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RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/23/2007 12:25:16 PM   
darkinshadows


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My question would be, do you believe the mother analagy?  If you do not, then the other analagy is just as untrue.
(Which I do not think either statement is right)
I question also is whether you are asking about dominance or being a dominant - as the post is different to the title.
 
Makes a big difference.
Peace


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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/23/2007 12:31:54 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

I understood that you were referring to the post, I just didnt' t want people to think those were my original words...I have seen the debate over and again, however I had never seen the Mother analogy and found it interesting....I do believe that one that only reads about being Dominant, or plays online can hardly consider themselves "Master" if they have never "Master"ed anyone one, or any particular skill


Yeah, that can work.  If you want to have a slave, regardless if you actually do or not, you can still claim to be a "Master" under the definition of "one who would be a Master in a perferred relationship", even if you don't fall under the "is a Master in a relationship" definition.

Since much of CollarMe is an ad site, with many singles in it, and there's no "not a {Dom/sub/slave}" option for your stance, most people seem to adopt the "a {Master/Mistress/Dom/Domme/sub/slave} is one who would be a {Master/Mistress/Dom/Domme/sub/slave} in a perferred relationship".

Now, is that person a {Master/Mistress/Dom/Domme/sub/slave}?  Ultimately, only if they're in a relationship at the time with a person, by the basic definition.  But since the definition of wanting to be one is in common usage, it depends on what you mean by the question.

People were getting confused, thinking there was some grand philosophical debate to be had in if one could be a {Master/Mistress/Dom/Domme/sub/slave} outside of a relationship.  They were just missing the differing definitions, seeing a paradox in their confussion over which definition to go with, then chosing the one that they found most desirable, either out of fimilarity (use on CM or so), selfish reasons (not in a relationship, but still want to be called a {Master/Mistress/Dom/Domme/sub/slave}), or other reason.

Anyhow, I'm a fan of summing things up, so there we go.  No real questions were asked, so no need to reply if you don't feel like it.  Still, thanks for the OP- this frustration over threads in general's been building up, and this one was a good place to talk about.  I hope people just keep in mind varying definitions of words.

(in reply to ELUSIVE1)
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RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/23/2007 6:18:22 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

A person  is not a Dominant/Domme unless he has a submissive to complete him/her in the same way A woman is not a Mother until she has a child...she may have motherly feelings, but she is  not called "mother' until she has a child.....
I read this on another site and would love to hear your thoughts on this....



Try telling a woman who lost a child they aren't a mother because they don't have a child anymore - i do suggest you check for sharp objects and things that can be used as projectiles first though and plan your escape route before enlightening her as to  her status as a mother.

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RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/23/2007 6:29:40 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

A person  is not a Dominant/Domme unless he has a submissive to complete him/her in the same way A woman is not a Mother until she has a child...she may have motherly feelings, but she is  not called "mother' until she has a child.....
I read this on another site and would love to hear your thoughts on this....



Try telling a woman who lost a child they aren't a mother because they don't have a child anymore - i do suggest you check for sharp objects and things that can be used as projectiles first though and plan your escape route before enlightening her as to  her status as a mother.


That's like telling a wife she isn't a wife anymore at a husband's wedding.  "Until death do you part" was the vow.  She's a widow.  But she's still going to be pissed off.

Your story makes the point that telling someone that their loved one is dead- particularly a child to a mother- is a great way to infuriate them.  This isn't relevant to whether or not that statement's accurate.

(in reply to velvetears)
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RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/23/2007 6:37:45 PM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		I disagree completely, one can most definitely be a Dominant without a sbmissive to complete them. Dominant is what I am, at home, at work, in life--end of story--when I have a submissive then I have a D/s relationship, until then Domninant business as usual.

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RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/23/2007 6:50:33 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

I disagree completely, one can most definitely be a Dominant without a sbmissive to complete them. Dominant is what I am, at home, at work, in life--end of story--when I have a submissive then I have a D/s relationship, until then Domninant business as usual.


But you're not a Dom, as defined as a "Dominant individual in a D/s relationship" (or more robust variation), when you don't have a sub.  The OP isn't saying your very nature is vanilla in preference when you don't have a sub.

It's just a definition confusion.  You're right.  And so's the OP.  Just agree with the statement with the fact it's using a different definition from the one that might come to your mind first thing.


Edit:  Typo.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 5/23/2007 7:04:24 PM >

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RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/23/2007 7:13:24 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

That's like telling a wife she isn't a wife anymore at a husband's wedding.  "Until death do you part" was the vow.  She's a widow.  But she's still going to be pissed off.

Your story makes the point that telling someone that their loved one is dead- particularly a child to a mother- is a great way to infuriate them.  This isn't relevant to whether or not that statement's accurate.


Once you have given birth or mothered a child you will forever be a mother... unless you experience it you cannot possibly understand it, you can't use logic on this one.

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RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/23/2007 7:22:14 PM   
CuriousLord


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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Once you have given birth or mothered a child you will forever be a mother... unless you experience it you cannot possibly understand it, you can't use logic on this one.



In your heart and mind.  Not in reality, if you lack a child, by the convinential definition.  But you are in your mind.  Hence two ways of looking at it, two definitions of "mother".

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RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/23/2007 7:23:49 PM   
ELUSIVE1


Posts: 536
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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

A person  is not a Dominant/Domme unless he has a submissive to complete him/her in the same way A woman is not a Mother until she has a child...she may have motherly feelings, but she is  not called "mother' until she has a child.....
I read this on another site and would love to hear your thoughts on this....



Try telling a woman who lost a child they aren't a mother because they don't have a child anymore - i do suggest you check for sharp objects and things that can be used as projectiles first though and plan your escape route before enlightening her as to  her status as a mother.

HUH??? I made no mention of anyone's status as a Mother....


_____________________________

"Words have no power to impress the mind without the exquisite horror of their reality"

*Poe
http://alt.com/blog/ELUSIVE1NC
http://users.adultspace.com/ELUSIVE1NC/


(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/23/2007 7:57:54 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

A person  is not a Dominant/Domme unless he has a submissive to complete him/her in the same way A woman is not a Mother until she has a child...she may have motherly feelings, but she is  not called "mother' until she has a child.....
I read this on another site and would love to hear your thoughts on this....



Try telling a woman who lost a child they aren't a mother because they don't have a child anymore - i do suggest you check for sharp objects and things that can be used as projectiles first though and plan your escape route before enlightening her as to  her status as a mother.

HUH??? I made no mention of anyone's status as a Mother....



See bolded above - i am confused??  Is that not a reference of a mother's status ?

_____________________________

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RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/23/2007 8:27:13 PM   
MHOO314


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Joined: 9/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

I disagree completely, one can most definitely be a Dominant without a sbmissive to complete them. Dominant is what I am, at home, at work, in life--end of story--when I have a submissive then I have a D/s relationship, until then Domninant business as usual.


But you're not a Dom, as defined as a "Dominant individual in a D/s relationship" (or more robust variation), when you don't have a sub.  The OP isn't saying your very nature is vanilla in preference when you don't have a sub.

It's just a definition confusion.  You're right.  And so's the OP.  Just agree with the statement with the fact it's using a different definition from the one that might come to your mind first thing.


Edit:  Typo.


hmm I believe the OP stated that a Dominant was not a Dominant without a submissive to complete them--and I will not admit to that---for I am a Dominant whether in or out of a D/s relationship---it is not a submissive that completes Me, I am completed by who I am---so there is no difference in definition, the difference is the requirement for external validation.

< Message edited by MHOO314 -- 5/23/2007 8:28:48 PM >

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RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/23/2007 8:47:35 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		A mother is still a mother, even if her UM dies.
 
Love is still very much love, even if the one you love is not around or has passed away. 

If a tree falls in the forest, and no one hears it---did it make a sound?

< Message edited by MzMia -- 5/23/2007 8:49:56 PM >

_____________________________

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"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to ELUSIVE1)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/23/2007 8:50:13 PM   
CuriousLord


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Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

If a tree falls in the forest, and no one hears it---did it make a sound?


Depends on how you define "sound".

If "sound" is a soundwave, then, yes, it does.
If "sound" is a soundwave that has been interepted by a human, then, no (unless it was recorded and played back to a human).

It's all just definition play.  Nothing deep or philosophical.

(in reply to MzMia)
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RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/24/2007 1:00:27 AM   
ELUSIVE1


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Joined: 9/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1

A person  is not a Dominant/Domme unless he has a submissive to complete him/her in the same way A woman is not a Mother until she has a child...she may have motherly feelings, but she is  not called "mother' until she has a child.....
I read this on another site and would love to hear your thoughts on this....



Try telling a woman who lost a child they aren't a mother because they don't have a child anymore - i do suggest you check for sharp objects and things that can be used as projectiles first though and plan your escape route before enlightening her as to  her status as a mother.

HUH??? I made no mention of anyone's status as a Mother....



See bolded above - i am confused??  Is that not a reference of a mother's status ?

Has or had--the woman would be a Mother if she has had a child, or raised one...but bringing up the morbid subject of loss...just curious where THAT came from


_____________________________

"Words have no power to impress the mind without the exquisite horror of their reality"

*Poe
http://alt.com/blog/ELUSIVE1NC
http://users.adultspace.com/ELUSIVE1NC/


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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/24/2007 3:52:45 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
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From: Newcastle, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sugarcoatedscamp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

A Master is always a Dominant but a Dominant is not a Master unless validated by owning a slave.
 
A slave is always a submissive but a submissive is not a slave unless owned by a Master.


And what of J, one of my dearest friends, who is dominant in her own right, but chooses to be slave to one?

Not sure what 'J' has to do with a total stranger like me but since you ask.... 
 
I haven't the foggiest what you mean by J being "dominant in her own right" - izzat like assertive?  Because the vast majority of fem/subs I've come across are quite assertive, as opposed to ..... sayyyy...., passive.  As far as I'm concerned, if J is someone's slave, she ain't no Dominant - but she is validating a Dominant as being a Master (or Mistress?).  And like I posted originally, that's MY definition.  What's yours, now that you're here?
 
Speaking generally (and not aimed at you personally), I'm glad I got in early on this thread because I knew it'd end up a "pig's breakfast" with all manner of vague exceptions and words/phrases getting twisted, thus turning what should've be an interesting topic from a *lifestyle* perspective into a "free for all".  Death and taxes, people, DEATH and TAXES!!!!
 
Crikey, we even ended up with that old nonsense about "if a tree falls... blah blah.  Until such time as someone actually records a tree falling in total silence, EVERY freakin' falling tree makes a sound!  Whether or not there's someone there to witness it is human arrogance at its most moronic!
 
Focus.

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RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/24/2007 4:31:25 AM   
CDOM3


Posts: 15
Joined: 2/22/2007
Status: offline 		Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if there is no one to hear it?
Yes it does.
Each of us makes our own decission as to the 'who' we are.
Others judge us by the 'what' we have.
Perhaps the question should be 'Which is more important to you. Being a Dominant or being seen as a Dominant?'

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/24/2007 4:46:05 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
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If a man looks after and raises a child, but does not physically have one, or gave his seed, does that still make him a father - or simply a role model?
 
If a woman has a child, but gives it away and never looks after it, then does that still make them a mother?
 
If a woman looks after a child that isn't hers (foster/adopt/step) - again - does that make her a mother or a role model? 
 
What about the woman who gives birth - but who was unable to concieve and had the egg of another implanted - does that define her as a mother?
 
There are soooooo many different ways - one cannot count.  The same goes for dominance.  A dominant person is still a dominant person without a submissive - and they can still be 'a dominant' even without a submissive or slave if someone views their dominance as being who they are.  A Master is a master if that Master/mistress has something that no one else has - be that slave or artistic talent OR their own particular 'brand' of dominance.  No two dominant people are the same.  Therefore their uniqueness alone gives them dominance over something and someone else.  Submission is the same - as is slavery (in a BDSM context, not what the outside world thinks) - if we all agree that every single person is unique, then by default we are all submissive or dominant or mothers or fathers to someone or something - just not to all - and as long as we can remember that and not push it onto people in a non consensual manner, and live happily - it doesn't really matter what other people think - dictate or label.
Labels only matter between the people we communicate with on a one to one - face to face - basis.
 
Peace


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/24/2007 4:48:34 AM   
VeryMercurial


Posts: 620
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline 		I am always a Dominant, whether I have a submissive or not.

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RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/24/2007 6:38:34 AM   
sugarcoatedscamp


Posts: 120
Joined: 5/5/2006
From: Fort Wayne, IN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: sugarcoatedscamp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

A Master is always a Dominant but a Dominant is not a Master unless validated by owning a slave.
 
A slave is always a submissive but a submissive is not a slave unless owned by a Master.


And what of J, one of my dearest friends, who is dominant in her own right, but chooses to be slave to one?

Not sure what 'J' has to do with a total stranger like me but since you ask.... 
 
I haven't the foggiest what you mean by J being "dominant in her own right" - izzat like assertive?  Because the vast majority of fem/subs I've come across are quite assertive, as opposed to ..... sayyyy...., passive.  As far as I'm concerned, if J is someone's slave, she ain't no Dominant - but she is validating a Dominant as being a Master (or Mistress?).  And like I posted originally, that's MY definition.  What's yours, now that you're here?
 
Speaking generally (and not aimed at you personally), I'm glad I got in early on this thread because I knew it'd end up a "pig's breakfast" with all manner of vague exceptions and words/phrases getting twisted, thus turning what should've be an interesting topic from a *lifestyle* perspective into a "free for all".  Death and taxes, people, DEATH and TAXES!!!!
 
Crikey, we even ended up with that old nonsense about "if a tree falls... blah blah.  Until such time as someone actually records a tree falling in total silence, EVERY freakin' falling tree makes a sound!  Whether or not there's someone there to witness it is human arrogance at its most moronic!
 
Focus.


Outside of her M/s relationship, she's a Domme.  Inside an M/s relationship, she's been known to have submissives of her own.  I was just arguing the point that sometimes one doesn't have to be submissive in order to be slave.  She chooses to humble herself for one.

_____________________________

Consent means never having to say, "I'm sorry."
If beating you is wrong, I don't wanna be right.
I got an A+ in online bdsm.
You can call me Master now!

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RE: Are you Dominant? - 5/24/2007 8:04:31 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		LMAO

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

I'm heterosexual...
...but only when I'm actually fucking.


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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Profile   Post #: 60
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