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RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 8:29:18 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily
Out of sheer curiosity, I would love to know how you devined that she knew way at the beginning he was bad news.
Lily

At the risk of sounding harsh to the Emmrld's friend, she didn't need a background check, she needed her brain checked... Don't misunderstand me, I'm not throwing stones; having made similar mistakes, my reasons (and I suspect hers too) are that I didn't pay attention to behavior becoming an asshole, and instead made excuses for why things were as they were (after all no one is perfect, and why should I be so shallow, and not give the poor bastard a break).

I can see bad behavior from a mile away now. I'm not saying there aren't sociopaths for whom background checks would be the only way to see things, but most of the time we see bad behavior, discount it, stay in there and it almost always leads to disaster.
Akasha's simple examples of watching how he copes with simple problems, behaves alone/in public and how he treats other people are all one needs to discover what company one is keeping (IMO). M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/10/2005 8:42:51 PM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		This story is a sad one but it is an extremely rare occurance.
Should on check out a person at most levels its a good thing. I tend to work on trust However I have no issue at all if someone "checks" me out by asking possable mutual contacts. In fact I think that is wise thing as others often have a better "view" of who I am then even myself.
Yet I say this in the steps "before" meeting another.
I maybe a trusting person and altho I may in the past been burned by that trust, That does not mean that I should not trust others.
But this is coming from a Dom viewpoint not a submissives viewpoint. And The proponderance of trust has to be from them to me. So I thing it is a wise thing to do and I respect that.

Should one go to the extent of a professional background check NO.
But then I would not have a problem if someone wished to "just" to be sure.If only because there are storys like this that DO occur.

I would not even consider doing it. Would I be upset if someone did it on me. Perhaps a little as that would show there is a problem with "OUR" trust level.


_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 6:16:11 AM   
GentleLady


Posts: 356
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline

....The question was already answered.

Gentle Lady


< Message edited by GentleLady -- 5/11/2005 6:26:50 AM >

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All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 6:48:16 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

At the risk of sounding harsh to the Emmrld's friend, she didn't need a background check, she needed her brain checked... Don't misunderstand me, I'm not throwing stones; having made similar mistakes, my reasons (and I suspect hers too) are that I didn't pay attention to behavior becoming an asshole, and instead made excuses for why things were as they were (after all no one is perfect, and why should I be so shallow, and not give the poor bastard a break).

I can see bad behavior from a mile away now. I'm not saying there aren't sociopaths for whom background checks would be the only way to see things, but most of the time we see bad behavior, discount it, stay in there and it almost always leads to disaster.
Akasha's simple examples of watching how he copes with simple problems, behaves alone/in public and how he treats other people are all one needs to discover what company one is keeping (IMO). M


Ahh, it must be so nice to be so evolved, M. I've had bad people crop up in my life after thinking they were ok, and I've learned much. However, I don't fool myself by thinking I am immune to letting in con artists or misjudging people at first glance. It happens, as it happened to the woman in Emrrld's story.

I find it particularly alarming that we, mostly woman in this discussion, continue to blame the victim and feel that she should have known better. That, in and of itself, is the most troubling thing for me through this conversation.

Of course it is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I simply don't agree with you. And I'd still love to know how our resident omnitient figured this out.

Lily

< Message edited by ProtagonistLily -- 5/11/2005 1:21:31 PM >

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(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
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RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 6:56:24 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		No one said she should have known better- but we did say she made the wrong choices once she DID know better.

I also think telling a woman that "something bad WILL happen to you eventually" is rather pointless and totally undermines the fact that we CAN make good judgements and not all become victims to a nasty world.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 7:01:30 AM   
ruffnecksbabygir


Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		i think a little common sense goes a long way.
i understand there are people out there that will manipulate their way into a victims heart and even worse, bank account....or psycho's that roam the net or the streets lurking after their next victim...in which case i don't think common sense or good judgement or even the almighty safe call will do much good. Just my humble opinion.


_____________________________

~hugs~
Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

"And Those Who Danced Were Thought To Be Quite Insane By Those Who Could Not Hear The Music" -- Angela Monet

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 8:00:01 AM   
Emmmrld


Posts: 57
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stormsfate

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emmmrld

Intersting though, every cop that I've dated has told me they think single women should do background checks. Even a DA friend of mine thinks that.

Asking for play references - something people should do and don't - that is a form of background check, don't you think?

~Em


I wasn't laughing *at* you, Em....it just gave me a giggle...no biggie. Now this brings up an interesting point. Do your cop and DA friends feel that single men should also do background checks? Afterall, men do not have a monopoly on illicit behaviour.


Actually yes. They have seen con women out there. It just seems more common, or more well known to hear of men doing it to women. Their recommendation is that if you want a background check you have to willing to share the same information so they could do the same.

They usually suggest asking around about them. Which I do. I've never run a background check on someone. Not sure if I ever would. I find it interesting to hear someone's story and why they think things should be done, especially if universally.


quote:

As far as play references go...everyone plays differently, and everyone's idea of what is safe is different. My reference of someone wouldn't mean a hill of beans to someone who feels that all edge play is dangerous. I would be much more comfortable in observing someone's play style for myself over time than I would be taking someone else's word for it. As EmeraldSlave2 (I think it was) pointed out...the reference is only as good as the person giving it and I've noticed that plenty of people take other people's word for it, and will give a reference for someone they may know pretty well, but haven't actually played with. Go figure.


I have checked play references in the past. I've been asked for play references, even on people who I didn't play with. I owned a play space and usually the person who was asking me was another venue owner who "heard rumor" that x was unsafe or broke rules and knew they had played at my space. I would tell them wether or not they'd be allowed back or if there was any concern to put another DM on shift while they played. If it was someone who wanted to play with a person I didn't play with I would simply tell them that they needed to talk to x, y, and z. I learned very quickly that the references they give are glowing - so you ask around. Often times people think dom's should do that on a sub but they should. I've ran across a few who say this and that are ok play and a week later "he didn't honor my limits". BULLSHIT. I don't ask about types of play I ask about things like has the sub ever called a safeword and if so did he respond accordingly? Because what I like and enjoy another will not or will. I'm more concerned that they are who they say they are.

quote:


If doing background checks makes one feel safer, then by all means...do background checks. I would just hope that a person wouldn't base their faith entirely on the results of one that came back clean.


Oh goood god no. You could do a background check on lots of people and they'd come back clean but they could be real assholes. I think that if dated someone who told me they had a criminal backgroun I would tell them I wanted a background check. I would want to see what the charges are myself and determine if I'm ok with their past or not. There are certain things that wouldn't bother me, and a bunch that would. I'd hate to count out a really great person who did a stupid thing when they were 18/19 and in college.



quote:


*Edited after reading a prior post to add...

Alright...I'm done with this thread. If you feel the need to stoop to name calling and personal attacks when someone's opinion differs from yours, and if calling people stupid and other names makes you feel somehow superior...then I really have nothing further to discuss. C'ya.


ROFL Doesn't make me feel superior. I don't need to feel superior over another. I'm confident in who I am as a person. I also know that if I don't have something relevant to say, I don't need to post. (she should learn that one too)

I think difference of opinions are great wonderful things. It gives you a chance to either change your opinion or re-affirm your opinion. I think carrying yourself in an intelligent manner is something all should do, especially those who have keyboards and want to participate on a board like this.

What I have a problem with is her inability to read what is said and comment on what was said. She goes off on tangents that are well makes her look stupid. It makes her look like she has a need to post to whatever people say and doesn't pay attention to a word said. If she did that she'd be fine.

quote:

quote:


ORIGINAL: Emmmrld
Not knowing which end of the legal field you are practicing, I would venture to guess that your skills are a bit more tuned than the average person given the industry you are in and the types of repetitive human behavior you are exposed to.


quote:


But it's really just luck I'm sure- she'll end up raped soon enough I'm sure. (and not in the hot scene way)



At no time did I said you'd be raped, nor do I think that. I was commenting on the fact that given your professional field you are exposed to more opportunities to see the repetative nature of human behavior, particularly of humans who are "bad". No comment was needed from her. No where did I talk of rape.

She was baiting a hook for a flame and I took it. It's a message board. If she truely wanted to participate in intellectual conversation, why then do a VAST majority of her posts always go off on some obscure tangent? If she truely wanted to participate in a REAL conversation then why the need to comment like she did? She could have made a more intellectual comment either agreeing with that observation or disagreeing with it - she CHOOSE not to.

I CHOOSE to respond to her and tell her frankly what I thought of her post(s).

So why not a post to her saying how inappropriate her comment was? Hmmmm I have ideas why ....

You have a good day ...

Thanks for Playing!!

~Em


(in reply to stormsfate)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 8:03:21 AM   
Emmmrld


Posts: 57
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Emmmrld
If you had gone to college maybe you'd have the ability to comprehend that I was referring to her the skills/abilities she refers to in judging people.

Just to note- I do have a BA in philosophy, I think it's the first or second line of my profile.




-[edited by Mod]-

Besides I could put that I'm the Queen of Sheeba in my profile - doesn't mean it's true.

:)

Moderator Note - Flaming. Address the post - not the poster. If the trend continues you will be placed on board moderation

< Message edited by ModeratorNine -- 5/12/2005 12:24:47 PM >

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 8:06:36 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emmmrld

quote:


But it's really just luck I'm sure- she'll end up raped soon enough I'm sure. (and not in the hot scene way)



At no time did I said you'd be raped, nor do I think that.


You're right, what you said to me was "Count yourself lucky you haven't been conned - don't worry your turn will come."

I was using hyperbole to make a simpler point. If you want to be a stickler I should have said "But it's really just luck I'm sure- she'll end up conned soon enough."


(in reply to Emmmrld)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 8:07:05 AM   
Emmmrld


Posts: 57
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver

Nothing is ever written in stone. Background checks too can fail. With all the flack the Internet gets from being what is delivering *evil* we fail to see it also as a tool we can use for protection also. If the information you've been given isn't a fabrication a search engine is a good place to start. Many states have data bases that can be searched for criminal convictions. Nothing is fool proof but a little effort may prevent a rude awakening.



True they can fail. The internet is an AWESOME tool. Have you ever googled your full name? My friend did that to her ex - that's how she found out about the internet crimes. I have another friend who comes up on link #1, but not for 'bad' stuff.

Are these databases free searches or something you would have to pay for or be in the legal industry to access? Do you know?

Great stuff !!

Thanks!
:)

~Em

(in reply to Quivver)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 8:11:57 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emmmrld

Oh Philosophy such a ... a bullshit degree. Couldn't decide what you were going to do and picked that? What do you do with a degree in philosophy? It's not like Socrates is hiring.

Well if you want the full truth I fell in love with humanities, received a full humanities scholarship that included a semester abroad which I took to Ireland, and decided that linguistics wasn't quite right for me.

The Owner has been working towards me becoming a lawyer. Right now I do something fairly generic corporate and non-glamorous for normal life bill paying and unrelated to philosophy.
quote:


Besides I could put that I'm the Queen of Sheeba in my profile - doesn't mean it's true.
:)


You made mention that I think I know everything...first you say I don't have an education, then when I say I do you insinuate that I'm lying about it. It's nice that you have a neat system that somehow you are always right.

But I have to say I find this amusing after you JUST posted this:

"If she truely wanted to participate in a REAL conversation then why the need to comment like she did? She could have made a more intellectual comment either agreeing with that observation or disagreeing with it - she CHOOSE not to. "

and then made such insulting comments totally off-topic.

(in reply to Emmmrld)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 8:12:33 AM   
Emmmrld


Posts: 57
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline 		ROFL

Thanks for the comments.

Abuse? ROFL Ok I didnt' abuse her. She posted - don't be on a message board if you can't take a little flaming. Besides have you read her post - she didn't want to discuss stuff she was wanting to have someone flame her, she baited a hook and I choose to take it.

Nope I'm not ashamed of myself.

-[edited by Mod]-

Thanks for the comments!

:)

~Em

Moderator Note - Flaming. Address the post - not the poster. If the trend continues you will be placed on board moderation

< Message edited by ModeratorNine -- 5/12/2005 12:26:32 PM >

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 8:19:55 AM   
Emmmrld


Posts: 57
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline 		BTF

No harshness about it. She didn't know. When she shared with me that he controlled ALL the finances I was like "uh sweetie doesn't that sound odd to you?" I know at first I didn't think much of her asking him for cash when we'd run to the store or go to a movie. It's common to not have 'cash' on you and you ask your other half.

He masked his poor behavior under the guise that he was dominant.

How many times on here do you see people talk about living 24/7 and making the fantasy real? How many times do people buy into some things that in the vanilla world wouldn't fly? I don't know how many times I've heard dominants state that submissives should NOT question them, what they do or how they do it.

So now, her buying into the fantasy of our world. Trusting her "master". Everything said he was a good guy. Now, it's "she knew from the beginning".

In hindsite she can see the flags, but hindsite is always 20/20.

:)
~Em

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 8:27:19 AM   
Emmmrld


Posts: 57
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kinkypupper

This story is a sad one but it is an extremely rare occurance.
Should on check out a person at most levels its a good thing. I tend to work on trust However I have no issue at all if someone "checks" me out by asking possable mutual contacts. In fact I think that is wise thing as others often have a better "view" of who I am then even myself.
Yet I say this in the steps "before" meeting another.
I maybe a trusting person and altho I may in the past been burned by that trust, That does not mean that I should not trust others.
But this is coming from a Dom viewpoint not a submissives viewpoint. And The proponderance of trust has to be from them to me. So I thing it is a wise thing to do and I respect that.

Should one go to the extent of a professional background check NO.
But then I would not have a problem if someone wished to "just" to be sure.If only because there are storys like this that DO occur.

I would not even consider doing it. Would I be upset if someone did it on me. Perhaps a little as that would show there is a problem with "OUR" trust level.



I think that background checks - as in full blown criminal/credit - are stupid if you are just playing. I was more asking about LTR that lead to marriage type of thing.

I realize that you are dominant and feel she has to trust you. Have you ever had a sub cry wolf after play? Have you ever had a conern that a sub would not use her safeword and then later claim abuse? Couldn't that tarnish your reputation? Or are you not worried about such things as a male dominant?

:)

~Em

(in reply to Kinkypupper)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 8:44:43 AM   
Emmmrld


Posts: 57
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

Ahh, it must be so nice to be so evolved, M. I've had bad people crop up in my life after thinking they were ok, and I've learned much. However, I don't fool myself by thinking I am immune to letting in con artists or misjudging people at first glance. It happens, as it happened to the woman in Emrrld's story.

I find it particularly alarming that we, mostly woman in this discussion, continue to blame the victim and feel that she should have known better. That, in and of itself, is the most troubling thing for me through this conversation.

Of course it is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I simply don't agree with you. And I'd still love to know how our resident omnitient figured this out.

Lily


Lily - Thank you for mentioning a very disturbing point, attacking the victim. I felt that posting about my friend, and why she thinks background checks are important, was pertinent to having an educated discussion on relationships, when they get serious, trust, interpersonal skills on knowing if someone is bad or good.

I think that it's truelly a shame that women, in a lifestyle that is able to mask preditors of various types, immidiately jump to attack the victim. There are bad women out there as well doing bad things to men. I've seen to many times you share a story about a woman who didn't use a safe word and later ruins a dominants reputation - only to have people back the woman up on why it's ok to do that. Truely mind boggling to me how we humans justify each other's actions.

I knew a woman who had not done a play reference, didn't have safe calls, etc. Went to a guy's home to play. Needless to say she ended up with a broken cheek bone, broken ribs, broken arm, and moved away becasue he began stalking her. After the urgence of several of us to post her story and his name to a mailing list she did. What happened after that was AMAZING. Five women were brave enough to come forward publically and tell their story of what he did to them. The went to the police and pressed charges.

We see this in the 'vanilla' world all of the time. The victim gets attacked by others. So future victims live with the wrong doing rather than get help because of fear of being attacked.

This thread wasn't about what a victim she was or how there were signs and she didn't see them. This was about a man, who had a past, who lied, who won her trust, whom she trusted with her life, who broke that trust, who lied about everything, and eventually committed the worst crime ever - molesting their child. There were NO tells that he had that in him. The vanilla world would blame it on kink - but we know that's not true. He was a good con man who did horrible things.

Any way, thank you for your posting. It's a shame that women seem so quick to attack another woman who was a victim, rather than discuss what the red flags are. I've seen so many say "she knew, there are signs", yet not offer a single sign as an example. That's why I 've tried to share how he worked the finances. Yet not one other person has responded with their "expertise" on how to see a red flag, just that they are good at judging character.

I'm sorry but you don't go through life with out being duped once.

I think it's a shame at how many women are quick to judge, yet not so quick to share their knowledge and experience on relationship - be it casual or serious - and how to spot red flags.

:)

Thanks for playing!

~Em


< Message edited by Emmmrld -- 5/16/2005 10:35:29 PM >

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 8:53:57 AM   
Emmmrld


Posts: 57
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

No one said she should have known better- but we did say she made the wrong choices once she DID know better.




Um HELLO .... when she found out she left him and divorced him. WHAT MORE could she do?? Please enlighten me!


(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 8:57:52 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emmmrld
I've seen so many say "she knew, there are signs", yet not offer a single sign as an example. That's why I 've tried to share how he worked the finances. Yet not one other person has responded with their "expertise" on how to see a red flag, just that they are good at judging character.Thanks for playing!

~Em


That's because there are no universal "red flags." Judging character and personality is a skill, it's an intuition, it's a set of learned experiences. You have to take the whole into account and you have to see what rubs you the wrong way.

In your first post you said:

She was shocked to find he was hiding the mail from her

At some point she realized that this wasn't 'right'.

She decided to stay and try to work it out.

She made a deal so they wouldn't bring charges.

Then they shared custody and it was 6 more months before she discovered the molestation.

I think it's pretty easy to say, this woman saw and knew this guy was bad long before she ended it. She kept making the choice to go back with him even after she knew very well how dysfunctional and abusive he was.

(in reply to Emmmrld)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 9:13:46 AM   
Kindred2Evil


Posts: 227
Joined: 4/16/2005
Status: offline 		EM2, I'm not being hateful, but you need to just quit while you're ahead. I've been here for a little while now and I truelly have enjoyed your b.s. you talk in circles, you seem to come across as someone with a limited knowledge and quite frankly, I think you're ignorant for not using the safe methods that are standard practice in this lifestyle.

As for the topic, background checks in my opinion are necessary if you are planning a LTR. I always get references from play partners, to me it's just common sense.

Emmmrld, I hate it for your friend that this happened to her, I hate it more that her child suffered because of this piece of shit rat basterd. I hope she can overcome this and help her child through it. It wasn't her fault, she didn't know and whomever blames her is just lower than dirt in my opinion.

I can't fathom people not using the safety nets that have been put into place for them, Dom's and sub's alike. Would you jump on a motorcycle with someone who had no clue what they were doing? Probably not. So why put yourself in a situation where you could be killed simply because you were too arrogent or lazy to get references? As far as bad references go, I offer up all of mine. Good, bad, ugly, great or indifferent...I want someone I play with to have a good idea of what and who I am and how I play. Not checking these are a deal breaker for me and should be for anyone. IMHO of course

_____________________________

Her touch is on the breeze that brushes your cheek, Her voice rides the thunder as the storm breaks, Her tears will clean your heartache when the rains come, Her sun will light the darkest times when you feel alone...She is the Goddess.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 10:42:57 AM   
Emmmrld


Posts: 57
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Emmmrld
I've seen so many say "she knew, there are signs", yet not offer a single sign as an example. That's why I 've tried to share how he worked the finances. Yet not one other person has responded with their "expertise" on how to see a red flag, just that they are good at judging character.Thanks for playing!

~Em


That's because there are no universal "red flags." Judging character and personality is a skill, it's an intuition, it's a set of learned experiences. You have to take the whole into account and you have to see what rubs you the wrong way.

In your first post you said:

She was shocked to find he was hiding the mail from her

At some point she realized that this wasn't 'right'.

She decided to stay and try to work it out.

She made a deal so they wouldn't bring charges.

Then they shared custody and it was 6 more months before she discovered the molestation.

I think it's pretty easy to say, this woman saw and knew this guy was bad long before she ended it. She kept making the choice to go back with him even after she knew very well how dysfunctional and abusive he was.


If you think you're going to be a lawyer you should work on getting time lines down. It would be pertinent for you.

EDITED:

I had posted a time line.

You've taken statements out of context to attempt to prove a point, and not very well.

Clearly you want to engage in a debate over someone you don't know, a situation you don't have all of the facts for, yet you can judge.

You've posted your opinion on background checks - the nature of this thread. I appriciate your out look on the subject.

I'm not going to continue discussing this with you.

Good Day!

Emerald

< Message edited by Emmmrld -- 5/11/2005 11:50:04 AM >

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Back Ground Checks - 5/11/2005 10:59:55 AM   
ruffnecksbabygir


Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		i'd hate to be your friend and have all this personal information about my life smeared all over a message board. yuk.

_____________________________

~hugs~
Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

"And Those Who Danced Were Thought To Be Quite Insane By Those Who Could Not Hear The Music" -- Angela Monet

(in reply to Emmmrld)
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