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RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 11:34:55 AM   
welshwmn3


Posts: 126
Joined: 3/14/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

And don't be sorry, we're doing this for everyone.


No.  Actually, you are not doing it for everybody.  You are doing it for your own reasons.

If I wanted to fly my flag upside down (which I don't, will never do unless it fits the letter and spirit of the flag regulations) I'd  do it myself.

Branwyn,
who thinks "Not In My Name" (a website protesting the war) has to do with ANYBODY who decides they are doing this for "everybody".  You are NOT doing this in MY name.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 11:36:42 AM   
selfbnd411


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This is by far one of the goofiest threads I've seen in a while. 

(in reply to welshwmn3)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 11:37:56 AM   
HarleyKitty69


Posts: 4906
Joined: 10/22/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: welshwmn3

No.  Actually, you are not doing it for everybody.  You are doing it for your own reasons.

If I wanted to fly my flag upside down (which I don't, will never do unless it fits the letter and spirit of the flag regulations) I'd  do it myself.

Branwyn,
who thinks "Not In My Name" (a website protesting the war) has to do with ANYBODY who decides they are doing this for "everybody".  You are NOT doing this in MY name.



and you ain't doing if for me neither......

_____________________________

I am who I am
A Sammy to no end

Sarcasm, just another service I provide


.....I am who I am .......

Sammie Service Slave with a Hippie ScooterTrash Attitude

(in reply to welshwmn3)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 11:41:05 AM   
domiguy


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I rarely engage in free speech thinking who it is going to benefit....If I choose to hang the flag upside down or burn it I assure you that I will not ask anyone their opinion on the matter before I took action.

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 11:41:33 AM   
welshwmn3


Posts: 126
Joined: 3/14/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig


Not bloody likely, we are doing just fine without you. We have rather clearly refused your last two attempts to add us to your union (1775 & 1812).


Umm, in 1812, you actually invaded us (if I'm reading right that you are in Canada).  One of the few countries that can say they invaded the US without a war being taken to their soil, even.

And it doesn't matter WHERE the flag was made.  What matters is that it is a symbol of all that is the USA.  Good and bad, right and wrong.  To fly it in a knowingly disrespectful manner doesn't 'send a message to the politicians' so much as shows one's contempt and disrespect for all that the USA is, has been, and can be, and all the people who have made her what she is today.

Whether you respect her leaders or not (and I don't), or the direction her leaders are taking her (I don't), the flag is above that.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and does not reflect the veiws of the management.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 12:06:08 PM   
Termyn8or


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I can't agree, I think the point is missed. I think it is totally appropriate to fly the flag upside down in times like these. This is not something I take lightly, but people don't seem to realize.

We have been betrayed by those in power. When traitors run the country we are indeed in distress, so it is appropriate.

They refuse to provide for the common defense, secure our borders and they almost never act in the best interest of the People. Actually they do act in the best interest of some people, just not those who they should.

We truly do have taxation without representation. And I am not talking about DC or Puerto Rico. We have foreign entanglements, we have corporate control of the media, we have zoning restrictions used on private prayer groups in FL, and in that same state a bunch of old geezers ARRESTED for playing pinochle for a penny a point.

We have a guy sent to jail for importing lobsters, we have SENT a guy to rot in a Mexican jail for shipping something that is illegal there, not here. Let's not even get into the Trafficant frame-up. We had Clinton who left a trail of dead bodies between Arkansas and the Whitehouse, and he was 10 times better than what we got now.

In my view, at this juncture in history, I would deem it not only appropriate to fly the flag upside down, I think it would be inappropriate to fly it right side up.

We are in deep deep shit folks, and it is headed for the fan. It is time to wake up.

You want more ? I got more. The thing is, can you handle it ? It takes alot of self control not to go nuts once you see the big picture.

Getting to the bigger picture, I see no reason to fly a flag at all until We The People regain control of our country. If this shit keeps up, your choices will be whether to go to Burger King or McDonald's. Our values are gone, and I didn't even say freedoms, that is a given. What is really gone is the spirit of freedom, it has died.

I will not burn a flag, however. Ever. I have little respect for most in this country, I think most are sheeple and stupid. Most have no idea of how this country should be, and have no respect for real law, which is contained in the Constitution.

However I will not burn a flag because it seems to be a symbol for soldiers. People who, whether misguided or not, layed their life on the line. While these actions are squandered by the government, they believed that they were fighting for our country. To burn a flag is to kick them in the face figuratively, and I refuse to do it.

Burning a piece of cloth has about as much impactr as putting it up on a flagpole. Nothing. But burning it incenses people who were willing to give all. How can you do that ?

I will not burn the US flag, nor will I fly it, even on the fourth of July. Independence day only means something if we had maintaned our freedom, and we have not. I also do not go to the fireworks, nor blow any off. I also do not play any music on "Independence" day. I do not celebrate it at all, because there is nothing to celebrate. We are not free at all.

This is more than the usual cramping of freedom required once overpopulated, they do everything for money. Eminent domain is used for shopping malls, or high rise apartments, simply to get more tax money. The bad part is that people didn't rise up the first time.

You who have been soldiers, hats off to you. I'll buy you a drink. I'll help you any way I can within reason, just realize who you worked for. Traitors. And that sucks. You took an oath and lived by it, what happened to their oath ?

Here's a joke for ya. You know why they keep the original Constitution in a nitrogen filled chamber under heavy guard ? To keep politicians from literally wiping their ass with it.

Tough times, tough talk, will I be tough enough if I ever get the chance to really make a difference ? Only time can tell, and might not.

Live each day to the fullest, because we really are doomed. Our most sacred values are gone, we are next.

And don't burn flags. That is a kick in the face to people who would lay down their life for you, or at least thought they did. However I can't go against flying it upside down, in fact it should be flown upside down everywhere in the country. And that is not disrespect, that is truth.

Boils down to this. This country is a flag and a Constitution, which do you think is more important ?

Let's get perspective now. You get pissed if someone burns a flag. I do, I was not in the military but some were. You don't do that. It hurts them, and it helps nobody.

Now let's say I get a copy of the Constitution and burn it ? Might as well. Would that possibly offend the politicians like burning the flag would soldiers ? No. Why ?

Respect. Soldiers have respect for the flag, politicians only respect money. Like I said, they would not hesitate to wipe their ass with the Constitution.

My friends, I regret to inform you that it is starting to look like the stars do indeed belong at the bottom of the flag.

This shit is not making me happy, I am going to stop now, but I will leave you with the following.

Define patriotism. Look it up if you have to, do the words blind obedience come up in the definition ? I think not. This country was founded by rebels. And it is dying with reberls as we watch.

The gumption to change, to make things right starts in our hearts and minds, nowhere else. Until we get that back, we are really doomed.

T

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 2:09:58 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
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quote:

ORIGINAL: welshwmn3

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig


Not bloody likely, we are doing just fine without you. We have rather clearly refused your last two attempts to add us to your union (1775 & 1812).


Umm, in 1812, you actually invaded us (if I'm reading right that you are in Canada).  One of the few countries that can say they invaded the US without a war being taken to their soil, even.
I thought it was England who invaded the U.S. not Canada.  If my memory serves me we then attempted to invade Canada and got our butts kicked.


And it doesn't matter WHERE the flag was made.  What matters is that it is a symbol of all that is the USA.  Good and bad, right and wrong.  To fly it in a knowingly disrespectful manner doesn't 'send a message to the politicians' so much as shows one's contempt and disrespect for all that the USA is, has been, and can be, and all the people who have made her what she is today.
This is opinion and not fact.  Should you choose to live in a world governed by opinion then please continue.  It has been stated and cited over and over in this thread that flying the flag upside is a universally recognized distress symbol and not a symbol of disrespect.

Whether you respect her leaders or not (and I don't), or the direction her leaders are taking her (I don't), the flag is above that.
No it is not it is a symbol of our country and when people think our country is upside down they have not only a right but an obligation to say so in this manner

Of course, this is just my opinion, and does not reflect the veiws of the management.

Yes I understand it is opinion ....but I would think that management (government) would approve
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 5/21/2007 2:24:47 PM >

(in reply to welshwmn3)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 2:27:13 PM   
TribeTziyon


Posts: 264
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Well that last message just hurt my eyes.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 2:48:22 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

It has been stated and cited over and over in this thread that flying the flag upside is a universally recognized distress symbol and not a symbol of disrespect.

thompson,
Unfortunately recognizing fact and addressing response to fact is NOT a requirement for posting on CM.  There are many who don't let being wrong with fact stand in the way of their opinion.

My opinion about the viewer not knowing the meaning of  an upside down flag has been confirmed on the two pages of posts since the point was made.

Thank goodness frustration isn't terminal huh?

Sorry - Hope you don't mind be making that type a bit smaller.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 2:55:30 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

It has been stated and cited over and over in this thread that flying the flag upside is a universally recognized distress symbol and not a symbol of disrespect.

thompson,
Unfortunately recognizing fact and addressing response to fact is NOT a requirement for posting on CM.  There are many who don't let being wrong with fact stand in the way of their opinion.

My opinion about the viewer not knowing the meaning of  an upside down flag has been confirmed on the two pages of posts since the point was made.

Thank goodness frustration isn't terminal huh?

Sorry - Hope you don't mind be making that type a bit smaller.

Mercnbeth:
We are both on the same page here ....perhaps I may have been a bit over the top on the font size but I could not find a larger one.
thompson

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 3:00:11 PM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
....
Unfortunately recognizing fact and addressing response to fact is NOT a requirement for posting on CM.  There are many who don't let being wrong with fact stand in the way of their opinion.
....
Thank goodness frustration isn't terminal huh?   


No kidding!!!   LOL... did you see what they did on the "Immigration crackdown" thread, Merc?  <shakes head>  I had no idea people could be so blind.  Talk about not recognizing fact... OMG!  I finally hadda just give up and walk away.
 
Did send a little note to somebody they scared away, though... 
poor thing.

 
B
 
PS... thompson...YOU are over the top!  lol

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 3:02:37 PM   
mistoferin


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Actually, that point was made on page1 and I think we all understand it fairly well. I guess it really boils down to what is your interpretation of the meaning of the word "distress" in the flag code. I don't think that the writers of it intended for it to be used because you are "distressed" over the current administration or policies, I think they meant it in a far more immediately physical way. But that is my interpretation and everyone else is entitled to their own.

As for it being disrespectful...that is also a matter of opinion...one that I personally share with many others. If folks want to fly their flags upside down I think they should do so...but they shouldn't expect that everyone else is going to feel the same about it and support them in it.

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 5/21/2007 3:03:57 PM >


_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 3:51:10 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
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Just got in from driving to Senator Lindsey Graham's office in Mt Pleasant, 2 hour drive each way.
I wasn't the only one there, 2 other people were there to express their "disgust" with this Amnesty Bill and they wearn't as polite as I was.
Whn it was my turn I said to the staffer, "Hi, I'm one of the bigots that disagrees with this amnesty bill."
(Senator Graham said that anyone who disagrees with this bill is a "bigot" , talk about an arrogant SOB!)
When he was booed sat night at the State Republican Convention he said to the crowd; "I agree with the president and not with you!"
He said that to his Constituents!!!
I asked the staffer if they can't enforce the immigration laws that we have on the books now how do they propose to enforce a whole bunch of new laws, background checks on people who's own countries don't even know anything about them, and who's going to pay for the 5 million people it would take just to administer this program.
Deer caught in the headlights look from the staffer.
"So, ... it's going to be "different" this time, right?
Blank stare.
"So, we're not enforcing the immigration laws on the books now but, if we make a whole bunch of "new" laws those "will" be enforced?"
Big sigh from staffer.
Lindsey Graham is bought and paid for by companies like D.R. Horton, Beezer Homes and all the other big home builders.
Oh, another part of this bill says that illegal alien *Gang Members* only have to "renounce" their Gang Membership to be included in this amnesty!!!
I drove for four hours today to register my "disgust" at this pos Bill.
If you disagree with it just call your Senators and Congressmen.
It's easy and you'll feel better after you do!

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 3:57:15 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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popeye,
Good for you! My regards for taking the time and going so far to get your position heard. I hope Senator Graham's staffer appreciated your effort and passes on your view. If nothing else, your entrance announcement should be remembered. Pity you didn't get it on film, or did you?

Another good result regarding the supporters of this Bill may be that people finally find out exactly who their Representatives represent. Obviously in the case of Senator Graham, not the individuals who pay individual taxes and vote.

Thanks again! Keep the pressure on, as will I.  

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 4:42:22 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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Thanks Merc!
I'll keep up the pressure too!
My ass is sore from driving.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 4:45:03 PM   
Jack45


Posts: 220
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popeye you should send that post to VDARE and American Patrol Report they publish letters from Americans who are trying their best to defend our nation from the illegal invaders. It would inspire the men and women who are concerned about our nation's future.
Your effort is important, what you did.

Out-of-control immigration represents the greatest existential challenge of our time. By “existential challenge,” I mean a public policy problem that goes to the heart of what it means to be “American” and which threatens to fundamentally, and perhaps permanently, alter American society for the worse

…the bill provides for increased border security — something ordinary Americans want — desperately — but which we all know will never happen under our current federal leadership. Until our political and economic elites take border control as seriously as the rest of us do, millions of illegals will continue to stream across the border looking for work and waiting for the next round of “legalization.”

This bill must be defeated. As unacceptable as the status quo is, it is far preferable to the future scenario envisioned by the Kennedy-Bush immigration bill: an increasingly Hispanicized country, divided between rich and poor, with a stagnant working class… Indeed, the demographic changes wrought by this bill are likely to make a meaningful conservative movement in this country — one dedicated to the traditional American principles… a practical impossibility.
(The Kennedy-Bush Immigration Travesty May 20 2007) Steven M. Warshawsky


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 4:52:54 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:


When he was booed sat night at the State Republican Convention he said to the crowd; "I agree with the president and not with you!"
He said that to his Constituents!!!


popeye:
I thought senators were hired help who were suppose to do what they were hired to do.  They were not hired to kiss the presidents ass or any one else's.  They were hired by us to represent our interest.
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 5/21/2007 5:02:44 PM >

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 5:17:10 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

It has been stated and cited over and over in this thread that flying the flag upside is a universally recognized distress symbol and not a symbol of disrespect.


But it's also been made clear earlier in the thread that the flag code, which was quoted at least twice, defines "distress" as a life-threatening emergency or something pretty damn similar.

Flying the flag upside-down to protest a political point is not a bona fide distress call. It is a stunt.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 5:18:32 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

When he was booed sat night at the State Republican Convention he said to the crowd; "I agree with the president and not with you!" He said that to his Constituents!!!


Gotta give him points for having the balls to be honest. Can't say he was pandering.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 5:21:22 PM   
dcnovice


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<fast reply>

This thread demonstrates one of the key reasons why an upside-down flag is an ineffective political symbol: The discussion swiftly shifts from the issue at hand to flag etiquette. A good symbol draws attention to the concern, not away from it.

It also seems hard to win people over by pissing them off over treatment of the flag.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 5/21/2007 5:22:15 PM >


_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 100
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