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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 3:14:45 PM   
metamorfosis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS
I find it amusing (and frustrating) when a woman who has gone to college, gotten a degree, owns her own business, drives a car, dresses as she pleases, buys what she pleases with her own money, has her own bank accounts, and owns her own house stands there telling Me, "I'm not a feminist, I don't believe in it."

WTF?


WTF was also my sentiments upon reading this, but for a very different reason. Why would you expect a woman who has done those things to identify herself as a "feminist" rather than simply as a "woman"? Do you think it's that extraordinary for a woman to have a degree, own a car, bank account, and/or house, and have the freedom to spend her own money? Where do you live that women have any real fear of not being able to do those things because of their gender? No, this isn't the 17th century. It's not productive to represent those kinds of issues as ongoing concerns for women.

quote:

Feminism is not FemDOM, but apparently people have become confused. I think that's where part of the problem lies and why "opponants" get so hot under the collar about the word "Feminist".


I agree, and would add that a number of feminists themselves are guilty of confusing the two.

< Message edited by metamorfosis -- 9/11/2013 3:16:58 PM >

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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 3:18:21 PM   
naughtynick81


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quote:

Why would you expect a woman who has done those things to identify herself as a "feminist" rather than simply as a "woman"?


I didn't bother going there.

But a fast response; a woman is not truly a strong woman in my books if she feels that she needs to use feminism as a crutch to make it in life.

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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 3:21:19 PM   
metamorfosis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81
quote:

Why would you expect a woman who has done those things to identify herself as a "feminist" rather than simply as a "woman"?


I didn't bother going there.

But a fast response; a woman is not truly a strong woman in my books if she feels that she needs to use feminism as a crutch to make it in life.


I would encourage you to participate on the men's issues thread, or the follow up discussion that tazzy is planning.

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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 4:20:18 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

The dictionary meaning of feminism is convenient for people who want to claim feminism is really about equality. But actions speak louder than words. What feminists do is what feminism is.


God, Nick, you're tying yourself in knots. How do you know how to recognise 'a feminist' and judge his/her actions unless you have some prior definition of what a feminist is?






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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 4:30:54 PM   
naughtynick81


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quote:

How do you know how to recognise 'a feminist' and judge his/her actions unless you have some prior definition of what a feminist is?


So these women which I am about to link in a video are not feminists?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2KPeMcYsuc

It appears they have a pretty big crowd happening there considering that people claim it's only some feminists who have such attitudes. Also, if feminism is against this type of behaviour, where are the feminists criticising it? Where are the feminist leaders condemning such behaviour?

Guess what's one of the most common phrases within the feminist movement? "what about teh menz"

This also indicates what respect they have for men's rights.

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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 4:38:35 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81
The dictionary meaning of feminism is convenient for people who want to claim feminism is really about equality. But actions speak louder than words. What feminists do is what feminism is.

God, Nick, you're tying yourself in knots. How do you know how to recognise 'a feminist' and judge his/her actions unless you have some prior definition of what a feminist is?

I agree with Nick. I don't give a rats ass what it says in some dictionary somewhere nor do I care what women's studies professors think on the matter. What I care about is the reality of things. I'll let the ivory tower types live in theory land.

To answer your question, why would I need a baseline? All I need to is note the various ways that banner is waved and make a decision about whether or not I want to line up under it. As it sits right now, I do not. I can easily understand why some women do not either... particularly mothers with male children.

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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 4:41:33 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

I don't give a rats ass what it says in some dictionary somewhere nor do I care what women's studies professors think on the matter. What I care about is the reality of things.

How are you determining what's the "reality" of things?

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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 4:46:25 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
To answer your question, why would I need a baseline? All I need to is note the various ways that banner is waved and make a decision about whether or not I want to line up under it. As it sits right now, I do not. I can easily understand why some women do not either... particularly mothers with male children.


You've either missed the point, Jeff, or you're avoiding it on purpose. You *do* need to know what feminism is before you can identify a feminist and say whether, and why, you like him/her, or not. That's just brilliantly simple logic and I can see no way in which you can avoid it.

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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 4:51:44 PM   
naughtynick81


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quote:

You've either missed the point, Jeff, or you're avoiding it on purpose. You *do* need to know what feminism is before you can identify a feminist and say whether, and why, you like him/her, or not. That's just brilliantly simple logic and I can see no way in which you can avoid it.


Go in any feminist forum, feminist site, feminist space, and start talking about male issues.

Get back to us about what reactions you get from the majority of feminists in there. You will most likely be banned within minutes and/or abused. It results to that you don't have a right to complain because you're a privileged male or a privileged white male.

Is this how you want feminists to appear? Well try telling them to change as this is the exact attitude you will get from nearly any feminist space.


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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 5:07:00 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

Go in any feminist forum, feminist site, feminist space, and start talking about male issues.

Get back to us about what reactions you get from the majority of feminists in there. You will most likely be banned within minutes and/or abused. It results to that you don't have a right to complain because you're a privileged male or a privileged white male.


I'll get back to you now, then, because I've already done this, and many times over.

Good reactions, and helpful ones, too - because I've never approached feminists as a pissant feminist-hater who brandishes his prejudices in big letters on a flag in front of him.

Who'd have thought it, eh? All you need to do is turn up saying, 'Look, could you help me?' to a bunch of people and, for the simple reason that you've forgotten to wear your teeshirt that says on it 'I hate and despise people like you, and support your biggest enemies' . . . and they actually do help you.

I know, it contradicts common sense, doesn't it?

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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 6:07:32 PM   
naughtynick81


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A great piece for the feminist lovers to read. Oh I'm forgetting, almighty feminism is perfect, how dare people claim it has faults!

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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 6:17:44 PM   
Lucylastic


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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 6:20:11 PM   
naughtynick81


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Status: offline 		Is that what feminism is all about, Lucy?

If there was nothing to complain about, what purpose would feminism have?

Gotta larf.

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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 8:09:58 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
You've either missed the point, Jeff, or you're avoiding it on purpose. You *do* need to know what feminism is before you can identify a feminist and say whether, and why, you like him/her, or not. That's just brilliantly simple logic and I can see no way in which you can avoid it.

Well, either I'm stupid or your myopic. Not everyone lives in the land of definitions and theories and whatnot. As I often say, I like to deal in that which is. What possible use could it be for me to know what feminism "is" on the pages of a textbook? By that measure I oughta also believe in intelligent design were I in the right state. There's a quote that comes to mind:

The map is not the terrain

But here, if it makes you happy, I like your theoretical feminism.

edited to add:
No, I'm not being deliberately stupid and you oughta know me well enough by now to know that. So here's what I think you are saying.

There is a definition of feminism. Those people out there who conform to that definition are feminists. People who do not, are not, no matter what banner they wave.

In that same vein it is not the definition that I object to nor do I object to the times when that definition is instantiated in real life. But the banner itself has become corrupted and if feminists don't like that then they have some self-policing to do. I won't support "feminist" groups because I have no idea what mix of "good/bad feminist" they are. I will, however, support individual causes and individual efforts if they align with the definitions I suspect are in your head. Yeah, I like equality. I like people being able to achieve their potential and I find artificial limitations to that ... inefficient if nothing else. I also dislike shoe-horning people into tiny little boxes and expecting them to conform.

< Message edited by JeffBC -- 9/11/2013 8:19:38 PM >

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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 8:17:11 PM   
Charles6682


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Status: offline 		Those are the reason's I support Equality for ALL, period. This is a Human Right's issue. What's that old saying about not speaking up for other's, until there is no one around to speak for me, if the time is ever needed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

You do realize the name of the thread is a complete oxymoron right? Feminism is not something for men, it's like asking what does gay rights do for straight people.


I don't think this is entirely true. Otherwise men would have no reason to support feminism and straight people wouldn't have any reason to support gay rights.

There is an answer to the OP's question, though: The reason why we support equality for all is because we also want to be treated as equals. We support human rights because we want to protect our rights, too, since we're also human.

We get something for sticking by and living up to our stated principles, such as equality and human rights.

Also, there are some of us who actually know some women and gays in real life, and since we care about them as people, their rights and well-being are important to us.




< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 9/11/2013 8:18:56 PM >

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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/11/2013 8:21:10 PM   
JeffBC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682
I don't think this is entirely true. Otherwise men would have no reason to support feminism and straight people wouldn't have any reason to support gay rights.

Huh... wha?????

How about I support gay rights and women's rights (where balanced) because the alternative offends me. I don't need any direct personal gain beyond that.

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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/12/2013 2:24:59 AM   
Charles6682


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Status: offline 		Ever hear the quote "First They Came"? As the old saying goes. "First they came for the communists and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the socialists and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me".

I think the saying speak's for itself. Just take out any word like socialist or unionist and insert any group of people you want. The point is still the same.

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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/12/2013 5:04:35 AM   
VideoAdminChi


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Due to multiple reports for this thread, it has been locked for review.

Meanwhile, on other threads, please stick to the topic and do not make other posters the topic.

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RE: What does contemporary feminism do for men? - 9/14/2013 11:12:11 AM   
VideoAdminChi


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Status: offline 		This thread has reached the maximum amount of personal attacks and will stay locked. I would like to take this opportunity to remind everybody that there is a Hide button that can be used to hide posters who might otherwise make you susceptible to responding with a personal attack.

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