarren -- 3/22/2006 11:16:58 PM >

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

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Post #: 53

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/22/2006 11:21:04 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelightMachine

quote:

Actuall old son, I only get involved in discussions about who may or may not be a better man for the Whitehouse with a very few friends in the US on odd occasions and that even usually involves certain asoects of international policies and their effect, or about the state of the Military.

Well, I have a much smaller problem with that. My problem was what you said on the message board.

So you have a problem with what I have said on the message board ehhh. Are you aware that what I posted originally, is mild to what others posted in other threads.... No what you got pissy about was me pushing Ron forward to run for President.. To start with you don't know us and I'll bloody well make all the suggestions I want as far as who I think the next President should be....Do you seriously believe that the powers that be will take notice of me?? Stone the bloody crows what tree or dunny have you been hiding in???? Dont like my comments well get a grip and move on but don't immagine that you will silence or any of the others you are trying to do character assinations on.. If you wanted to become CM's Arsewipe for 2006, you have made a great start..... Asd for me i work on the principle in your specific case: If it acts like a Shitforbrains Clusterfuck, and it talks like a Shitforbrains Clusterfuck, then it probably is a Shitforbrains Clusterfuck,

< Message edited by IronBear -- 3/22/2006 11:22:13 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to DelightMachine)

Post #: 54

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/23/2006 12:06:02 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
The kind of absolute loyalty called for here is most often present in governments that enforce their decrees with torture, secret prisons and secret police.

Hmmmm.

Was that Hmmm...or Mmmmm, John??

Cin <~ thinks there's finally fodder for fantasy in this post!

......*burst out laughing..........*

Level, who should be sleeping instead of giggling

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)

Post #: 55

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/23/2006 5:41:05 AM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

I'll preface my post by saying that I crawled around in the sand and mud for four years for the Marines during the back-end of Iran hostage crisis.

The vivid memories of being cold and filthy-dirty, and only being able to take a ''sponge bath'' from what little water the steel ''pot'' of my M-1 helmet would hold while on two week field training exersise at Camp Wilson, Twentynine Palms, California, still rings true - There's no such thing as field showers in the ''theater''.

With that said, let me get to the ''jest'' of my post. Like Merc, I am also a two time voter for Bush{probably for a whole lota different reasons though} and a lifelong Republican party member. I'd glady post my frayed voter registration cards here with a ''white-outed'' name and county if they'd let me. But in the last few years I have really opened my eyes and now despise both parties.

It's my view, that an overwhelming majority of the American voting bloc is caught up, trapped, and being pitted against each other in many different types of competing loyalty scenarios that exist in what I consider to be a phony paradigm. White is black, black is white. Red is yellow, yellow is red.The left is right, the right is left, etc. - I know some will agree, but at the same time, you didn't sign up for that, did ya?

I submit to each of you, study both parties and their actions..... Both parties are merely nuanced versions of each other, in which case the opposites mirror the other.

While a fair percentage of the membership in each of the parties definitely identifies with it's very foundation and core values, the ruling elite in each party are neither Democrat nor Republican, but instead are globalists and of a ''global'' mindset - I challenge anyone here who disagrees, to do their homework and debate that facet - Oh, and keep in mind, the exact opposite of globalismn doesn't equate to isolationism.

Now.... globalismn means many different things to as many different people. But, globalismn as defined by what's currently transpiring now, equates to nothing more than taking the raw materials out of a first world country, like the United States, and taking them down to a third world country and exploiting their cheap labor to produce saleable goods so they can be brought back up here to be re-sold back in the United States.

Now who benefits from that? Well... I guess you could say in the short run, consumers benefit, but when it comes to a point where that first world country doesn't produce very many goods for export anymore, eventually it's people lose their earning capacity and purchasing power, hence taking a step down towards that third world country, all the while the elites and major stock holders in these corporations continue to make gobs of money -- It essentially boils down to a greater separation of classes, with the gap growing ever wider.

One of the other implications and eventual outcomes of globalismn, is that it creates a unipolar world, merging people from everywhere through open borders and the free flow of immigration, hence destroying whole nations and their cultural heritage - In other words, in the future, America is no longer America and transformed into some kind of consortium that includes the likes of {hypothetical} Canada, Mexico, Central America, etc.,etc. If anyone doubts this, I suggest you venture down to certain parts of Southern California and Southern Arizona - And remember, their is no assimilation, only enclavement - Check for yourselves.

So, when you read a post of mine, where you see me attacking what you believe to be your very foundation and/or core values, as it relates to political parties, know that what I'm actually doing is attacking the imposter who is seeking to ruin the autonomy and cultural heritage of this great country.

- The Ranger

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 3/23/2006 5:52:55 AM >

_____________________________

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-General George S. Patton

(in reply to JimandAnn)

Post #: 56

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/23/2006 9:29:05 AM

Moloch

Posts: 1090
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline

I agree with you on that, I always refered to Voting for Democrat and Republican as choosing to either get it in the ass or the mouth either way you still getting screwd.

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 57

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/23/2006 11:19:11 AM

Chaingang

Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline

UtopianRanger:

I entirely agree with you.

But when push comes to shove I vote Democrat only because I adamantly oppose the Republican view on the issue of choice - but hell, if there ever was a nearly meaningless political football the abortion issue would be it. It's a sideshow, completely. Smoke and mirrors for the fundies...

BTW, I try to support local businesses and try to buy "Made in America" because shit like that matters to me. It's not that I have anything against the Japanese, East Indian, Chinese, or Mexican peoples in those other countries; it's that for me I believe in keeping the money-chain close to home.

If I pay the exterminator locally, and he buys goods locally, and those businesses hire me in turn for my services - we neighbors are all feeding each other, which to me is as it should be.

If by contrast I buy a Japanese stereo, that money might make a local profit but it more likely makes a national retailer some cash that ultimate goes back to Japan for the manufacturing being done there. And while I have nothing against the Japanese people I just don't care about them the same way I do a neighbor that needs my business instead. I was going to buy some new Grado headphones when I discovered they are no longer American made! So I am making do with my old ones for now, I just replaced the ear cushions for $10. ::sigh::

It's getting harder and harder to buy locally and American made. But I sure as hell don't buy at Walmart where everything is made in China under labor conditions I cannot support.

Buy American! (If you are american; if not, be patriotic with how you spend your money too.)

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 58

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/23/2006 1:06:41 PM

incognitoinmass

Posts: 428
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline

That's good. You need to vote. Not just with your ballot but with your wallet. There are lots of ways to effect change. You find ones that support your world view.

_____________________________

But if, baby, I'm the bottom,
You're the top!

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 59

RE: Here's My challenge - 3/23/2006 2:56:24 PM

DelightMachine

Posts: 652
Joined: 1/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
First of all I will not be drawn into a futile pissing contest where you are intent on trying to bait me.

Actually I'm not trying to bait you. But I could turn it around and say you were trying to bait me by describing what I said in pretty much the opposite way from the way I meant them. Maybe we should just call it debate.

quote:

I stand by what I wrote. I said what I did because you basically told the man that he had no business voicing his opinion about who should lead this country. If I have misunderstood then I have misunderstood, but I have reread your posts and every post leading up to this one and it would seem that you are consistant. Telling someone that they should... let me see how you put this...

quote:

Feel free to criticize him and by extension us, but we'll elect who we damn well please in our own damn way and for our own damn reasons, and quite frankly, it's none of your damn business who we elect. You are out of line. Way out of line.

quote:

We in America know the conditions here, and unless you've done a lot of studying of my country's internal conditions, it AIN'T YOUR GODDAM BUSINESS.

quote:

Just because someone CAN voice an opinion doesn't mean that they SHOULD.

Sounds a lot like he has no right to an opinion as to who runs our country. You can say what you want in defense but unless you clarify your own words, it is clearly implied.
You are trying to steer the way the debate is going and it can't be done by telling someone they are not entitled to their opinion. They have a right to their opinion and a right to voice it. You have no grounds to silence anyone's voice.

Gauge, I was trying to clarify my own words in my later posts, but let me try here again. I think you're an intelligent guy (no sarcasm intended) and you can follow this: There's a difference between trying "to silence" someone or "telling someone they are not entitled to their opinion" or declaring they have "no right" to their opinion and saying someone shouldn't say something because it's not their place, because it's none of their business or because it's rude or pointless or -- well there could be hundreds of different reasons. I find it offensive in this case.

That means I disagree with what he did. It doesn't stop him from saying it or take his rights away. I didn't even say he couldn't have his own opinion. To say "he had no business voicing his opinion about who should run this country" is an accurate statement on your part, but don't you see it's different from the other statements?
Statements like: "So now others aren't allowed their opinions? Interesting. So silence everyone outside of our country about what they think of the US?"

If I said you had no business telling my sister that her pink tutu was ugly, it doesn't mean you don't have a right to hold your opinion or no right to state your opinion somewhere else. It means you were out of place to tell her, rude to tell her. This isn't exactly the same because he wasn't being rude, but in both cases there's a distinction.

If you're a decent person you'll realize that my objection doesn't mean I'm against free speech. If you're a decent person, you'll acknowledge that because it's insulting and it's a lie. Your call.

quote:

Funny that you agreed with me and then suddenly changed your mind.

I showed respect for your opinion and reconsidered my own. You're going to hold that against me?

_____________________________

I'd rather be in
Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg

(in reply to Gauge)

Post #: 60

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