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ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

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ORIGINAL: AliceMajesty
...Feminism isn't about making women rule everything, it's not about unfair advantages or man-hate. It's simply about leveling the playing field and make sure everyone has the same chances regardless of gender.

What does the gay rights movement do for straight people? Nothing, because that's not the point.
What does honest charity organizations do for rich and healthy people? Nothing, that's not the point.
What did the black rights movement do for whites? Nothing, that's not the point.
What does feminism do for men? Nothing, that's not the point.

I'm gonna play my starry-eyed idealism card here. What they do is make the world a fairer place. (At least when they're doing it right.) That's better for everyone, not just the disadvantaged.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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Yes, kids, this is what passes for feminism these days.

No HW. The insane and inane rant you posted is not "what passes for feminism these days". It is what passes as an insane and inane rant. It appears to be the personal blog of the poor troubled soul that wrote it and that's about all it will ever be. About as representative of feminism as WBC is of Christianity, or Al Quada is of Islam.

If people are really interested in what "what passes for feminism these days", there's a mountain of literature available for any one who wants to find out. Any decent bookshop will have a section devoted to feminism or womens' issues. That is where you or any one else genuinely interested can look and find a representative sample of "what passes for feminism these days".

Happy browsing!

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I cant seem to find her name, Hill.... Not doubting you, just curious as to who the writer is since she gives lectures.

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I cant seem to find her name, Hill.... Not doubting you, just curious as to who the writer is since she gives lectures.

I followed her other writings. She writes under a pseudonym (obviously to keep from being murdered by EVULLL MENZ)

In all seriousness, if everything she writes were switched genderwise, it would be classified as hate speech.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Hill provided a link to the essay whence he quoted:

http://users.livejournal.com/_allecto_/34718.html

I've looked there and can't find the author's real name either.

All this raises an interesting question: Have we defined what we mean by "contemporary feminism"?

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Well, I'm so happy that you're the end all-be all of what is feminism.

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ORIGINAL: leonine
I could claim to be a lecturer and writer on BDSM, and maybe someone would be dumb enough to quote me as proof that all BDSMers are crazy humourless fanatics, but that wouldn't make it true.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

FR~

I think the whole question is bizarrely phrased and amounts to a misnomer and oxymoron.

It's like asking what do plumbers do for roofers.

Feminism is all about women and what they can do for women in general.
It has nothing to do with men at all other than the inequality in most areas of life.

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ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

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trying to achieve equality between women and men

It can't do that when it totally ignores men's issues.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Well, I'm so happy that you're the end all-be all of what is feminism.

Seriously, HW, it really is the only way to go with definitions when it comes to political world views. My own view of what feminism - that feminism is about equality and freedom for women - conforms to the vast majority of definitions I've ever found. It trumps the definition of those who are hostile to feminism, of course - but it also trumps that of self-proclaimed feminists, even if they're female.

Sticking to that definition enables me to trash the anti-feminist propagandists - of which there have always been many - but it also allows me to trash those women who've simply tried to give their own selfishness and/or, occasionally, their own nuttiness, a reasoned and cogent veneer. Of course you get such women now and then because women are people and people are apt to put an ostensibly reasoned and balanced spin on their selfishness and nuttiness. (And, if you've never done it, you've no idea what fun it can be to watch some looney man-bashing woman's mouth open and close in shock when you tell her - confidently, because you know your stuff - that she's not actually a feminist at all.)

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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Yes, kids, this is what passes for feminism these days.

No HW. The insane and inane rant you posted is not "what passes for feminism these days". It is what passes as an insane and inane rant. It appears to be the personal blog of the poor troubled soul that wrote it and that's about all it will ever be. About as representative of feminism as WBC is of Christianity, or Al Quada is of Islam.

If people are really interested in what "what passes for feminism these days", there's a mountain of literature available for any one who wants to find out. Any decent bookshop will have a section devoted to feminism or womens' issues. That is where you or any one else genuinely interested can look and find a representative sample of "what passes for feminism these days".

Happy browsing!

Well, I'm so happy that you're the end all-be all of what is feminism.

The person who wrote that little crazy blog has hosted multi day conferences down on your part of the world.
Now if one is hosting 3 day conferences, I'd assume they aren't exactly fringe.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

On a kink site, I dont see how it would be the prevalent attitude. Sure, we have dommes who are into female superiority. But we also have female submissives/slaves who are quite happy with their dominated lives, to whatever extent they are controlled/mastered/guided/ect.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

Yes, kids, this is what passes for feminism these days.

No HW. The insane and inane rant you posted is not "what passes for feminism these days". It is what passes as an insane and inane rant. It appears to be the personal blog of the poor troubled soul that wrote it and that's about all it will ever be. About as representative of feminism as WBC is of Christianity, or Al Quada is of Islam.

If people are really interested in what "what passes for feminism these days", there's a mountain of literature available for any one who wants to find out. Any decent bookshop will have a section devoted to feminism or womens' issues. That is where you or any one else genuinely interested can look and find a representative sample of "what passes for feminism these days".

Happy browsing!

Well, I'm so happy that you're the end all-be all of what is feminism.

The person who wrote that little crazy blog has hosted multi day conferences down on your part of the world.
Now if one is hosting 3 day conferences, I'd assume they aren't exactly fringe.

Sorry HW your assumption is 100% wrong in this instance. You really ought to know better.

While neither HW nor anyone else has yet succeeded in putting a name to HW's source, her political stance is not in doubt. The mysterious anonymous self-identifies with 'radical feminism', aka lesbian separatism. This is the most extreme and militant of all streams of feminism, known for its ideological rigidity.

It is a fringe element, which achieved a little influence within the feminist movement in the 70s, and has been in sharp decline ever since. Nowadays, almost every feminist I know regards it as an embarrassing historical hangover from the ideological excesses of that era. Even within the lesbian community, it is largely irrelevant. I'd be greatly surprised if its numbers constitute more than a fraction of 1% of feminists. As I stated above, it's as representative of feminism as Fred Phelps and WBC are of mainstream Christianity, or as Al Quada's views and behaviour are of Islam .

However, this tiny, inconsequential and rather nutty stream of feminism is a tabloid media darling. The gutter press loves it for its blind adherence to outdated ideology and uncompromising hostility towards anything masculine, regularly labeling the most extreme of its views as "feminist". For the same reasons, opponents of feminism also love this group and seize upon it as examples of "feminism gone mad".

It is at best misleading and at worst deliberately deceptive to present views emanating from this microscopic group of has-beens as representative of the broad feminist movement.

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

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ORIGINAL: thezeppo

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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Well, I don't know if that's true...

Some isnt all.

I think that's the key point in this thread. Doubtlessly some feminists are as Nick describes, but for the argument to be more compelling I would want to see evidence that this was the prevailing voice in feminism. Maybe I missed it in reading the two threads all in one go, but I don't think that evidence has been produced here.

It's an old tactic, actually. Within any ideology or school of thought, it's relatively easy to find those who are on the fringe.

It's like in football, when sizing up the defensive line, you might try plays that would exploit whatever weaknesses or holes you might find. Similarly, the goofball fringe in an ideological group would be the weak link which the opposition can then attack.

I'm not sure if there even is a prevailing voice in feminism, but I think in evaluating any group, one has to discern their ability to "police their own," so to speak. Do they openly acknowledge their weak links? Are they willing to criticize and dissociate themselves from their weak links? Or do they refrain from doing so in the belief that they must show solidarity no matter what?

Sometimes, it might be wiser to make a tactical concession regarding the weaknesses of a position, in order to move past that and concentrate more on the strengths. Some people seem reluctant to do that as they see it as a sign of weakness, thinking that the best defense is a good offense. Sometimes, that may be the case, but if overused, it can be seen as disingenuous and arrogant.