RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses

RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion

Message

ExSteelAgain -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/21/2007 7:14:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows quote: ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain quote: ORIGINAL: MistressDoMe Many men are preying on women here. Some have both Dominant and submissive profiles. You would be surprised the Dominant men here that approach Dominant women wanting to explore their submissive side. Many women are preying on men here. Some have both Dominant and submissive profiles. You would be surprised the Dominant women here that approach Dominant men wanting to explore their submissive side. Many people are preying on people here. Some have both Dominant and submissive profiles. You would be surprised the submissive men here that approach submissive women wanting them to explore their dominant side - and visa versa. [;)] Peace Exactly!

Mercnbeth -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/21/2007 7:14:09 AM)
quote: And you might be surprised that dominant women approach dominant men wanting to explore their submissive side... In fact, why is that such a shame? Not only is it not a shame it is honest. The problem is people associating the terms sadist/masochist with the labels Dominant/submissive. One is sensation driven, the other is a mental state of being. A hard core masochist can be very dominant, demanding sensations, and going as far in the detail as to demand how they will be inflicted. The sadist can enjoy inflicting those sensations, by submitting to the sensation demands. There is nothing to be implied as "wrong" or inappropriate in people getting together and partnering to achieve the goals of giving, and receiving sensations. Dominance and submission are not necessarily required. Some of the most dominant individuals I've met in LA are masochists, applying the self label 'submissive' who don't have a submissive aspect of their personality or their desired relationship dynamic. The same holds for those facilitating Dominants who agree to inflict the desired sensations in the manner demanded by the submissive. "Not that there is anything wrong with that."

dawntreader -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/21/2007 7:39:06 AM)
Greetings Quivver, What an excellent and thought provoking post! And the subsequent responses have had great value to me. i have experienced all of these things and wondered about them myself. Now, however, i see all my experiences as part of my particular journey and the journey has changed focus and become so much deeper than when it began..."know thyself" is the real pearl in all of this advice and being open to what the Universe will bring. Exchanging negative thought for positive - becoming whole not a half to be completed by another. Our approach to this "way of life" is key in what we will recieve. If we are trying to fill a need, we become desperate, wanting, disillusioned... i know this was true for me. When i realized, i was meeting my only real needs already (food, shelter, personal growth) and everything else became wants and desires, my perception changed. i could accept what the Universe started to bring into my life, knowing it would bring growth whether thru pleasure or pain. i also have embraced my own naivety and rose-colored glasses - they are my cushion for the realities that inevietibly present themselves... pax et lumina, pasha

Kana -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/21/2007 8:08:35 AM)
Expectations, what are those really? Is expecting words to become reality wrong? An expectation is a premeditated resentment. Is it wrong to expect words to be true? Perhaps, perhaps not. Over the years I have learned to listen less with my ears and more with my eyes. I hear the words people say, but I watch their actions. Their lips may lie, but the feet tell me the truth of who they are. I love your post, it touches on a number of things that I have discussed with others over the years. I am not sure of it as much naiveté as hope, the desire that wells within us, to be touched, to hold, to own and be owned, to slake that thirst which rages deep inside of us. The problem lies when the hope overcomes reality that can happen in all relationships, not just BDSM. I doubt that anyone cannot say that at least once they stayed in something far longer than they should have, out of the hope that it could be that which we once thought it was, and could be again. In the epicenter of an emotional hurricane it is oft difficult to discern with clarity. For me, I am careful. I am wary of those who rush into things, on either side. I watch the other person and see what they are about, not just externally, but inside as well. Can they build meaningful relationships with others in many areas of their lives. Are they honest, kind, considerate? I watch so many people rush headlong into things that are fraught with warning signs, only to be mangled in the process, I wonder at the strength that it takes to get up and continue trying. The Internet often amplifies this problem. We see that which the other chooses to expose. The tendency to see what we want to see exacerbates this. The rose colored lenses can hide the blemishes until it is too late and then an emotional attachment has begun. In our drive to find that which we seek, we make mistakes, we learn, we continue to grow and winnow through the harvest, narrowing our focus until we find that which we seek and learn not to settle. Good luck, Kana

subinside -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/21/2007 8:17:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Quivver I know for myself I have rationalized too many wrongs over time. I have believed words over action for longer then I care to admit. I have found myself a Bottom for a Top when I thought I had a Dominant who said they wanted a Sub. I have invested myself and found my words ignored as I have ached for use and guidance just like so many others have. Only to hear I need to stand up for myself which just feels wrong considering the dynamic we come here for. I understand the sentiment, yet when emotionally invested putting it to practice is so much harder when confronted with Dominant Tops who lack the Integrity and Honor that our Choir Sings. Oh my god... you just summed up everything i've been going through for the last month in one post. The only difference was i've known him for about 5 years and thought that we had a good foundation in friendship before anything ever started with us. Not only have i lost a lover and a future, but i've lost a friend... or at least.. the friend i thought he was. It is all too easy for folks on here, sub and Dom alike to pretend to be other than who they are. We need to remember that and question question question. If something sounds fishy, it probably is. If he doesn't want to acknowledge in his profile that you exist, he's probably keeping his options open. It's easy to be naive.. when you don't want to believe he could be acting/speaking falsely.

dawntreader -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/21/2007 8:50:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kana I love your post, it touches on a number of things that I have discussed with others over the years. ...In our drive to find that which we seek, we make mistakes, we learn, we continue to grow and winnow through the harvest, narrowing our focus until we find that which we seek and learn not to settle. Good luck, Kana And as always, i find a pearl in your words Kana :-)

SirDominic -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/21/2007 9:30:05 AM)
I hardly think that keeping it vanilla for a few months* is extreme.* You should do what you feel most comfortable with. If keeping it vanilla for a few months works for you, go for it. Namaste, Sir Dominic

MadRabbit -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/21/2007 10:29:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl quote: ORIGINAL: earthycouple quote: ORIGINAL: agirl quote: ORIGINAL: SirDominic If I have a question in all of this it would have to be, how is a Submissive who aches to serve keep their head about them and not be unsub like, even if that unsub like is only in their heads. One of the best pieces of advice I can offer is to Know Thyself; which goes for any form of relationship and life in general. The more you understand yourself, what your wants really are, what your needs really are. Really getting to know who you are will enable you to make a much more clear picture of what kind of person will best suit you. Secondly, don't rush into anything. When you meet someone, and it really seems to click, too many blindly accept the person on a superficial level, focusing rather on the excitement of the moment. Take some time to know each other. See that words and actions align. While I think MadRabbit's idea of keeping it vanilla for a few months is extreme, he does have the right idea. Thirdly, communication is important; several have said that. More importantly though is how you communicate. How comfortable are you and your partner saying the hard things to each other? The fun, easy stuff doesn't tell you anything. I had to teach my slave that she could truly tell me anything and trust that I would not have a negative reaction to it. This was so hard for her, and would be hard for many slaves as they so want approval from their Master, and so fear disappointing him. Honesty is crucial to a successful relationship, in this world or the vanilla one. You can't be honest only when it is easy, you have to be able to be honest when it is hard, and know you won't be belittled for it, or attacked because of it. There are a lot of very slick people out there of both sexes, and there can be no guarantee that despite your best efforts you won't be bamboozled. With the suggestions I outlined above, you have a much better chance of seeing through the crap. Namaste, Sir Dominic I hardly think that keeping it vanilla for a few months is extreme. agirl A few month is extreme in my opinion...in a few months you could fall in love with the vanilla stuff then when bdsm time comes you don't click at all....how the heck is that helping anything? You have to find a click on ALL levels to be fulfilled and happy. Even if that click is "I don't like that my he leaves socks on the floor, but I can accept that" I don't need bdsm to recognise whether someone is dominant, or suited to me.....that will be there and it will show, with or without bdsm. I don't need to see their box of tricks and props. Personally, I don't need to try out obeying or try out bdsm with them, to know whether I would be inspired to, and if I don't respect and like the person as a MAN, then no amount of bdsm is going to alter that. A few months invested in exporing each other as people, without the FOCUS and thrust being bdsm doesn't seem too difficult to me. Lots of people have problems when they realise they have to take the whole MAN, not just his bdsm...... because when they were looking and aching, that's exactly where their focus was. agirl See...when I made my opinion, I wasnt talking so much about BDSM, but rather a solid M/S or D/S authority dynamic that is based on "You must obey me!". I dont really think you should wait a few months to do BDSM based things, no more than I feal you should wait a few months to have sex. And thats not to say that you cant have a very casual authority dynamic even when your in the "vanilla" stage. You say "Lets go to the movies!" and she says "Yes, sir!". But if she says "No, I want to go get ice cream!", the relationship doesnt automatically screech to a halt and disband because she disobeyed him. I'm talking about waiting a few months before you start signing contracts, locking on the collars, and drawing a line in the sand that says "Disobey me and we're done!" as opposed to just a week. I think these relationships are a growing progress that should start off very equalitarian and move forward as the trust and respect grows. The real trouble is when people start to form these M/S dynamics overnight. People lose perspective, the slave feals pressure to be a "good slave" when this person she doesnt even know too well is making very questionable demands, and Mr. Perfect turns out to be Mr. Asshole. Three months is more than ample time to get past the "Honeymoon stage" and really start to learn about the other person. And if you keep your head about you, its possible to have a very casual D/S dynamic without the pressure. I refuse to draw up a contract or start making lines in the sand until I have had ample time to see what the other person's REAL personality is like, what their personal habits are like when they spend a weekend with me, what their interest in movies is, and what really makes them tick as far as what they want out of the relationship. Some might call this the "Under Consideration" period, but I prefer to call it just simply dating and keep it casual and layed back.

Texy -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/21/2007 12:42:33 PM)
To the OP. I'm an artist. When I paint, I have a particular vision in my head of what I want to achieve on a canvas, an end goal or picture. As I paint, something takes over and to be honest, sometimes I only achieve 60% of that first vision..but that doesn't mean the end result is crap. I learned long ago that there is someone that loves me and everything I do artistically and otherwise. And that person would tell me, "honeychild, you know I loves you, just the way you are." So I paint for her, every stroke, doodle, line, dot. I paint for her, I paint for the one that loves me and a result of that is that whether anyone else loves it or not, I have expressed what was inside of me and I'm pleased. And believe it not, I do manage to sell a few paintings with that attitude. Being new to the lifestyle, at first I didn't know what was bs or not. I read everything I could, but still had no concept of what was fantasy and what was real life. I did everything wrong at first...and finally decided to take the bull by the horns so to speak. This was my journey and I wanted to take the steps to ensure I would be on the right track. The only thing that helped me with that was meeting people in real time at a munch, talking to them, asking about their first experiences and listening. I will say, in real time I can tell when people being honest with me about their experiences. Do I know their motives? I can tell in real time, yes about 90% of the time. There are certain indicators, and I know them from my vanilla experiences. I found some people I get on with, and this month joined a group in Dallas that I am comfortable with and enjoy and trust. So once a month, it's a 7 hour drive or an hour plane flight, but nothing beats real experience for me. Today, I do know more about what I want and what I don't want. I do want someone I click with, because I am realizing that I can't serve everyone and just anyone won't fulfill that desire for serving with happiness. So in my experience there are certain factors that cut to the chase pretty quickly: 1) If I hear "back on the chain gang" by the pretenders or "No Scrub" by tlc when I'm talking to a Dom/me, I am not the sub for them. (Yes, this actually happens for me and at my last much I met a Mistress where I heard "ring of fire" playing in my head. I ran btw ;-) ) 2) If they ask me to get a webcam without offering for me to first look at their webcam, I am not the sub for them. 3) If I say I'm not ready to send person info yet because I'm uncomfortable and they give me a hard time in any way, I am not the sub for them. 4) If they do not laugh or smile during inital contact or shortly thereafter, I am not the sub for them. Yes, I want someone with a sense of humor and enjoys living life. 5) If they want to own me or meet in person after a few emails, I am not the sub for them. I do tell them if they want to meet me where I go for munches. 6) If they do not talk about something besides bdsm in those first getting to know you emails, I am not the sub for them. 7) If they want to hear my fantasies in the first few emails, I am not the sub for them. 8) If given something to do, and I agree, I sometimes go back and ask for it again, because well, I say it's the artist side of me but truthfully I'm abit dingy at times in real life and can get distracted by whatever cool is going on, and I also want to know how they react. Dom/me test, especially in real life, and quite frankly I test as well. To your question, how do I stay the course? By daily contact with real people that live this lifestyle daily. The boring as well as the fantasy intertwined into what is called real life. I'm still newish, still make mistakes, take things to heart a bit too much sometimes, but I try not to sweat it as much today. I hope I do not ever settle for anything less than what my heart desires which is someone I can serve happily, completely, totally. And for me, that means there has to be a connection with that person. I don't have the expectation anymore that it will happen online, as I've said, real time was a big eye opener for me. If it does, that's cool, but I don't expect it today. Thanks for posting! gayle

leatherette -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/21/2007 1:58:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Quivver If I have a question in all of this it would have to be, how is a Submissive who aches to serve keep their head about them and not be unsub like, even if that unsub like is only in their heads. I know exactly what you mean. I have had this "clueless streak" in the past. It hurt, oh yeah - broke my heart times 2! Still on the mend... but feel and relate to your words, Quivver BTW-I posted right away, my apologies for not reading other's replies first. Went back to read. Ty, so many bright people here! For me: there is no blame. I am far past anger. My anger was confusion. Will I be brave enough again - to just live and love...? Yes, even with those rose colored glasses.

LadyPaige -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/23/2007 1:03:53 AM)
I entered the lifestyle as a submissive. I was lucky to have a good Dom and a mentor who taught me that I should expect certain things from my Dominant. I couldn't tell you how many "Doms" I met on-line, then in person who told me "If you were really submissive...." This usually involved them wanting to try my oral skills out on a first meeting or thinking I shouldn't have limits. Frankly I don't consider them Dominants, I consider them players. You have every right to expect "Your" Dom to meet certain standards, and if he doesn't, then he isn't the one you want to be "Your" Dom.

eyesopened -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/23/2007 3:10:04 AM)
Looking through rose-colored glasses tints the view while looking through mud-encrusted glasses obscures the view entirely. i'd rather the former than the later.

Quivver -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/23/2007 3:28:20 AM)
Awe ... isnt it wonderful to feed the Polyanna that lives in us all! I have to agree with you to some extent. The rose tint is hopefull. Too much Mudd causes us to become Jaded. can i borrow your windex? [;)] quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened Looking through rose-colored glasses tints the view while looking through mud-encrusted glasses obscures the view entirely. i'd rather the former than the later.

slaveish -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/23/2007 8:46:44 AM)
Too much rose causes the same thing, Quivver. If our glasses are too much one color than the other, it eventually leads to the same thing: jade. Strive for clarity of vision. Reach for wisdom.

shyinini -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/23/2007 9:33:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Quivver I suppose this is a bit of a rant, somewhat long, but I feel it's something that is behind many of the questions that come to our boards. I realize there is no solid answer, that each individual and each relationship is unique, but if nothing else it's food for thought. While reading threads this past week it dawned on me that many Submissive are Naïve, myself included at times. On a personal level this surprises me. Normally in my Nilla world all my bells and whistles are in working order and I am rarely taken in. It is here, or maybe I should say in a more personal relationship that I slip and become very near sighted while I fall for Bull Shit. Bull Shit over “looks don’t matter” is one of the posts that got me thinking how many Submissive are near sighted to their relationships. These boards are Fantastic, I have grown so much just by reading them over the years. BUT………… as I said in that thread “we here on the boards preach to a choir that know the words and sing along even if at times in a different note” what I meant by that is all too often what we preach here is from a Perfect World where the Dominants have Honor and Integrity even if not perfect themselves and Submissives/Slaves are expected to be wise and obedient. Reality is a different Dog. Few on our boards when compared to the general kinky crowd have the kind of relationship that many strive for. While striving to emulate those good ones the rest of us make a lot of mistakes mostly due to being Naïve, at least in interpersonal relationships. Please keep in mind that I am speaking from the mind set of a Submissive who has sought that blend rather then just play. The hurdles I have ran into are no different then what many others have. We meet a Dominant that does Rock our World (note: not all do) and settle into that getting to know you stage. While in that stage and trying to learn what pleases them many times we fail to remember our own needs as we push them onto a back burner. It’s in this stage where we fall harder and delude ourselves. How many Sub’s come here for advice after things go south only to hear communication is paramount, don’t be a doormat, walk away if it’s bad or your needs are not being met. When in reality they began investing themselves in that get to know you stage not to mention that many times holding firm to our needs feels selfish and very unsub like. Only to be met with the choir singing the praises of the good pairings. Granted, those good pairings may have started in the same way, and communication worked. Yet often we fail to remember there are some damn good manipulators out there who prey on Naïve to get their rocks off. The Sub’s then show up here asking why they feel unfulfilled, unwanted, unused and maybe a bit abused. And it’s those Sub’s who disappear as quickly as they show up. A couple of us (me) stay around and continue to read. I know for myself I have rationalized too many wrongs over time. I have believed words over action for longer then I care to admit. I have found myself a Bottom for a Top when I thought I had a Dominant who said they wanted a Sub. I have invested myself and found my words ignored as I have ached for use and guidance just like so many others have. Only to hear I need to stand up for myself which just feels wrong considering the dynamic we come here for. I understand the sentiment, yet when emotionally invested putting it to practice is so much harder when confronted with Dominant Tops who lack the Integrity and Honor that our Choir Sings. If I have a question in all of this it would have to be, how is a Submissive who aches to serve keep their head about them and not be unsub like, even if that unsub like is only in their heads. Q, if I could summarize what we are going through with a woman we are mentoring, it would be what you have written. Sir has his thoughts, ideas and set opinions on these issues. He is very careful to ask me what I know, think and my opinions on these issues. My friend is a newb for sure. She is even a in a dysfucntional marriage and she doesn even seem to know what she really wants interanlly or needs and tries to pick my brain which is VERY different than hers. Externally, she wants control, someone to take her down and make her "feel" submissive." but in the long run she wants what we (Sir and I) have. Sir told me she may or may not ever get to where I am or better yet, to where she wants to go. I am empathetic to your heart and mind as you expressed yourself. There are no fast replies or no fast remedies or no solutions set in stone. Like Sir said, if you are not together internally, you can go on playing but the internal needs and wants will never be met until you have the right D type to match your s type.

Quivver -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/23/2007 2:34:17 PM)
Actually Shyinini my words are not curent words. This isnt something going on in my life right now at all! What sparked this post is I have found myself in a position of mentoring another myself. The circumstances dont matter as much as how her words have echoed in my ears all the things I have/had/and gone through. All her conserns, actions, fear, pain and confusion made my past light back up and replay for me. I've talked her into joining us, but I assume she will stay hidden in the ranks for a while. I learned so much from being here these last couple years. Which is why I started this thread to begin with. I knew she and I were not alone. Again, thank you all for all the wonderful replies! quote: ORIGINAL: shyinini Q, if I could summarize what we are going through with a woman we are mentoring, it would be what you have written. Sir has his thoughts, ideas and set opinions on these issues. He is very careful to ask me what I know, think and my opinions on these issues. My friend is a newb for sure. She is even a in a dysfucntional marriage and she doesn even seem to know what she really wants interanlly or needs and tries to pick my brain which is VERY different than hers. Externally, she wants control, someone to take her down and make her "feel" submissive." but in the long run she wants what we (Sir and I) have. Sir told me she may or may not ever get to where I am or better yet, to where she wants to go. I am empathetic to your heart and mind as you expressed yourself. There are no fast replies or no fast remedies or no solutions set in stone. Like Sir said, if you are not together internally, you can go on playing but the internal needs and wants will never be met until you have the right D type to match your s type.

Firebirdseeking -> RE: Naive Submissives ... the pit falls of Rose Colored Glasses (5/28/2007 5:17:34 PM)
Hi, Quiver: I was married for 25 years and since being on my own for 5 years now, the most surprising thing to me is how shitty people can be, even people I have trusted and thought they were worthy of my trust. Its very disheartening and hurtful. But - we have to find a way to not let these individuals bring us to their level and keep our spirits full of light.

Page: << < prev 1 2 3 [4]

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875