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RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 8:29:36 AM

ProtagonistLily

Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

Not for nothing, but what do safe calls have to do with this at all?

This is a matter of someone being conned, not someone who was stupid and did stuff that was irresponsible. This is about a woman who was duped by a man she thought she knew. To think that it's all her fault is reprehensible.

These things happen, this woman's trouble is not isolated. She knew him real time, they met real time. What's all this internet-savvy advice have to do with the original topic?

I think that a background check is something that should be ok to do. I'm not suggesting that every time you meet someone, you should do one. But I certainly wouldn't say no if someone who was more than casual in my life said they wanted to run one on me. And if I brought it up to my sig other, I would expect them to agree as well.

People with something to hide say no. The answer to the question is almost as telling as the actual background check.

I realize that we are communicating through the internet here, but please realize that some of us actually operate in Real Time with respect to BDSM and it's not all about safe calls and check lists. It's sometimes about houses and credit ratings and kids.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to sinnah)

Post #: 21

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 8:31:42 AM

ProtagonistLily

Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

But hey, I've been on the net for 20 years and I've seen all kinds of bullshit play out in email and chat. I'm looking for real, honest-to-dog persons and not an ephemeral digital fantasy. I'll always prefer meeting someone for coffee over chat.

20 years? I wasn't aware of civilian use of the internet for longer than 12 at the most.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to dom4shaved)

Post #: 22

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 8:35:19 AM

Emmmrld

Posts: 57
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline

EmeraldSlave,

You are clearly missing multiple points here.

First let's review safe calls. Safe calls are used generally in the beginning. You have one or two (or more) who are expecting calls from you at designated times during the meeting. You are not to share those times with the person you are meeting. When setting up a meeting with someone you should always have at the minimum their name (first and last - REAL name NOT scene), telephone number, home address. Some would include driver's license number or license plate and make and model of car. I, personally recommend those things as well. ANY man worth having/serving would understand the need for such info sharing for a single woman. Your safe calls should know the time and location of your meeting and you should NOT deviate from that plan. Meaning: don't meet at the local coffee house and he goes "hey let's get a drink down the road" and you agree. NOO BAD. If he wants a drink, have coffee, set up a second meeting for drinks.

Now, for the case of the Slavemaster, there were some victims who went with out safe calls for a visit and some who communicated over time and moved. The topic of how to relocate safely from meeting someone on the net is yet another thread - not the one at hand. Feel free to start that thread, I know I'd comment on that.

The matter at hand here was background checks. Wether to do them or not. If so, when to do them. I relayed a story about a friend who, contrary to your reading ability, did not have signs right away, she was conned. I was trying to open up a dialogue with others on this view point for a variety of reasons. I wasn't looking for "she deserved it cause she knew" I was looking for your opinion on a general question - Background Checks. Which you shared that background checks should be done for business or major purchases. And that you wouldn't be with them if you needed to do a background check. Thank you for your feedback.

*Thinking to herself ... hmm major purchases? WTF ... yeah I see it now she's married to some guy and they go to buy a house and she goes "honey I need to do a background check on you first" ..... LOL ~shakes head~*

Emerald

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 23

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 9:02:39 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emmmrld
First let's review safe calls. Safe calls are used generally in the beginning. You have one or two (or more) who are expecting calls from you at designated times during the meeting. You are not to share those times with the person you are meeting. When setting up a meeting with someone you should always have at the minimum their name (first and last - REAL name NOT scene), telephone number, home address. Some would include driver's license number or license plate and make and model of car. I, personally recommend those things as well. ANY man worth having/serving would understand the need for such info sharing for a single woman.

I wouldn't meet with someone who felt they needed all of that information personally. Not because I'm not worthy, and not because I don't understand their reasons, but because I just want to meet someone, someone not paranoid, someone independent reasonable adult. I'm fine if others feel it's necessary, but I don't, and if they insist on it, then we just either meet when we both happen to be at a public place by accident together or not at all.

I've probably met about 2 dozen people from online/phone only contact in the past 6 months. Some were just for friendly meeting, some were to date, some were to just play. I don't use safe calls, I don't ask for much information beyond their name and number, but I will have at least a few cyber and phone exchanges before I make a date. This is pretty standard for what I've been doing the past few years. Not all of them turned out to be amazing, a few dorks, but no abuse, no violence, no bad feelings.

Do bad things happen to good people? Absolutely. I don't consider myself lucky though. I've met about 2 dozen people in the past six months, but I've also NOT met about 3 dozen who I've talked to and who requested meeting. I use intuition, good sense, awareness of my environment and normal adult stuff.

This is how I put it- if I don't feel safe enough with someone so that I NEED to do things like get highly personal information from them, I just will NOT meet. No middle ground.

quote:

Your safe calls should know the time and location of your meeting and you should NOT deviate from that plan. Meaning: don't meet at the local coffee house and he goes "hey let's get a drink down the road" and you agree. NOO BAD. If he wants a drink, have coffee, set up a second meeting for drinks.

Again, if I had to worry about all that, how could I just enjoy my date as a reasonable adult? Why can't I make an informed good decision to go somewhere with someone because I want to?

The reality is that I can, and have.

quote:

I wasn't looking for "she deserved it cause she knew" I was looking for your opinion on a general question - Background Checks.

I NEVER said or implied that anyone "deserved" such treatment. I said that she knew it from the beginning that it was wrong. From your timeline it was probably at least a year. My point was that you shouldn't need a background check to tell you a guy is bad news if you've got that much going on already.

If you WANT to do a check on someone to be sure, go for it. If you feel you NEED to do a background check, why even bother? Just end it.

quote:

*Thinking to herself ... hmm major purchases? WTF ... yeah I see it now she's married to some guy and they go to buy a house and she goes "honey I need to do a background check on you first" ..... LOL ~shakes head~*
Emerald

Why not? First off, they don't have to be married to make large purchases like buying a house. Specially in poly relationships, marriage is not part of the issue. I would want to do that if I were going into business with someone, or making a large purchase with someone not only because it would effect my finances and credit, but I'd need to make sure we could go through with what we wanted to do.

(in reply to Emmmrld)

Post #: 24

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 9:53:44 AM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

Lily, I've been online since 1984...by my calculations, that's 21 years...lol. (Geez, where does the time go?). Of course then you had to telnet into a BBS for chat, although I think by 86, Compuserv and Prodigy were becoming quite popular, if I"m not mistaken.

f

< Message edited by stormsfate -- 5/10/2005 9:58:55 AM >

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 25

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 4:54:01 PM

ProtagonistLily

Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Lily, I've been online since 1984...by my calculations, that's 21 years...lol. (Geez, where does the time go?). Of course then you had to telnet into a BBS for chat, although I think by 86, Compuserv and Prodigy were becoming quite popular, if I"m not mistaken.

f

That's proprietary dial up. You dialed into a specific server and were able to access the files on that server. That's not the internet hon ;)

Prodigy came on line in a limited capacity in 1984, though, for smaller markets, they weren't fully operational until '92.

L

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 26

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 4:59:53 PM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

Regardless...its "online"...lol. Not to quibble about semantics, however.

f

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

Post #: 27

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 5:01:26 PM

Emmmrld

Posts: 57
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline

Thanks for responding.

Since this thread is on Back Ground Checks I'm only going to comment on that - not your off topic drivel.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

I wasn't looking for "she deserved it cause she knew" I was looking for your opinion on a general question - Background Checks.
I NEVER said or implied that anyone "deserved" such treatment. I said that she knew it from the beginning that it was wrong. From your timeline it was probably at least a year. My point was that you shouldn't need a background check to tell you a guy is bad news if you've got that much going on already.

WOW you really just do not comprehend time lines.

I did NOT say one year. Infact I said : "several years". This implies more than 2 (two).

Infact, it was like more than 4 (four) years when this came to light for her, not one.

If she KNEW from the beginning that he was bad, she wouldn't have been with him at all. When she discovered his "other" side she got out. What part of that do you NOT comprehend?

Maybe you dont' want to believe that there are people who are con men and who can fool people for longer than a year. I guess in your 25 years of life your wisdom is so much more infinate than the rest of ours.

What I posted was had she done the background check she would have known things about him and not even been involved. Wait, I know, if you have to do that don't be with them right?

Count yourself lucky you haven't been conned - don't worry your turn will come.

You've given your opinion on background checks - thanks for playing!

~Em

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 28

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 5:11:59 PM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

K...now I'm confused. You are saying that she knew this guy for four years...long enough to marry him and have a baby with him over that four years and it took her four years to figure out he had issues? How can you be with someone for four years and not notice this sort of behaviour? Was the phone service turned off, then? Was she not getting phone calls from stores where these checks bounced? No one was calling looking for this guy in four years???

I'm not saying this didn't happen...I'm sure it happens all the time, and I feel terrible for this lady, but how could she have not had a clue for four years? I'm sure looking back she must see things that pointed to the problems that for whatever reason she ignored or didn't pick up on.

I guess I just don't feel that a background check would be all that useful. Besides...every criminal gets their start somewhere, and having a clean record now doesn't mean he would turn out to be an A OK guy. I prefer to use my own judgment when it comes to people...watching them and so forth.

Its sad that your friend had to go through this, and its unfortunate that sometimes life teaches us tough lessons. Not about getting a background check, but rather about paying closer attention to the manner of person(s) we become involved with.

best regards,
fate

*Edited for typo

< Message edited by stormsfate -- 5/10/2005 5:13:42 PM >

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to Emmmrld)

Post #: 29

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 5:39:37 PM

Emmmrld

Posts: 57
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stormsfate

K...now I'm confused. You are saying that she knew this guy for four years...long enough to marry him and have a baby with him over that four years and it took her four years to figure out he had issues? How can you be with someone for four years and not notice this sort of behaviour? Was the phone service turned off, then? Was she not getting phone calls from stores where these checks bounced? No one was calling looking for this guy in four years???

I'm not saying this didn't happen...I'm sure it happens all the time, and I feel terrible for this lady, but how could she have not had a clue for four years? I'm sure looking back she must see things that pointed to the problems that for whatever reason she ignored or didn't pick up on.

Well they met in the Southwest at a play party (mentioned this in original post). They dated for several years, eventually moving in together. When they did that he pulled the "I'm the Dominant and I will be in control routine" followed up with his last gf/sub he trusted and she took advantage of him and ruined his credit so he needed to have control. She, wanting to trust and believe in him, bought this Ug I am Dom and I am in control of ALL the finances. He had it set up to where she didn't know what was in the bank account etc. At the end and after her and I got to be close I found out he'd take cash from her - not let her have it in her wallet. I told her that was WRONG and no song and dance about being the dominant one could justify that in any book. Less than a month later he was taken into custody for fraud.

Hind site is 20/20. Sure looking back there are lots of things she could say that was a flag or that was a flag.

There are some other facts like, she suffered from depression, and he knew it and played on that. That he used aliases a lot for his fraud. He was good at robbing peter to pay paul so to speak so he always gave people enough to not turn things off.

Where they met they left "to start a life in a home". Family situation that was providing them with a house. They were engaged. After moving she got pregnant. Agian in hind site she realized they left their previous home in haste. It wasn't until he was charged she found out why - fraud in two states.

quote:

I guess I just don't feel that a background check would be all that useful. Besides...every criminal gets their start somewhere, and having a clean record now doesn't mean he would turn out to be an A OK guy. I prefer to use my own judgment when it comes to people...watching them and so forth.

Just because someone serves time does not mean they get a "clean" record. Sure they serve their time - but it still shows up on their record. That way if they repeat their crimes it becomes a pattern which is helpful to prosecuters.

Well that's good until you meet a con man, a good con man. He was good. He had a system.

After he went to jail I found out from my dad that he had approached my father to borrow money. My dad never said a word, just told him no. He even asked me, I told him no. He approached my younger brother, who told him no.

quote:

Its sad that your friend had to go through this, and its unfortunate that sometimes life teaches us tough lessons. Not about getting a background check, but rather about paying closer attention to the manner of person(s) we become involved with.

The fraud and con he pulled on her are minor to the fact that he molested his daughter. She has done some probing into his past to see if he has had any priors for sex crimes and nothing has shown up yet. But more and more stuff comes out about his fradulent / conning past. He's listed in America's Top 10 Internet Theives for cons he pulled on people over the internet - yes he served time for that.

Well she did do the methods you mention, just observing him and seeing the man he was. People liked him. Everyone seemed to speak well of him. He was good at earning trust.

Three years ago if you asked her if he would moledst their daughter she would have told you NO, NEVER. She would have said he same two years ago. A year ago is when she found out that he had. So, observing never showed her that he was a pediphile. Background checks wouldn't have shown that crime either - there is none on record prior.

My question about background checks was to see if others were doing them. She trusted her instincts and his behavior - he never showed her any reason to doubt him, his references even came back glowing!

Frankly I think that this lifestyle gives more opportunity for preditors and cons to use "I'm dominant" as a way to feed their 'sickness'.

~Em

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 30

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 5:46:57 PM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emmmrld

Just because someone serves time does not mean they get a "clean" record. Sure they serve their time - but it still shows up on their record. That way if they repeat their crimes it becomes a pattern which is helpful to prosecuters.

Uhm, my point was that everyone starts their criminal activity somewhere and prior to getting caught and convicted, would have a clean record. In short, having a clean record does not mean that they will not end up with legal difficulties down the road or that they are a nice person. But thank you for explaining the legal system to me <giggling> Sorry...I am teasing. I'm in the legal field and just got a chuckle out of you pointing that out.

So not to get into your friend's situation again, but rather to again answer the direct question...no, I would not do a background check and the reason why is that I trust my own judgment and powers of observation. I won't even go into my rant about how animals are more careful in choosing their mates than most humans....

best regards,
fate

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to Emmmrld)

Post #: 31

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 5:57:08 PM

Emmmrld

Posts: 57
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stormsfate

Uhm, my point was that everyone starts their criminal activity somewhere and prior to getting caught and convicted, would have a clean record. In short, having a clean record does not mean that they will not end up with legal difficulties down the road or that they are a nice person. But thank you for explaining the legal system to me <giggling> Sorry...I am teasing. I'm in the legal field and just got a chuckle out of you pointing that out.

Glad you got a chuckle out of it. We've never spoken so I would not have had the knowledge that you are in the legal field. While being in that field you would know a lot, and I'm sure you've come across people who are not educated to their rights or even how to find such things out.

quote:

So not to get into your friend's situation again, but rather to again answer the direct question...no, I would not do a background check and the reason why is that I trust my own judgment and powers of observation. I won't even go into my rant about how animals are more careful in choosing their mates than most humans....

Not knowing which end of the legal field you are practicing, I would venture to guess that your skills are a bit more tuned than the average person given the industry you are in and the types of repetitive human behavior you are exposed to.

Intersting though, every cop that I've dated has told me they think single women should do background checks. Even a DA friend of mine thinks that.

Asking for play references - something people should do and don't - that is a form of background check, don't you think?

~Em

(in reply to stormsfate)

Post #: 32

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 6:18:47 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emmmrld
Not knowing which end of the legal field you are practicing, I would venture to guess that your skills are a bit more tuned than the average person given the industry you are in and the types of repetitive human behavior you are exposed to.

But it's really just luck I'm sure- she'll end up raped soon enough I'm sure. (and not in the hot scene way)

quote:

Asking for play references - something people should do and don't - that is a form of background check, don't you think?

~Em

I think they are worthless- who is going to give you a bad reference? How can you judge the references perspective if you can't judge the person giving you the references? How can you test their validity?

Half the "seasoned doms" in the scenes that are "well respected" are really just playsluts who have a lot of turnover, I call them rock star doms because they have groupies.

If I want to know about someone, I might ask around, if we're talking real time. But when it comes to deciding who to get involved with, I trust my own judgements.

(in reply to Emmmrld)

Post #: 33

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 6:27:26 PM

Emmmrld

Posts: 57
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emmmrld
Not knowing which end of the legal field you are practicing, I would venture to guess that your skills are a bit more tuned than the average person given the industry you are in and the types of repetitive human behavior you are exposed to.

But it's really just luck I'm sure- she'll end up raped soon enough I'm sure. (and not in the hot scene way)

- [edited by Mod] -

I never said she'd end up raped. - [edited by Mod] - I was referring to her the skills/abilities she refers to in judging people. I was commenting that given the industry she works in - the legal one - she has more exposure to the average person. - [edited by Mod] -

- [edited by Mod] -

~Em

Moderator Note - Flaming. Address the post - not the poster. If the trend continues you will be placed on board moderation

< Message edited by ModeratorNine -- 5/12/2005 12:21:51 PM >

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 34

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 6:31:54 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emmmrld
If you had gone to college maybe you'd have the ability to comprehend that I was referring to her the skills/abilities she refers to in judging people.

Just to note- I do have a BA in philosophy, I think it's the first or second line of my profile.

(in reply to Emmmrld)

Post #: 35

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 6:35:00 PM

stormsfate

Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emmmrld

Intersting though, every cop that I've dated has told me they think single women should do background checks. Even a DA friend of mine thinks that.

Asking for play references - something people should do and don't - that is a form of background check, don't you think?

~Em

I wasn't laughing *at* you, Em....it just gave me a giggle...no biggie. Now this brings up an interesting point. Do your cop and DA friends feel that single men should also do background checks? Afterall, men do not have a monopoly on illicit behaviour.

As far as play references go...everyone plays differently, and everyone's idea of what is safe is different. My reference of someone wouldn't mean a hill of beans to someone who feels that all edge play is dangerous. I would be much more comfortable in observing someone's play style for myself over time than I would be taking someone else's word for it. As EmeraldSlave2 (I think it was) pointed out...the reference is only as good as the person giving it and I've noticed that plenty of people take other people's word for it, and will give a reference for someone they may know pretty well, but haven't actually played with. Go figure.

If doing background checks makes one feel safer, then by all means...do background checks. I would just hope that a person wouldn't base their faith entirely on the results of one that came back clean.

best regards,
f

*Edited after reading a prior post to add...

Alright...I'm done with this thread. If you feel the need to stoop to name calling and personal attacks when someone's opinion differs from yours, and if calling people stupid and other names makes you feel somehow superior...then I really have nothing further to discuss. C'ya.

< Message edited by stormsfate -- 5/10/2005 6:37:41 PM >

_____________________________

Vision? What do you know about MY vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you! Now ask yourself, are you really ready to see that vision? [/size

(in reply to Emmmrld)

Post #: 36

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 7:25:14 PM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

Nothing is ever written in stone. Background checks too can fail. With all the flack the Internet gets from being what is delivering *evil* we fail to see it also as a tool we can use for protection also. If the information you've been given isn't a fabrication a search engine is a good place to start. Many states have data bases that can be searched for criminal convictions. Nothing is fool proof but a little effort may prevent a rude awakening.

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

Post #: 37

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 7:30:31 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

I think this kind of abuse is unacceptable. Emmmrld, you should be ashamed of yourself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emmmrld

Wow you really are that dumb. I mean WOWZERS. I really didn't think someone could be that completely stupid, yet you are. You are really a piece of work.

Can you read english or is that not your first language? If it's not say something and I'd be glad to help you with comprehension.

(in reply to Emmmrld)

Post #: 38

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 8:15:25 PM

ProtagonistLily

Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Just to note- I do have a BA in philosophy, I think it's the first or second line of my profile.

Perhaps someone should do a background check to see if this is so....~shrugs~

L

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

Post #: 39

RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 8:19:43 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily
Perhaps someone should do a background check to see if this is so....~shrugs~

L

Hey everyone's got their kink, if someone gets off on it, more power to them.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

Post #: 40

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