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no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 1:06:22 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		There have been so many debates about what is a sub what is a slave what is a bottom what is a Dom or Master or Top and it seems there are as many different definitions as there are people, Everyone says it depends on the people and what they call themselves to define it for themselves, But i ask you when do these words just simply lose any meaning at all. When you have as many definitions as people the words begin to mean nothing at all, Labels are no good because one persons slave is anothers sub and one persons Master is a Top to another, and then you get words like fake and wannabe thrown out because these people who label themselves these ways do not measure up to the definition someone els personally gives the word. I think  this breeds a lot of animosity amongst the community. I mean how many threads have there been in the last few weeks alone about Fakes and wannabes not to mention the number of threads asking what the difference between sub and slave is. The only thing we can seem to agree on is that these words have no definition at all and there for in my opinion are meaningless and rather worthless to us as a group trying to find a way to define ourselves so that we can match up with our perfect other half!!

Magik's slave

< Message edited by MagiksSlave -- 5/20/2007 1:09:05 PM >

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-


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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 1:35:51 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

There have been so many debates about what is a sub what is a slave what is a bottom what is a Dom or Master or Top and it seems there are as many different definitions as there are people, Everyone says it depends on the people and what they call themselves to define it for themselves, But i ask you when do these words just simply lose any meaning at all. When you have as many definitions as people the words begin to mean nothing at all, Labels are no good because one persons slave is anothers sub and one persons Master is a Top to another, and then you get words like fake and wannabe thrown out because these people who label themselves these ways do not measure up to the definition someone els personally gives the word. I think  this breeds a lot of animosity amongst the community. I mean how many threads have there been in the last few weeks alone about Fakes and wannabes not to mention the number of threads asking what the difference between sub and slave is. The only thing we can seem to agree on is that these words have no definition at all and there for in my opinion are meaningless and rather worthless to us as a group trying to find a way to define ourselves so that we can match up with our perfect other half!!

Magik's slave


The words lose meaning when we start to think on too large of a scale outside of ourselves.

My definitions have meaning to me. They are how I categorize people in an attempt to provide some order and sense to things. My definitions, however, are only relevant to me and my experiences.

I can say...well this person is a bottom to me and this person is a submissive. This is simply how I view them. Whats important to remember is that these are solely my views and dont apply outside of myself.

The drama starts when people start to take a One True Wayism approach and forget that how they see things isnt necessarily how the next person sees them. That they are always right and everyone else is always wrong.

I can see someone as a bottom and that person can see themselves as a slave. It would be wrong and flawed of me to take the standpoint that they are wrong about their own self imposed label and claim they are not in fact a slave when I see them as a bottom.

Labels are very useful and have valid meaning when kept in the scope of each individual. Its when people start to go outside of that scope and start to apply the labels to other people with a One True Wayism mentality that it becomes a problem.

Sure, we can all come up with 40 different definitions for the word Master, but each definition has meaning to the invididual becauce it allows them to define and summarize their own path and experiences. You just have to remember that your path isnt the same as the next persons.

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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 1:45:52 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		I'm kind of with you on this.  I don't pay alot of attention to how people describe themselves in words, but wait and see what they do.  Sometimes theres a contradiction between word and deed that's intolerable to me (and I emphasize the subjective nature of it all) and other times there's a contradiction between word and deed that's wonderful.  Some oversell themselves and disapoint, while others undersell themselves and surprise.

Mostly, I pay attention to what side of the slash someone likes to hang out on and whether what they're looking for meshes with what I'm looking for and then see how things work in practice.  I do tend to avoid people who identify as Masters on the assumption that they're going to want a deeper level of commitment than I'm prepared to give right now.

I try to stay focused on pragmatics, rather than get all tied up in trying to figure out lables.  In otherwords, they're pretty meaningless terms.


< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 5/20/2007 1:47:52 PM >

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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 1:46:33 PM   
spanklette


Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline 		The words lose meaning when they are all that we hear.
 
If I'm not listening to what they're point of view is, then I have given too much credence to a word. Generally, for me, communication involves many words...typed or spoken. I can come to understand why they label themselves the way that they do, even if it doesn't fit my own definition.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 2:00:55 PM   
ToysAndTies


Posts: 124
Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline 		If the purpose of language is to provide words that people can use to substitute for ideas and principles so that they can discuss the two of these outside of their own heads, then words whose meanings are entirely personal or subjective are completely useless.  However, if the use of a word in any way reduces ambiguity about an idea,  (for example, to say "slave" as opposed to "kinkster" eliminates the idea of a Master at least) then it is at least somewhat productive.

Why unending threads about semantics continue, and are as numerous each time I come back to CM though months apart baffles me.  I think people need common ground to feel a connection.  As much as we love to profess our individuality, we want to be part of something bigger than ourselves to do that.

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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 2:07:18 PM   
earthycouple


Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline 		Why do we care what the definition of sub, slave, bottom, top or dominant is between another couple?  Why do we care how others define anything?   I look at my sofa and I say it is olive green, someone else may say it is drab green.  WHO CARES? 

If YOU give meaning to something then it has meaning.  I call Robert my slave but quite truthfully he is neither slave nor sub.  He's a conglomerate of both with a little of this and a little of that thrown in.  What matters is he and I know who we are to each other.  I couldn't care less what a room full of people lable themselves as. 

You find out what these things mean to you, share the definition with your special or potential special person and work it out together.


_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 2:09:29 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		and the whole point of this post is?

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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 2:10:37 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		It's really difficult to have a conversation or a relationship with someone when you're both speaking different languages..that is why our constant craving for definitions exist I think. So I guess, the only real purpose to exchanging definitions is so that we can 'relate' to where another person is coming from, it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how we ourselves give meaning to things.

< Message edited by slavejali -- 5/20/2007 2:16:38 PM >

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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 2:17:34 PM   
astarri


Posts: 265
Joined: 4/22/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with Mad Rabbit on this one though to expand upon it more ... please give me your definition of success.
Your definition and my definition may not be exact.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 2:22:20 PM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		oh, there are very precise meanings as to what each word means but it seems today that if you are not a Master... then you fall way below par & being a top places you at pond scum level.... same thing with the other, slaves outshine any other rank & if you aren't striving to be just that then your submission is basically a dismal failing compared to their intensity & commitment... you bottoms are just wannabe/neverbes & should be completely shunned

OH PAAAAAAAAAAALLLLEEEESE

There is no need to fall victim to this type of scrutiny

Tops & bottoms enjoying a scene are just as real & viable within all of this as those who live, eat & breath this 24/7

The meanings have become blurred because many people have been made to feel ashamed of not measuring up to those who place themselves up on pedestals.

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 5/20/2007 2:23:17 PM >

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MstrssPassion


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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 2:23:42 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

and the whole point of this post is?


Does it need a point other then I was curiouse other peoples take on it?? What is the perpose of any thread.. what was the perpose of your post other then to be condisending??

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to IrishMist)
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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 2:25:01 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

oh, there are very precise meanings as to what each word means but it seems today that if you are not a Master... then you fall way below par & being a top places you at pond scum level.... same thing with the other, slaves outshine any other rank & if you aren't striving to be just that then your submission is basically a dismal failing compared to their intensity & commitment... you bottoms are just wannabe/neverbes & should be completely shunned

OH PAAAAAAAAAAALLLLEEEESE

There is no need to fall victim to this type of scrutiny

Tops & bottoms enjoying a scene are just as real & viable within all of this as those who live, eat & breath this 24/7

The meanings have become blurred because many people have been made to feel ashamed of not measuring up to those who place themselves up on pedestals.


Oh You are totaly right and I have seen a lot of this on these baords alone.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to MstrssPassion)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 3:03:48 PM   
BlindDescent


Posts: 113
Joined: 9/26/2006
Status: offline 		Well said MstrssPassion!  I didn't realize there was a grading system or report card we all had to ummm sumbit to. Those who cling too tightly to narrow definitions often tend to come across as rather constipated. We are all unique complex universes interacting with other equally complex and unique entities. Those parts of us which touch physically, emotionally or intellectually; intuitively look for themes that match in others. It is our nature to seek  those of our own. Friend or foe...fight or flight. It is written deep in our genetic survival code. It serves scant purpose to masturbate endlessly about the minutia of definitions or rightness of path. Just be open to positive possibilities and amazing things can happen. I  refuse to be defined by others, I suggest others avoid mental constipation traps as well. There is far more to manifesting who we are than name tagging or finger pointing. I really could care less how many toys one has or how many bruises one collects. Those are things. Things are simply things. They are not you. You are the sum total of every breath/ thought/ deed/ bite/ motion/ perception/ choice or lack therof you have ever made. So there.
Were I forced to identify my traits...Paradoxically dominant  erotic sensualist  empathic spiritualist ...among many others. Why limit one's exploration of being?

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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 5:11:39 PM   
ready4srvce4all


Posts: 767
Joined: 3/9/2007
Status: offline 		The labels are within the relationship, not outside...and the intent of what each feels their role is important...there isn't a checklist or a sub versus slave test...and in the end, what difference does it make? are they happy?

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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 5:34:44 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ready4srvce4all

The labels are within the relationship, not outside...and the intent of what each feels their role is important...there isn't a checklist or a sub versus slave test...and in the end, what difference does it make? are they happy?



I wasnt meaning within a relatioship i was meaning those looking for one have trouble because they have different deanitions of the same word and then you get things like wanabe and fake tossed in the mix.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to ready4srvce4all)
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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 5:37:39 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		You'll never reach a consensus on what "love" means either and that debate has been raging for millennia, does that mean we can never use the term in a meaningful way, for ourselves or between others?

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 5:48:31 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Umm.. maybe that is why communication between people BEFORE they commit is a wise idea.  I don't generally care what Joe Blow calls himself, or what he calls the hole he uses.  Unless I plan to get to know Joe, up close and personal, he could call himself wombat or master, its all the same to me.  Likewise it really doesn't matter to me if my definition causes anomosity in the community.  I cannot be held accountable for someone I do not know having hurt feelings or upsets because our definitions do not match.  I figure we are adults here.  And if not adult maybe some shouldn't be doing this.
That said I do use an anti label.  I am in no way a slave.  I make sure that is known up front so that all the master types fall by the wayside.  It isn't important to me what the general public thinks of me.  It is only important that anyone I am considering, or is considering me, knows what I cannot be, by my choice.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
Labels are no good because one persons slave is anothers sub and one persons Master is a Top to another, and then you get words like fake and wannabe thrown out because these people who label themselves these ways do not measure up to the definition someone els personally gives the word. I think  this breeds a lot of animosity amongst the community.


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 6:10:43 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		I know how I define myself and how Master does. I respect others definitions even though I may not agree with it. I stopped worrying what others think a long time ago. It isn't worth the trouble to get upset over what strangers online may think about me.

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Sir Pain's pain slut

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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 6:51:57 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		These words carry meaning to me, and I try to keep it simple in my mind.

Slaves/Masters/Mistress applies to TPE (total power exchange) involving submission.
Submissives/Dom/Dommes applies to PPE (partial power exchange) be it through submission or deferment.

top = is the person doing something to somebody regardless of D/s role.
bottom = the person on the recieving end from the top regardless of D/s role.
topping from the bottom =  the bottom is in control of the person topping.

"top and bottom play" is done through consent, be it submission or deferment.

For instance a Master has a slave give him a back massage.  The Master is the bottom and the slave is the top.  If the Master instructs the slave exactly what to do then this is "topping from the bottom", if the Master simply wants to lay there and allows the slave freedom of action in giving the massage, they are giving the slave temporary control over the activity using deferment.  The master can take control at any point they desire. 

Now If a Dom/me passed complete control over to a submissive using submission then the Dom/me becomes the submissive and the submissive becomes the Dom/me for a period of time, Hence the word "Switch".   Not only can people switch roles in BDSM scene play, this can be done with relationship dynamics as well.   All it means, is that two people take turns with one another in their roles.

What is interesting is the D/s relationship dynamics may be totally different verses scene play D/s dyanamics.  Where one partner is the Dom/me in the relationship itself, however is complely submissive in the bedroom and for scene play.  My mind get's a little fuzzy about how to label this.. I tend to view these people as switches because they swap roles with one another.

This is simply what the meaning of these labels or words are to me today.  My future experiences and interactions with people may alter these meanings or not.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
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RE: no meaning at all - 5/20/2007 7:18:51 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Fortunately, I don’t have a dim-witted professor calling me in to defend my thesis of my take on D/s. I graduated….barely.

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

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