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RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 12:30:51 AM

CrazyC

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Thanks for starting this thread. I have myself been trying to figure out how a relationship would work with a switch. One who needs to be both the Dom and the bottom. Hearing more from other switches would be great.

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RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 12:41:09 AM

Lordandmaster

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Ummm...I totally agree with Bearlee.

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RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 12:49:45 AM

WhiplashSmile

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
…which is where I get the BDSM-lite thought. I know I could have it wrong, but 'lite' is not what I'm after.

I don't like Lite Beer especially Budwesier... I'm more of a Hienkien, Molson and Becks beer drinker. I will resort or settle for Busch but I don't like the Lite though. Perhaps I'm missing out something...MMmmm... Now I need to think about how is BDSM like my choices in Beer.

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 23

RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 7:48:45 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile
I am assuming it's somewhat vanilla for them outside the bedroom.

Nope.

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Post #: 24

RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 7:53:58 AM

Celeste43

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Sorry Bearlee, didn't miss the point. Used the word "you" but didn't mean you in particular, just anyone who gets into this kind of relationship. The subject comes up all the time and gets responses from people who don't understand the difference between sensation play and power that my stock answer is to compare the strength of sensations and ask how receiving a foot massage is domly but getting bastinado is subly when they're both just sensations that differ only in degree.

And the word switch I always feel is not just for power relationships, but for top/bottoming as well. I don't think you could power switch in a TPE but certainly in anything less than that you could. One day one person could have total control including what movie they see, what restaurant and what happens in the bedroom whereas the next weekend could be the other person's choice.

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)

Post #: 25

RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 8:09:07 AM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
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From: South Central CO
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I beg your pardon, Celeste...you've made it more clear. Thank you.

And...we all still seem to agree then? Switching is about Top/bottom sensations?

I have heard many people say they are Dom, but like to sub on occasion. I have heard subs say they can, sometimes switch and become Dom. I have been highly skeptical; it sounds like so much kink, to me. Course, I think D/s HAS to have some level of Power Exchange...or it IS just kinky, in-the-bedroom stuff. When a submissive gets to say 'no' some of the time...any ol' time...(outside of agreed upon authority dynamic, I'm talkin' here)...really...it just seems like sex-play to me.

I 'grocked' what Whip had to say, too:

quote:

I'm a Dominant that has a masochistic streak, where I enjoy a little pain myself. However, I'm selective about activities and the type of pain and where I recieve it. I will top from the bottom. I will defer control to a top and sit back and enjoy the ride however if I want it to hault when I say stop I expect for things to hault. Really simple in my book.

LA, can you expound? I realize you said you don't have TPE in your current relationship...but, how is it then, switching from D to s or vice-versa goes on...unless it is role-play? (and I'm not sayin roll-play is bad, I'm casting about here...trying to understand)

I'm sorry if I'm stepping on toes. I'd like to hear more explination. More switchie-comments? Keep in mind ppl...I have two profiles (MsBearlee and bearlee), this has been a topic of interest to me for a long time...

Thanks again, for everybody's posts.

Beverly

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RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 8:11:36 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

I'm a Dominant that has a masochistic streak, where I enjoy a little pain myself. However, I'm selective about activities and the type of pain and where I recieve it. I will top from the bottom. I will defer control to a top and sit back and enjoy the ride however if I want it to hault when I say stop I expect for things to hault. Really simple in my book.

LA, can you expound? I realize you said you don't have TPE in your current relationship...but, how is it then, switching from D to s or vice-versa goes on...unless it is role-play? (and I'm not sayin roll-play is bad, I'm casting about here...trying to understand)

I'm sorry if I'm stepping on toes. I'd like to hear more explination. More switchie-comments? Keep in mind ppl...I have two profiles (MsBearlee and bearlee), this has been a topic of interest to me for a long time...

Thanks again, for everybody's posts.

Beverly

Uh that wasn't me.

For me, it is simply how the energy flow. If I am the dominant, authority goes to me. We understand that. If he is the dominant, authority goes to him. We understand that. It really is as simple as that.

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Post #: 27

RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 8:20:06 AM

Bearlee

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From: South Central CO
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LA... I mentioned it was Whiplash who made the statement.

I asked you a question FOLLOWING his quote. Perhaps I should have quoted you, too. I was refering to your comment to his suggesting switching may be somewhat vanilla outside the bedroom; you said only "Nope".

Sorry for the confusion,
b

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RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 10:57:45 AM

ProlificNeeds

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Joined: 5/19/2007
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Thank you very much for this thread! It helped me clear up a few things in my own mind. I'm very much a submissive in my desire to let someone else have the authority, responsibility and control, but I have a very keen desire at times to 'top' with activities I know will be enjoyed. I enjoy spoiling my partner(BDSM or not), but I always wondered if my urge to top at times and pamper and have my authority figure simply lay back and soak it in was abit out of style for what is considered 'subish'. This clarifies a lot of things for me and helps me see it in a far different perspective, and why being the do'er instead of the do'ee doesn't have to equal an exchange of power at all.

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 29

RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 12:19:39 PM

WhiplashSmile

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43
One day one person could have total control including what movie they see, what restaurant and what happens in the bedroom whereas the next weekend could be the other person's choice.

Thank you, I find this rather helpful.. The D/s roles can change from day to day, weekend to weekend. Literally to be able to "Switch" from Dom/me to submissive and vice versa. Mmmmmmm... interesting...

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 30

RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 12:29:26 PM

Bearlee

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From: South Central CO
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Exactly PN... There are lots of Doms (and vanilla men, too), who enjoy being Topped in any sense. It could be a slightly agressive 'need' to give him a blow-job, it could be just being on top for sex. It might be anal sex...just probing or even a strap-on! Perhaps one likes watersports; of the sensuous kind...rather than humiliation. I've done all that sorta stuff with perfectly vanilla guys and just do NOT see it as 'turning Dom'.

As it turns out, I absolutely LOVE to play with floggers and canes and whips and knives, too. What happens if one's Dom also likes the 'deep massage' that comes from a heavy flogger? Or, perhaps CBT? I can do all those things and NOT 'switch' from sub to Dom. And...I enjoy it immensely!

B

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RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 12:38:44 PM

Bearlee

Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43
One day one person could have total control including what movie they see, what restaurant and what happens in the bedroom whereas the next weekend could be the other person's choice.

Thank you, I find this rather helpful.. The D/s roles can change from day to day, weekend to weekend. Literally to be able to "Switch" from Dom/me to submissive and vice versa. Mmmmmmm... interesting...

Well, THAT is exactly what I believe LA has been saying.........and exactly the part with which I'm having trouble!

Whip, if D/s is more than just bedroom kinks, I would imagine some degree of Power Exchange...or Authority/Control Transfer. And...WHEN that is in place, I just do not understand how one day one can be feeling all submissive to someone who they just humiliated the daylights out of the day before.

YES, I can see subs who Top and Doms who bottom...in MY mind that seems a personality trait that occasionally takes on different activities. To flip/flop personality traites seemssssssss... I dunno; like role-play. I suppose that can be fun too, though.

Again...I don't switch (today) like that. Perhaps I will as I grow into my BDSM-ness, I dunno. But, I have throughly enjoyed the discussion!

Thanks again,
B

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Post #: 32

RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 3:10:34 PM

SireKane

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Joined: 1/22/2004
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Beverly,

I commend you for having the strength and wisdom to address and seek advice regarding this concern. Most women don't ask until it is too late. You have a friends who identifies as a dominant, but says he's equally comfortable being submissive, and that he would allow you to choose his role in your relationship. This is bullshit!!! Step away from the keyboard, and run like hell!!! A dominant man is not equally comfortable being a submissive man. Your friend is a submissive man who is going to play any role that you are comfortable with until he is sure that you are emotionally invested in him. When he is confident that you are bonded emotionally, he's going to reveal to you that he is truly submissive man. He'll be banking that the emotional bond that you have established with him will keep you in the relationship. This is a commom ruse. Buyer beware.

Kane

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 33

RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 3:28:51 PM

SireKane

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Joined: 1/22/2004
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I belong to a couple of dominant male organizations. I know hundreds of real life dominant men. I don't know of any dominant men or masters who enjoy the sensation received from bottoming. I've hosted hundreds of bdsm events. I've never seen a man who identifies as a dominant or master, bottoming or submitting. Being on the receiving end of a paddle, crop , whip, flogger, ect... is a turn off for those dominant men I know. This thread always generates a lot of postings in online chatrooms and message boards, but in my real life bdsm I've seen no such practice.

Kane

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)

Post #: 34

RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 4:21:52 PM

MsParados

Posts: 183
Joined: 3/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

Exactly PN... There are lots of Doms (and vanilla men, too), who enjoy being Topped in any sense. It could be a slightly agressive 'need' to give him a blow-job, it could be just being on top for sex. It might be anal sex...just probing or even a strap-on! Perhaps one likes watersports; of the sensuous kind...rather than humiliation. I've done all that sorta stuff with perfectly vanilla guys and just do NOT see it as 'turning Dom'.

*raises hand slighty* umm not to throw more into the mix but do not confuse Toping/bottom with the Sado/maso side...they do not always go together.
from personal experince here and just .02 so bare with me.
sexually I am damn near always the "agressor", a vicious cock swallower and for the last year on Top has been the position for every intercourse... but I never ever ever top my Daddy. He likes pain, hell he'll hurt himself if no one else is around the S and the M are both part of him but he would never bottom, not even if his life depended on it. He believes even in bottoming, you are still giving up some control. Mental space and play is very big for us and it is essiential that some areas do not over lap... He is not above putting me back in my place if he felt I was taking TO much liberty with my aggressive behaviors.

(I know I'm gonna get it but ) imo a switch, an honest switch ( one who has taken the time to discover their own needs and abilities) it is not based so much on activities as personalities.

If a Dom liked getting peed on, I wouldn't think that would make him a switch, just a Dom that has a fetish for watersports.

(in reply to Bearlee)

Post #: 35

RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 4:31:48 PM

WhiplashSmile

Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SireKane

I belong to a couple of dominant male organizations. I know hundreds of real life dominant men. I don't know of any dominant men or masters who enjoy the sensation received from bottoming. I've hosted hundreds of bdsm events. I've never seen a man who identifies as a dominant or master, bottoming or submitting. Being on the receiving end of a paddle, crop , whip, flogger, ect... is a turn off for those dominant men I know. This thread always generates a lot of postings in online chatrooms and message boards, but in my real life bdsm I've seen no such practice.

Kane

Kane, while agree with you about Dominant/Masters submitting. I strongly disagree about bottoming. While I enjoy being the top most of the time. I love being the bottom, provided I am in control of topping from the bottom at any moment in the scene or through out the whole damn thing. I suppose this actually makes me the top in reality if you want to get technical about. However if I want somebody to flog my back.. I will expect a slave to pick up the flogger and give it to me nice and good just how i like it.   I enjoy this, this is an active I like.

It really makes no difference how many dom/masters you or anybody knows that don't bottom. For me personally I like having somebody flog me now and again, draw on me (body art), or give me a body massage along with other activities I enjoy being the bottom to.

Just because I'm a bit Maso and the majority of doms are not, does not mean I'm any less dom. I've even attach clothes pins to myself and done other things for the sensation of pain itself. No requirement of being the bottom to somebody else.

I'm not a member of the "Dominates Sissy Club for Men" to be more politically correct the "Sados only Dominate club for men".

Just because I enjoy some of these things does not magically transform me into a submissive or anything less than Dom.
I really don't care what the majority of Doms do or don't do. My world does not revolve around them.

I know what I like and what pleasese me, it's that simple. I really could care less if the person flogging me is getting a rush of enjoyment out of it or not.  If they enjoy it, then so much the better of a time it is. Any submissive should enjoy the fact she if bringing me pleasure, and any Domme/sadist should find enjoyment if they find pleasure in inflicting pain.

< Message edited by WhiplashSmile -- 5/21/2007 5:11:03 PM >

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Post #: 36

RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 4:53:43 PM

WhiplashSmile

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In terms of D/s dynamics I believe in training a sub/slave to be a top in certain activities I find enjoyment in. Where as the sub/slave it taught what I like and do not like within a specific activity.

Now just because I am not Micromanaging her every action while she is taking the top, does not mean I have given up control. I am simply kicking back and enjoying the things I taught her to do.

If I had a sub/slave attended some classes in swedish body massage (swedish massages are a little on the painful side), I would let her do her magic and put what she learned to good use. If she did something she learned in class that did not please me or I disapproved of, I would let her know and correct it to my taste or liking. Real Simple. Where the Hell have I given up any control over anything? I love to use a nasty little word known as "defermenet" to describe these things. It's not submission but simply deferment.

Hell, it would be nice if I could effectively flog myself how I like, however I'm not double jointed and it's simply easier to have somebody else do this for me. I can get anybody to do this for me, so why not have my sub/slave do it? I can have a Domme do it as well. Does not really matter who does this to me, as long as they don't treat me like I'm their little bitch sissy boy, expect me to submit to them, nor expect me to sit back and be quiet about the job they are doing. If it's not to my liking I will be vocal about what I like and do not like. Being a bottom to an activity does not mean I transfer any power over to another person. Save the fact I am giving them enough power and freedom to please me in the manner I expect and demand.

Whew... Yes, I am getting a little passionately wound up here in these posts.

(in reply to CrazyC)

Post #: 37

RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 5:09:31 PM

DominaSmartass

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There are 2 primary questions that come to mind for me here:

1. Does the person who claims to be the dom only want to switch as far as SM goes (meaning his sub could top him sometimes but he's still in control?)
2. Can the sub in question wrap her head around the idea that he is still in control but enjoys being on the bottom/receiving end sometimes?

If #1 is yes and #2 is yes then I don't see a problem at all. if #1 or #2 are no then the issue is more complicated. Or, there may be a level of "topping" the sub is willing and comfortable doing with the dom. The best way I can relate to this issue personally is that because I am a female dom, my preferred sexual position sometimes involves my boyfriend bottom being "on top" in the literal sense. He may at that time be controlling the action, topping so to speak, but I am still in control - I choose when we do that and when we don't. On the other hand, I can be somewhat masochistic and enjoy being flogged sometimes but that is not something I have *him* do because I think it would mess with his head too much. it just wouldn't feel right to him to flog his Daddy, even if I enjoy it as much as I enjoy the him-on-top sex. Better all around to find a good top who flogs the way I like. So it's not always black and white.

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(in reply to WhiplashSmile)

Post #: 38

RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 5:16:51 PM

MsParados

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I am confused about your use of the word "deferment" here and in the switch forum... I addressed it there already... but doesn't defer mean to procrastinate and then submit, if not out rightly submit out of respect..... help a sister out here I'm puzzled.

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)

Post #: 39

RE: D/s and TPE..........and switching? - 5/21/2007 5:46:16 PM

WhiplashSmile

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsParados

I am confused about your use of the word "deferment" here and in the switch forum... I addressed it there already... but doesn't defer mean to procrastinate and then submit, if not out rightly submit out of respect..... help a sister out here I'm puzzled.

FukinTroll was responsible for my own enlightment to using this word. see this post.
http://www.collarchat.com/m_859431/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#860358
I had been in the process of trying to Analyze a past relationship I had with a Domme. Because D/s dynamics simply did not apply at all to this relationship. There was simply no submission involved. I made a couple of posts to this same thread.

I've been trying to bite my tounge on this thread and keep things in the D/s framework. However, still applies to D/D. If anything we switched between top/bottom in play, however we never pushed for submission nor expected it. Just about thing we did brough pleasure to the both of us at the same time. We never expected or demanded the other do anything the other did not want nor like or enjoy doing. Actually as ironic as this will sound, both her and I managed to get past a few of our own limits. Everybody likes to talk about how much two people can grow together in a D/s relationship, same thing applies in D/D.

Actually we both appreciated and valued each others Domly nature. Neither one of us pushed for submission.

< Message edited by WhiplashSmile -- 5/21/2007 5:47:15 PM >

(in reply to MsParados)

Post #: 40

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