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Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 4:52:50 PM

ROPENHIGHHEELS

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Am I correct when I say that a submissive is a person with limits while a slave is a person without limits? When I see profiles on here which say "I'm looking for a submissive that's a slave" it makes me wonder if they have any clue about the lifestyle. Or is it my understanding of the two words that is wrong? Explanations are appreciated.

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 4:55:34 PM

tsatske

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Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
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A submissive and a slave are people who like to be on the bottom of the power dynamic, that that word happens to resonate with. They will have their reasons why that word feels like it fits better, and that reason could be used as a definition, but everyone will have a different one. The important thing is to find someone who's definition is compatible with yours, and whose needs and wants are compatible with yours. (and whose craziness is compatible with yours, of course)

< Message edited by tsatske -- 9/18/2013 4:56:03 PM >

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 4:58:53 PM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ROPENHIGHHEELS

Am I correct when I say that a submissive is a person with limits while a slave is a person without limits?

Since everyone has limits, that would be no.

quote:

When I see profiles on here which say "I'm looking for a submissive that's a slave" it makes me wonder if they have any clue about the lifestyle. Or is it my understanding of the two words that is wrong? Explanations are appreciated.

The words have no universally agreed upon meaning as far as BDSM is concerned.

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 5:11:28 PM

searching4mysir

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I'm a slave who has limits. It is my responsibility to make sure that my Master has the same limits before he becomes my owner. It's about compatibility.

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 5:12:55 PM

OsideGirl

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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ROPENHIGHHEELS

Am I correct when I say that a submissive is a person with limits while a slave is a person without limits?

Nope. You aren't correct. Everyone has limits.

quote:

When I see profiles on here which say "I'm looking for a submissive that's a slave" it makes me wonder if they have any clue about the lifestyle.

We could wonder the same thing.....

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 5:19:58 PM

tsatske

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From: Louisville, KY
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I have a friend that refuses to allow a woman in a dynamic with him to use the word 'slave', because he is uncomfortable with the word. He is Native American and Latino, for him, it is a word heavily weighted with mean in white history that he does not want to deal with. since I have words I don't like, (ask my nieces and nephews about the word 'shut-up') I understand his feelings on this.

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 5:22:15 PM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
Nope. You aren't correct. Everyone has limits.

This comment reminded me of the most brilliantly tragic OP I have read on these boards: a woman describing how she, in fact, did not have limits, because of the level of abuse she received as a child.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=667112

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 5:28:55 PM

Karmastic

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For what it's worth, I agree that every person have limits, and all human relationships have responsibilities and rules on both sides of the slash. But at the same time, there are many who will vehemently disagree and state that once they gave consent (in a CNC relationship), they have absolutely no limits, including having their arms chopped off. They certainly wouldn't like it, and they believe that they chose the right master that compliments their needs and desires (such as not wanting to chop off their arms). Looked at it in that sense, they feel they "have no limits", nor can they question their master once they have agreed to 24/7 CNC.

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 5:29:31 PM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

The words have no universally agreed upon meaning as far as BDSM is concerned.

Not only that, but trying to distinguish between the two can set off an argument usually associated with politics or religion.

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 5:30:59 PM

OsideGirl

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Just because we have the same limits, doesn't mean that they don't exist. It simply means I don't have to trot them out. So, people that claim they have no limits because they chose the right person as their mate, are incorrect.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 9/18/2013 5:31:52 PM >

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 6:00:51 PM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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So you're okay being a slave to someone who decides you shouldn't ever have sex again?
Looking at your profile, I doubt it.

We all have limits. Things that cause problems for us whether causing an attack of PTSD or aggravating arthritis. Things that we know will make us so unhappy we will not be able to continue in the relationship.

Our limits help determine our compatibility.

I know some subs who have less limits than other slaves. You don't get to decide how other people structure and refer to their relationship.

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 6:03:56 PM

ChatteParfaitt

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There isn't an agreed upon definition of sub and slave, any more than there is an agreed upon definition of dominant and Master/Mistress.

There are those who believe a slave has less limits, or only shares his/her master's limits, that a slave consents only once while a sub always has the option to say no, that a slave has 'surrendered' full control and is therefore more submissive (i.e. better) than a sub.

All of the above is bullshit. Some people are more comfortable with the word sub, and others are more comfortable with the word slave. It has more to do with how individuals feel the term fits their particular dynamic.

Then there are those who have to qualify why they choose the term they do, and draw lines in the sand as to what exactly qualifies one as a sub or a slave.

Most of us on this forum are past that. Use the term that you feel most comfortable with.

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 7:13:09 PM

TigressLily

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Correct me if I'm wrong FRs, but I believe "slave" has more of the connotation of full ownership on a more or less term-defined basis, which is why some Masters/Mistresses and s-types themselves insist upon symbolically executing a slave contract. Such a 'contract' could range from six months to a few years to theoretically the slave's lifetime.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

There isn't an agreed upon definition of sub and slave, any more than there is an agreed upon definition of dominant and Master/Mistress.

There are those who believe a slave has less limits, or only shares his/her master's limits, that a slave consents only once while a sub always has the option to say no, that a slave has 'surrendered' full control and is therefore more submissive (i.e. better) than a sub.
<snip>

It's a matter of personal preference whether either D/s-type wants to consider theirs an M/s dynamic. There are Tops & bottoms who don't consider themselves strictly a Dominant or a submissive, not to mention Top-heavy Switches & bottom-heavy switches. I know several American and also British male subs who would never call themselves slaves, then others who label themselves by functionality (Alpha slave, bullslave, sissy slave, houseboy slave, finslave) or those who devote themselves to a particular fetish/kink (foot slave, chastity slave, toilet slave).

In many foreign countries, I've noticed male s-types tend to regard themselves as slaves seeking a Master/Mistress, not as subs. A German scientist pal of mine who is 3rd generation FLR refers to himself distinctly as a slave within his FLR marriage. So do other (unattached) Europeans & Asians who have contacted me without a second thought, and either envision or aspire to O/ownership on a TPE 24/7/365-1/4 level.

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< Message edited by TigressLily -- 9/18/2013 7:19:57 PM >

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 7:20:53 PM

tsatske

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Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
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I have no more problem with a person calling themselves no-limits than I do with a person that calls themselves a sub or a slave, or a puppy or a boi or a babygirl. It's all words that happen to resonate with them. When I was owned in a TPE relationship, I preferred to call myself 'nearly no limits', because I was very aware that there were things I'd walk over - and those things have come up on the boards here, from time to time. And, in general, aside from specific limits, I won't stay miserable for ever. For a while, hoping we can make it better - for a little longer if we're both honestly working on it, but not for long, in the great scheme of things. So I prefer 'nearly no limits'. But if someone else gets off on calling themselves 'no limits', that's their right. I still believe they have a big red NO button inside their brain, which just hasn't been stomped on, yet, but they are free to use the language anyway they choose. This ain't France.

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 8:04:14 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ROPENHIGHHEELS

Am I correct when I say that a submissive is a person with limits while a slave is a person without limits? When I see profiles on here which say "I'm looking for a submissive that's a slave" it makes me wonder if they have any clue about the lifestyle. Or is it my understanding of the two words that is wrong? Explanations are appreciated.

Your understanding is wrong. Something you might think about before running around calling others clueless.

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 8:18:37 PM

OsideGirl

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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TigressLily
and either envision or aspire to O/ownership on a TPE 24/7/365-1/4 level.

I'm a submissive in a TPE relationship. I still have limits.

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Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 9:24:23 PM

tsatske

Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
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I don't think Tigress said TPE means no limits, or that slave means no limits. I understood her to be saying that in certain countries, slave is a more popular word to describe subs of one gender or the other, and in other countries it may not be. But, of course, I could have misunderstood.

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“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

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Post #: 17

RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 9:28:23 PM

SerWhiteTiger

Posts: 437
Joined: 8/12/2013
From: Why is my name Florida? That's a state!
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http://www.teramis.com/kink/subvslave.htm

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 9:55:11 PM

TigressLily

Posts: 436
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TPE has nothing to do with 'no limits,' but you raise a cogent point OG, which has to do with perception.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: TigressLily

and either envision or aspire to O/ownership on a TPE 24/7/365-1/4 level.

I'm a submissive in a TPE relationship. I still have limits.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

I don't think Tigress said TPE means no limits, or that slave means no limits.

My impression has been that almost without exception, those males who deign themselves to be slaves - and not restricted to foreign countries - have bought into the no-limits myth. In fact, whenever a slave who contacts me comes across in this manner, I always make sure to clarify this to him in no uncertain terms.

_____________________________

* * * Not A Fetish/Kink Delivery System * * *

_____________________________

That Orbed Maiden with White Fire Layden
Whom Mortals Shall Call the Moon ~ Lord Byron
She Moves in Mysterious Ways . . . On Your Knees, Boy. ~ U2

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RE: Difference between sub and slave. - 9/18/2013 10:39:22 PM

NuevaVida

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~ Fast Reply ~

We haven't had a sub v slave / limits v no limits discussion around here in a long time. I don't know, it's a grey area. He considers me his slave, I don't really think of myself as slave. Not sure why, I just don't. Maybe because I hold back from totally giving myself over. Maybe because of other things.

So I couldn't really tell you what the difference is between sub & slave anymore. For me, a non-slave submissive has more say in the goings on of the relationship, but that's how I view things for myself - not for others.

As for limits/no limits. I am certainly not going to say "everybody has limits" because I'm not going to speak for the rest of the world. I know there was a time I really honestly didn't care enough about myself to put limits on what a sane person who owned me could do to me. Hell, I encouraged him to break his own limits, and at times, he did.

I'm not of the same mindset today, and now yes, there are definitely places out there I will not go.

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