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RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/17/2007 1:15:04 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		are you insinuateing that Im a brat playing pretend games???

Its one thing if you are teaching the girl how to teach the new girl and such but personally that isnt a job I want, If I wanted responsability for a slaves behavior I would become a Domme. I dont wich to train another slave or become responsable if her training isnt going well. If the Master is takeing on another slave shouldnt he be training her and if he cant or doesnt want to train her himself he shouldnt be takeing on another slave!!!!

This is how I feel how does that make me a brat playing pretend??


Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/17/2007 1:21:05 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
are you insinuateing that Im a brat playing pretend games???

I'm suggesting that the behaviors you describe have no place in a mature adult relationship, specially a poly one.  Backstabbing and resentment and passive aggressive- blech.
quote:


Its one thing if you are teaching the girl how to teach the new girl and such but personally that isnt a job I want, If I wanted responsability for a slaves behavior I would become a Domme. I dont wich to train another slave or become responsable if her training isnt going well. If the Master is takeing on another slave shouldnt he be training her and if he cant or doesnt want to train her himself he shouldnt be takeing on another slave!!!!

A) No one told you that you had to be in this type of relationship, so it's good that you don't want it.

B) I guess you never heard of management?  Delegating things is a standard and normal part of many M/s relationships.  There's no reason this can't also be delegated.  For a LOT of poly relationships, this is actually a way that the slaves can form bonds with eachother so they don't feel anxious or pressured- they know what the score is, they know what the expectations are.  They don't have to think "Are we close enough?"

I'd lay off on telling people what they should or shouldn't do in their relationships.  My guess is you wouldn't like me telling that to you.
quote:


This is how I feel how does that make me a brat playing pretend??

Well you are getting a little too defensive.





_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/17/2007 1:23:45 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: robertolapiedra
Edited: I misread . I thought ownedgirlie was refering to my answer. Sorry if I did not correct post in time.


Hi Roberto,

I was responding to your post, in that having nothing to say would not be an acceptable answer.  I am unaware of Japanese or French methods as for me there is only Master's method :) .....
I do not know the severity or magnitude which you are comparing.  With the intensity I receive from my Master, it's very hard to get a word out afterwords.  But it is required, so I do.  Giving him anything less than what he requires would be as self serving as asking him for a reprieve.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts...


We agree. But if for the sub the experience is the same as in a 'most severe discipline scene' having the effect of sending you to (or near) subspace? You may not even be 'physically' able to speak. That is why I do not expect a verbal response. Often when you have one, it is not always that coherent (gagaland). There is always tomorrow for a nice philosophical intelligent conversation. Yes?

The japanese style of reprimanding or dressing down is very,very,very 'humiliation' based. The other old styles? Very,very,very fear based! The doms in those days could punish you severely ('real' punishment) just for the hell of it and subspace was not a particularely understood 'item' then, nor warm up periods! As for safe words? That is a modern contemporary innovation, if you said 'stop' to a dom you were punished for saying this. The sadistic aspect was more at the front then. In general, subs then did not have piercings nor tattoos (in books yes!) and they were scarred all over after a few years (which made them even prettier in the eyes of the sadist set). That's what I'm referring  to when I speak of severity and magnitude. In some contexts, it is smart to say nothing when you are being dressed down. RL.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/17/2007 1:36:25 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
are you insinuateing that Im a brat playing pretend games???

I'm suggesting that the behaviors you describe have no place in a mature adult relationship, specially a poly one.  Backstabbing and resentment and passive aggressive- blech.
quote:


Its one thing if you are teaching the girl how to teach the new girl and such but personally that isnt a job I want, If I wanted responsability for a slaves behavior I would become a Domme. I dont wich to train another slave or become responsable if her training isnt going well. If the Master is takeing on another slave shouldnt he be training her and if he cant or doesnt want to train her himself he shouldnt be takeing on another slave!!!!

A) No one told you that you had to be in this type of relationship, so it's good that you don't want it.

B) I guess you never heard of management?  Delegating things is a standard and normal part of many M/s relationships.  There's no reason this can't also be delegated.  For a LOT of poly relationships, this is actually a way that the slaves can form bonds with eachother so they don't feel anxious or pressured- they know what the score is, they know what the expectations are.  They don't have to think "Are we close enough?"

I'd lay off on telling people what they should or shouldn't do in their relationships.  My guess is you wouldn't like me telling that to you.
quote:


This is how I feel how does that make me a brat playing pretend??

Well you are getting a little too defensive.






Didnt mean to get to defencive. this is one of the reasons i would never want to be in a multy slave house I dont want to take orders from other slaves and i dont want to give orders to them eather.. What I said was based on my own feelings and opinions I just dont like the idea of punishing somsone for someone els doing something wrong. You made it seem like if I felt that way I was nothing more then a brat pretending to be a slave and yes I took offence to that.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/17/2007 1:39:17 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
You made it seem like if I felt that way I was nothing more then a brat pretending to be a slave and yes I took offence to that.

Magik's slave


How many times must you be reminded that when that happens, take a breath, look at it again from another angle, then ask to be sure.

THEN, if you must, let yourself be offended.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/17/2007 1:47:27 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Have you actually asked HER why she doesn't speak at those times? Wouldn't that give you more to go on than a lot of guesses or surmising, in here? It seems as if she is the one with the key to the *irritation*.

Other than that........Tempting mentioned asking direct questions.  There are times when I just struggle to articulate and I actually ask * Please would you ask me questions, Master?*. After a few responses from me I am suitably mentally lubricated again.

agirl

(in reply to gothique)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/17/2007 1:49:07 PM   
MistressNoName


Posts: 664
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

The japanese style of reprimanding or dressing down is very,very,very 'humiliation' based. The other old styles? Very,very,very fear based! The doms in those days could punish you severely ('real' punishment) just for the hell of it and subspace was not a particularely understood 'item' then, nor warm up periods! As for safe words? That is a modern contemporary innovation, if you said 'stop' to a dom you were punished for saying this. The sadistic aspect was more at the front then. In general, subs then did not have piercings nor tattoos (in books yes!) and they were scarred all over after a few years (which made them even prettier in the eyes of the sadist set). That's what I'm referring to when I speak of severity and magnitude. In some contexts, it is smart to say nothing when you are being dressed down. RL.



Very good points, roberto. Thanks for pointing out the differences in discipline between Japanese style and other styles. I think you are probably spot on about the focus being more humiliation-based. That gives me some further insight on what might've been going on in the head of that boy I had been working with.

MNN

(in reply to robertolapiedra)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/17/2007 2:20:16 PM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

this is one of the reasons i would never want to be in a multy slave house I dont want to take orders from other slaves and i dont want to give orders to them eather.. What I said was based on my own feelings and opinions I just dont like the idea of punishing somsone for someone els doing something wrong.


Let me see if I can shed some light on it for you ... and I don't know if I can because you aren't poly. ~pondering~

There isn't any resentment when I am punished for something my sister does, or when she is punished for something I do. We know it is Master's way of making us ~think~ before we act or speak. It makes us closer as sisters - we are responsible not just for ourselves but for each other.

It isn't as though Master punishes us just for something to do. She is the alpha - she is supposed to set the example and to train me in her own way. What I do or fail to do reflects on her at times, and Master, if he is in the mood to do so, may make her hand out my punishment so that we ~both~ learn. 

Do I get mad at her for it? Of course not. Will I forget the lesson Master was trying to teach? No way. If Master asked me a question and if I refused to answer, and if he punished ~her~ for my inability to speak, then rest assured I would not hesitate again to speak when Master asked me a direct question. 

Similarly, if Master asked a question, and if I refused to answer, would I take a good lesson if my sister got on her knees next to me and gave Master some words in my stead? You betcha! Not only would I want to make Master proud of me, I would also want to make my sister proud of me. It is a very nice, very loving dynamic, in fact.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/17/2007 2:32:29 PM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		I feel compelled to add that the poly M/s relationship I am in is comprised of four different dynamics.

Master/alpha
Master/beta
Master/alpha/beta
alpha/beta

The relationship that my sister and I have is a love relationship. I love her, simply. It is different than the love I have for Master, but it is definitely love. It seems that perhaps a lot of people who do not understand poly think that all poly relationships are based on love for one's Master and only relative tolerance by slaves for the other slaves in the house. I can't speak for all poly households but I do hope that they are not run in that fashion. It would seem far more difficult for the Master to control the household if the slaves didn't have that bond.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to slaveish)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/17/2007 2:43:49 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline 		Hello MistressNoNar. You are very welcome. I wonder how many people know that male subs have much more difficulty than females in responding to their doms/dommes when they are dressed down? RL.

< Message edited by robertolapiedra -- 5/17/2007 2:50:23 PM >

(in reply to MistressNoName)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/17/2007 3:04:58 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gothique

I am the alpha female submissive to my Master who also owns a  female slave.  She and I have a relationship loosely based on the Japanese Sempai/kohai model.  When she misbehaves or fails in her assigned duties, it reflects badly on me.
There is one thing she does a lot of the time and I need some suggestions on how to motivate a better response.
When Master is dressing her down and telling her what she has done wrong, at the end, he always asks her for her thoughts and feelings regarding what has transpired.  He always tells her to feel free to speak and be honest.  She will kneel there with her hands behind her, her head bowed, and will not utter a word.  I know she has thoughts, she's not stupid by any stretch of the imagination. 
I need to know how others have handled reluctnat-to-speak sub/slaves.
What will motivate them to speak? 


I believe that there are times when submissives do not speak out of respect for the dominant, knowing that they are in no mood to speak and to do so would only compound a problem that they do not want to compound.  Her actions after being dressed down can sometimes be more of an indicator than her words.

Other things to consider:  Is she afraid to speak the truth?  (Has done so before and been punished for it for "not seeing properly"?  Is it, as julia noted, the knowledge that she really has nothing to say that will be a true defense rather than a justification and so, keeps quiet hoping to move on?  And finally, in a very perceptive post by Tempting....perhaps you need to reconsider your questions and make them more direct.

(in reply to gothique)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/17/2007 4:20:04 PM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		gothique does the new slave know what is expected of her in regards to reacting to being dressed down? Is it possible that she is unaware of the proper protocol that she ought to be following? She may need to know what she can say, what she should say. Asking for thoughts and feelings may not be specific enough which could cause an inability to answer for fear of being wrong.
Sometimes when I do not answer it is because I am unsure of how much I can say, how much overwrought emotion I can show. Remaining stoic too lets me try and gain control of myself at times.

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.


~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/17/2007 5:13:10 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

Sometimes when I do not answer it is because I am unsure of how much I can say, how much overwrought emotion I can show. Remaining stoic too lets me try and gain control of myself at times.


Hello cjenny. Very true. We often talk about a dom/domme's styles but subs have their own 'styles' as well. My sub is a 'stoic', I do not expect tears, outcries and the such in punishment. I should not expect lively conversation when she is being dressed down either. RL.

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/17/2007 9:35:26 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: robertolapiedra

We agree. But if for the sub the experience is the same as in a 'most severe discipline scene' having the effect of sending you to (or near) subspace? You may not even be 'physically' able to speak. That is why I do not expect a verbal response. Often when you have one, it is not always that coherent (gagaland). There is always tomorrow for a nice philosophical intelligent conversation. Yes?


First, thank you for your post, Roberto.  Just a few short (hopefully) added thoughts.

I understand the slurring in subspace, no doubt.  The OP did say, however, that the Master did request a response, which makes it disobedient to not at least try.  Even if it's, as I've been known to do, waving a hand to the throat and slurring like a drunkard that I can't talk...heh.  But my training has been that when asked a question, I do my best to answer.  I do understand there are different dynamics and expectations, however.  I was merely relaying my own. 

As for philosophical intelligent conversations, well I agree that would be quite the challenge.  But when asked what I am thinking, I am typically able to formulate something...even if it's garbled :)


quote:


The japanese style of reprimanding or dressing down is very,very,very 'humiliation' based. The other old styles? Very,very,very fear based! The doms in those days could punish you severely ('real' punishment) just for the hell of it and subspace was not a particularely understood 'item' then, nor warm up periods! As for safe words? That is a modern contemporary innovation, if you said 'stop' to a dom you were punished for saying this. The sadistic aspect was more at the front then. In general, subs then did not have piercings nor tattoos (in books yes!) and they were scarred all over after a few years (which made them even prettier in the eyes of the sadist set). That's what I'm referring  to when I speak of severity and magnitude. In some contexts, it is smart to say nothing when you are being dressed down. RL.



I appreciate the education on this.  The OP did note they were "loosely based" on this style, so we don't really know how intense the dressing down was.  But this was interesting information that you posted, and I enjoyed reading it.  I am quite familiar with rather severe humiliation and degradation, although I must confess I am relieved my dear owner is not a sadist of the physical nature.  But as for it being "smart to say nothing" I do believe that depends on the Master at hand.  In the OPs case, the Master was asking a direct question and not answered.  Then again, this could very well be a training issue and nothing more. My original point is that to me, it really seems up to him to decide what to do in this case.

Although I do like the posted idea of the alpha slave kneeling and responding.  It shows a great sense of bonding, training, and care.

This has been an interesting thread to me.  :)

(in reply to robertolapiedra)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/17/2007 10:49:55 PM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		> These types of dressing downs are designed to produce shame
Shame is a form of fear, as humiliation.

> that is a type of hiearchy that I live and thrive in
I hope you find fulfillment in a fear based relationship.

>Fear within the realms of BDSM play a very big part.
I accept that Fear is a very big part for you. However In my experience, most other people engage in BDSM activities for greater intimacy, love, honesty, self truth, and connection. -- not FEAR. Typically, those with fear based paraphillias have fear based relationships with their parents.

>you shouldn't be addressing it with her or anyone else
>your wrapped up in a problem that really has nothing to do with you?
This was invited by the person who asked for advice. Otherwise, How could I even know?
Perhaps you should stop criticizing those who answer the questions actully asked?

The fact that I have pushed some buttone here is a clear indication that these are real issues for many people. The point is to accept yourself, be yourself, Love yourself, and not be defined by another person. When one comes from a place of strength as self-will and free choice, then another's doubt of that is easily dismissed. Surrender is from strength, not weakness. Get that, and you will get much more of the control-surrender dynamic.

(in reply to aldompdx)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/18/2007 12:49:45 AM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline 		Hello ownedgirlie. What I have said by no means invalidates what a dom wants in dressing down. If he wants verbal coherent response, he has to know it is difficult for a sub to do so (even more difficult for most male subs). It has to be trained into the sub depending first on the sub's natural talent for this and on the context or level of intensity of the scene. If the sub hits subspace too fast, there are techniques for keeping the sub from going down. Or if the dom permits the entry in gagaland, there are techniques for bringing the sub up from there more rapidely (bucket of ice water? no, I'm kidding!). It may be a prefered training point for the dom, but not a required one if one is speaking of the 'Art'. (any old guard out there?)

In my style, which I admit is a little 'classic' there is a different time and instance for reprimand, punishment and what in french is called 'retour' (literally 'return'), a discussion the next day (or later even) of what was understood, learned and very importantly, what was felt.

As I said in another post, my sub is a stoic. She is not safe in a 'severe' context as she will endure 'breakage' and will not use her safe word or signal (no, she is not a pain slut, she's kind of a 'Zen' type that keeps near subspace, hard to describe...). When she 'is' in gagaland, I have time to do my income tax before she starts being coherent again. She just answers what comes to mind and it always comes out like: yes yes, I do not know, what? whatever you 'said'? or say? (I once asked her what day it was, she replied "the day after monday?"). Too much training for me, I wait for the next day to do the 'retour'. I'm lazy , but that's me. RL.

PS: Forgot about the 'at least show effort' thingie. When a sub is on her/his knees, head bowed down to recieve reprimand, it takes a very big 'effort' to do this...asking for more seems superfluous to me. I would never punish a sub for not being able to respond in that context.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/18/2007 1:52:18 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		In response to  no one in particular:

I think it must also  be remembered that there are times when processing what's been said is more appropriate than answering the first thing that pops into someone's head.

An example:

There was one time I was dressed down. It happened in front of people. I was very VERY upset. I was upset PRIOR to that moment. The person I was with at that time asked for my thoughts. I answered what I believed were my thoughts. What they were however, were my knee-jerk responses to what was happening. Those knee-jerk responses were NOT my real thoughts. Those took days to process and make sense to me. When they did, I asked for some time to discuss what had happened.

Even if the dynamic in a household is one way, it seems there will always be times when an individual's personal circumstances are going to come into play. The simple truth may be that at that moment, she really does have nothing to say. She is thinking of nothing beyond listening to the person who is reprimanding her. She may be knee-jerking inside and need the time to be able to put a rational thought together. It may be a lot of things, but asking someone to voice their thoughts after being shamed (if this indeed is, as some people have suggested, a shame based reprimand style) is really setting the person being reprimanded up for additional failure. And interestingly, that may not even be the intent of the person doing the reprimanding even as it may be the reality of the person being reprimanded.

The things my dominant at that time learned from my reprimand (and the things I looked for in someone else because I knew myself better after this experience):

1) Talk to me. I learn best if you simply let me know what I did wrong - in an emotion free tone of voice. Information is far better for me than reprimand - even if it is a reprimand.

2) Reprimand privately. Reprimands are more effective as a learning tool if the reprimand takes place in private. Heck, I learned that from my mother and father. Reprimands are private. Praise is public. That is, if learning is your goal. Even amongst us kids, any reprimands that they ever had to issue took place in private. And they focused on the reprimand, not on making anyone feel shamed by what had happened.

3) Give time for processing. It'll benefit the relationship far better than thinking that the person can answer immediately. Set a date and time if need be, to discuss what happened - specifically any thoughts the submissive might have had - and then stick to that date and time.

I know that with my Master now, if he's upset about something I've done, he'll tell me what it is and give me time to think about it. We bring it back up the next day or the day after to talk about what he's said. We discuss it until it's either resolved or one or both of us is getting upset. If we're upset, we table what we're talking about until both of us are calm and we bring it up again. We do this until we've resolved whatever situation is happening. Sometimes, it takes a moment to take care of. Sometimes (one time) it took six months for us to work everything out so sufficiently enough so that we could move  on with no resentment clouding the next situation that may arrive.

But demanding that someone "tell what they're thinking" after being put on the defensive, to me, only invite defensive maneuvering and if the goal of the dominant is for the submissive to actually UNDERSTAND what has happened, some processing time just might be in order.

Just something to think about.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 5/18/2007 2:06:00 AM >

(in reply to robertolapiedra)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/18/2007 3:31:17 AM   
Mellissande


Posts: 435
Joined: 4/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthycouple

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveish

I do not know the protocol for the model you're talking about, but perhaps her sister on her knees on the floor next to her, speaking quietly to her Master, telling him how she herself has failed, setting a strong and good example of what is desired.

... or ... Master punishing the alpha for the other slave's failure. It works with my sister and me - we protect each other and do not want to be the cause of punishment for the other. 


Did you even read the question?  How can that help?



exactly besides sounds to me like that would breed resentment, I remeber when i was younger my mom used to use the "One effects the other rule" which ment if one of us misbehaved we all faced the penalties(usualy when we where promised soemething like going some where special that would get taken away if we didnt behave befor whatever it was) and whiles sometimes it worked most of the time it just stoped us from tattling and other times made us fight more because we resented the others getting us in trouble. It is hard enough beeing responsable for your own behavior let alone beeing made responsable for someone els's aspecially when you cant controll or arent responsable for and have no athority to controll the other person!!


Magik's slave

You have to remember though, Gothique IS in control of her master's slave. She is the AlphaSub and is responsible for the other slave. Like Slavish was saying about the sisters together talking to the Master... She is saying that Gothique should help the other girl to speak, And help her to understand what her master is asking. Or if it were to so move the other girl. Maybe she should be forced to watch Gothique recieve punishment. Most subs and slaves will Adjust their behaviour when they realize that what they do will get another punished and not themselves

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/18/2007 6:19:00 AM   
PeggyO


Posts: 129
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

2) Reprimand privately. Reprimands are more effective as a learning tool if the reprimand takes place in private. Heck, I learned that from my mother and father. Reprimands are private. Praise is public. That is, if learning is your goal. Even amongst us kids, any reprimands that they ever had to issue took place in private. And they focused on the reprimand, not on making anyone feel shamed by what had happened.



Hello,

Actually, in the Japanese model under which I live, reprimands can and frequently do happen publicly because the reprimand is given at the time of the offense.  In my house, the most frequent punishment that accompanies a reprimand is physical exercise - sit ups and push ups.  I have done push ups in restaurants, airports, by the side of the road, in shopping malls - pretty much anywhere.  It's a different teaching style.  But one of the things it does teach is to enable the person to bypass the shame and focus on not making the mistake again.  I used to get really upset about doing push ups in public.  Now it doesn't bother me in the least.  For some it may be better to be reprimanded privately, however it doesn't mean that private reprimanded is de facto a more effective learning tool.

Be well,

Peggy

(in reply to julietsierra)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Slave behavior that irritates - 5/18/2007 7:16:05 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeggyO

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

2) Reprimand privately. Reprimands are more effective as a learning tool if the reprimand takes place in private. Heck, I learned that from my mother and father. Reprimands are private. Praise is public. That is, if learning is your goal. Even amongst us kids, any reprimands that they ever had to issue took place in private. And they focused on the reprimand, not on making anyone feel shamed by what had happened.



Hello,

Actually, in the Japanese model under which I live, reprimands can and frequently do happen publicly because the reprimand is given at the time of the offense.  In my house, the most frequent punishment that accompanies a reprimand is physical exercise - sit ups and push ups.  I have done push ups in restaurants, airports, by the side of the road, in shopping malls - pretty much anywhere.  It's a different teaching style.  But one of the things it does teach is to enable the person to bypass the shame and focus on not making the mistake again.  I used to get really upset about doing push ups in public.  Now it doesn't bother me in the least.  For some it may be better to be reprimanded privately, however it doesn't mean that private reprimanded is de facto a more effective learning tool.

Be well,

Peggy


Hmmmmmmm...this thread gets more interesting each time I come back to it.  I agree with both points of view:  private reprimands work best for those submissives who cannot/will not have this aspect of their dynamic showcased in public.  There can be reasons for this ranging the chance of the wrong people observing this and questioning her about it (her supervisor from work, for example, who just happens to be in the store when the submissive starts doing push-ups for no discernible...to the supervisor...reason) to hard limits against public humiliation of any sort.  Public reprimands work best for those submissives working within the mindset of someone like Peggy whose dynamic...in this aspect, at least,  i.e. offense = punishment...could be stated to be "anytime....anywhere".  (I know it is more complex than that, Peggy....just shortened it for clarity's sake on the point)

(in reply to PeggyO)
Profile   Post #: 60
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