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RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 5:59:34 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

It has been stated and cited over and over in this thread that flying the flag upside is a universally recognized distress symbol and not a symbol of disrespect.


But it's also been made clear earlier in the thread that the flag code, which was quoted at least twice, defines "distress" as a life-threatening emergency or something pretty damn similar.

Flying the flag upside-down to protest a political point is not a bona fide distress call. It is a stunt.

dcnovice:
If you are familiar with my posts you know that popeye and I disagree about most everything.  That being said he and I both served in the military in the defense of the constitution.  The constitution assures each of us the right to free public expression of our views.  Neither you nor I know how seriously he views this particular problem.  Perhaps in his own mind he feels it is life threatening or dangerous in the extreme.  Why he is doing it is not my concern.  That he is doing it as a legally sanctioned act of public expression of his opinion is what I support and so should you and every other American.
thompson

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 6:01:57 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

Umm, in 1812, you actually invaded us

Not really meaning to hijack this somewhat silly thread, but where did you learn your history????
http://www.multied.com/1812/Declares.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812
http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/ENGLISH/exhibits/1812/index.html
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/amh/amh-06.htm

I quote from the last source: "To the Canadians it was clearly a case of naked American aggression."
The British invasions were nothing more than raids, never meant to be anything else

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 6:06:36 PM   
BlackKnight


Posts: 767
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		So if I'm Angry at our pollititians,, I should burn the flag, rather than hang it upside down?
and changing our constitution, such as eliminating, or even restrickting our rights, say something like... ummm ... THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS, second ammendment right, I shouldn't concider my life/wealfare/rights in danger??

I'm sorry if this was stated earlier, but I just jumped in feet first, no I'll go back and read the whole thread.

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(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 6:12:41 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

It has been stated and cited over and over in this thread that flying the flag upside is a universally recognized distress symbol and not a symbol of disrespect.


But it's also been made clear earlier in the thread that the flag code, which was quoted at least twice, defines "distress" as a life-threatening emergency or something pretty damn similar.

Flying the flag upside-down to protest a political point is not a bona fide distress call. It is a stunt.

dcnovice:
If you are familiar with my posts you know that popeye and I disagree about most everything.  That being said he and I both served in the military in the defense of the constitution.  The constitution assures each of us the right to free public expression of our views.  Neither you nor I know how seriously he views this particular problem.  Perhaps in his own mind he feels it is life threatening or dangerous in the extreme.  Why he is doing it is not my concern.  That he is doing it as a legally sanctioned act of public expression of his opinion is what I support and so should you and every other American.
thompson


I agree that it's a legally sanction form of public expression. I also think it's a stunt that, as we've seen in this thread, is not a particularly effective wayto draw attention to the immigration bill.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 9:14:40 PM   
NControlofU


Posts: 204
Joined: 11/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
As for it being disrespectful...that is also a matter of opinion...one that I personally share with many others. If folks want to fly their flags upside down I think they should do so...but they shouldn't expect that everyone else is going to feel the same about it and support them in it.


As a matter of fact, it is not just "a matter of opinion", it is a matter of United States Code: 

Title 4, Chapter 1
Sec. 8. Respect for flag

(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

You can read it for yourself at http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title4/chapter1_.html

For those who think it's a good way to protest the decisions of our lawmakers, you can choose to display the flag anyway you want, but there are far better and more effective ways to get your lawmakers attention about your disagreement with their policies & decisions.  Simply flying the flag upside down just doesn't say "I don't agree with your position or decision", unless you decide to deface it, as well, by writing those words on it and mailing it to your legislators.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 10:12:37 PM   
welshwmn3


Posts: 126
Joined: 3/14/2006
Status: offline 		thompsonx:

First of all, yelling at me isn't going to win you any friends or influence people on MY side of the computer.  Just thought you might want to know that.  In fact, it makes you seem like a complete goob, and I'm sure that's NOT the impression you want to give.

Second, I don't care what YOUR interpretation of the US Flag Code is.  This phrase:   (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except
as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or
property.

Does.
Not.
Mean.

A person who is pissed off at the government for whatever reason.  "Dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property" has NOT happened to the general public in the USA.  Now, if somebody in the USA was taken hostage by somebody and was somehow able to get to their flag and fly it upside down?  THAT would be "extreme danger to life or property".  Being pissed off at the government for whatever reason?  Nope, sorry.  NOT "extreme danger to life or property".

No matter how much you yell will not change that fact either.


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/21/2007 10:58:40 PM   
brightspot


Posts: 3052
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat

I fly mine upside down all the time. So, should I turn it right side up? I am, like, sooo confused. Maybe I should just burn it. That's always fun.

Bob


Same here....
The flag I have up in my house has always been upside down, well, ever since Woundedknee.
There are other reasons too why I prefer it that way now though.
 
A lot of Natives up North here think the red stripe should come first anyway, representing the first people here.
 
Missy. 

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(in reply to DesertRat)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/22/2007 10:28:37 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: welshwmn3

thompsonx:

First of all, yelling at me isn't going to win you any friends or influence people on MY side of the computer.  Just thought you might want to know that.  In fact, it makes you seem like a complete goob, and I'm sure that's NOT the impression you want to give.

Second, I don't care what YOUR interpretation of the US Flag Code is.  This phrase:   (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except
as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or
property.

Does.
Not.
Mean.

A person who is pissed off at the government for whatever reason.  "Dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property" has NOT happened to the general public in the USA.  Now, if somebody in the USA was taken hostage by somebody and was somehow able to get to their flag and fly it upside down?  THAT would be "extreme danger to life or property".  Being pissed off at the government for whatever reason?  Nope, sorry.  NOT "extreme danger to life or property".

No matter how much you yell will not change that fact either.




welshwmn:
It really does not matter what you or I think.  It is the one who flies the flag upside down who is making the statement.  It is clear from our post that popeye and I agree on little.  But concerning his right to freely express himself , I have taken hostile fire to ensure...I do not particularly enjoy being shot at so I engage in that sort of behaviour only when I feel strongly about something.
Were you to peruse the history of dissent in our country you will find that this particular sort of protest is not uncommon.
thompson

(in reply to welshwmn3)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/22/2007 10:37:24 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

It is the one who flies the flag upside down who is making the statement. 
Thompson, let me give it a shot...

I've yet to read any opposition to popeye's idea of flying the flag in distress. If anything, most have encouraged his effort. The problem is, and this thread supports the belief, many (most?) have no idea what an upside down flag represents. Further, most would not know, unless Popeye put up a explanation billboard, that in his case the "distress" is the illegal immigration issue. If a billboard is required to explain, perhaps the billboard alone would be sufficient as to not alienate those not understanding.

Say I decided to hang beth upside down naked from our balcony to protest the fact that a male can go on the beach topless but she can't. Would everyone understand that message or would they just point and stare and accuse me of spousal abuse?


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/22/2007 10:39:40 AM   
jauntyone


Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

I have two issues with this thread. The first is disrespecting Old Glory because you disagree with the policy of the President is not only inappropriate but shameful, embarrasing, and disgraceful.  Old Glory is not a symbol of the President. it is a symbol of this country, of the thousands who have died for the freedoms you hold dear. You should be ashamed for even suggesting that.

Greetings
 
I agree
 
quote:

Say I decided to hang beth upside down naked from our balcony to protest the fact that a male can go on the beach topless but she can't. Would everyone understand that message or would they just point and stare and accuse me of spousal abuse?

Greetings Master Merc
 
LOL, I must say that this sounds interesting  I must suggest it to Master. It brought a giggle from me.

 
I wish you well
 
melissa

< Message edited by jauntyone -- 5/22/2007 10:41:45 AM >

(in reply to NavyDDG54)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/22/2007 10:45:35 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

It is the one who flies the flag upside down who is making the statement. 
Thompson, let me give it a shot...

I've yet to read any opposition to popeye's idea of flying the flag in distress. If anything, most have encouraged his effort. The problem is, and this thread supports the belief, many (most?) have no idea what an upside down flag represents. Further, most would not know, unless Popeye put up a explanation billboard, that in his case the "distress" is the illegal immigration issue. If a billboard is required to explain, perhaps the billboard alone would be sufficient as to not alienate those not understanding.

Say I decided to hang beth upside down naked from our balcony to protest the fact that a male can go on the beach topless but she can't. Would everyone understand that message or would they just point and stare and accuse me of spousal abuse?



Mercnbeth:
I know not what course others may take but should you in fact hang beth upside down from the balcony I will be the one with the telephoto lens on my camera.
thompson

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/22/2007 10:51:23 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I know not what course others may take but should you in fact hang beth upside down from the balcony I will be the one with the telephoto lens on my camera.
Thompson, I'll let you know should I decide to make a such a statement. No need for the telephoto lens though. You can sit with me on the lawn, share an adult beverage or two, enjoy the view, and get as many close ups as you'd like. 

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/22/2007 11:06:00 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I know not what course others may take but should you in fact hang beth upside down from the balcony I will be the one with the telephoto lens on my camera.
Thompson, I'll let you know should I decide to make a such a statement. No need for the telephoto lens though. You can sit with me on the lawn, share an adult beverage or two, enjoy the view, and get as many close ups as you'd like. 


Mercnbeth:
Thank you for the provisional invite.
Tequila reposada werx for me
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 5/22/2007 11:07:12 AM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/22/2007 5:12:40 PM   
welshwmn3


Posts: 126
Joined: 3/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

welshwmn:
It really does not matter what you or I think.  It is the one who flies the flag upside down who is making the statement.  It is clear from our post that popeye and I agree on little.  But concerning his right to freely express himself , I have taken hostile fire to ensure...I do not particularly enjoy being shot at so I engage in that sort of behaviour only when I feel strongly about something.
Were you to peruse the history of dissent in our country you will find that this particular sort of protest is not uncommon.
thompson


So, I guess in your haste to agree with somebody you don't usually agree with, you neglected to read the parts where I said, "It is your First Admendment right to do this if you want to"? 

In at least three of my responses to people I said 1) that flying the flag upside down was disrespectful according to the Flag Code, and 2) that it's protected under the First Admendment, as is burning the flag.

So, why did you feel you had to yell?  Just because I disaprove of flying the flag upside down?  Tough.  Not everybody is going to like this so-called protest. 

Just as it's (general) your constitutional right (the same constitutional right my grandfather fought for, my uncle/godfather lost his life fighting for, my adopted father fought for, and my husband went into service to protect) to fly the Flag upsided down, it's MY constitutional right to point out that it's disrespectful to the flag, and that there will be people (myself included in that number) who disaprove of the act.

Yelling at me won't change the words I've already written and that you did not read for comprehension.  Before you "shoot" in the future, you might want to make sure you read the whole post (and all of the posts), and not just the parts you don't agree with.  Note:  this advice is worth what you paid for it.


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/22/2007 5:19:01 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		"it's MY constitutional right to point out that it's disrespectful to the flag,"

You can certainly point out YOUR OPINION.

Do you boycott places which print flags on DISPOSABLE NAPKINS AND COFFEE CUPS?

What's more disrespectful than hocking a loogie into a paper napkin printed with the flag? *IF* you're someone who gives a shit about symbology like that...

And what about those assholes with the gall to put a flag sticker on their car BACKWARDS, with the field towards the rear???



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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/22/2007 5:48:29 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Flying the flag properly would do as much good as flying it upside down.
 
It seems like the groups that are pushing hard for easy entry into the country, are flying their own flag right side up. I wouldn't want to give reason for our own citizens to seem like they need lessons on patriotism, from those that aren't citizens.
 
Why don't you fly a Mexican flag upside down. You may even discover the beauty of the drive-bye.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/22/2007 5:50:36 PM   
welshwmn3


Posts: 126
Joined: 3/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

"it's MY constitutional right to point out that it's disrespectful to the flag,"

You can certainly point out YOUR OPINION.




I have wasted WAY too much time arguing with a bunch of people who don't seem to be able to read what the US Flag Code actually says, using the definitions the flag code uses to define what is disrespectful to the flag or not.

Y'all ain't worth it.  Life is way the heck too short.

Enjoy your protest. 

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/22/2007 5:52:20 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

Why don't you fly a Mexican flag upside down. 


Not sure I see what's gained by dissing another country's flag either.

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it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/22/2007 6:03:26 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
Not sure I see what's gained by dissing another country's flag either.


I think that was my point. 

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: "Fly your Flag upside down this week!" - 5/22/2007 10:57:50 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Let's just burn the Constitution then.

T

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 120
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