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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:40:59 PM

imthatacheyouhav

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Master pushed one of my very hard limits, I still think of that day as the day I became his slave really and truly. I didn't and dont see him as abusive.

I guess it depends on the person.

What do you mean "I still think of that day as the day I became his slave really and truly."

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:43:05 PM

puella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leakylee

i have a question in all of this reguards. does anyone really think that someone that would actually comtemplate chopping your leg off, or killing you, or involving um's are really going to respect limits? if they are mentally defective enough to want to injure another human in this manner, what in all hells would make them give two shits less about another's overall health and wellbeing??

just curious.

lee

lee.. to this I would only say that those are just really obviously identifiable and usually commonly shared limits... it really is judgmental of people to say that someone else’s hard limit is less legitimate simply because it is not one you, or we as a collective community share an abhorrence for. You can chisel away at the soul just as easily as chopping off a limb.

< Message edited by puella -- 5/24/2007 7:46:55 PM >

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:45:43 PM

earthycouple

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leakylee

i have a question in all of this reguards. does anyone really think that someone that would actually comtemplate chopping your leg off, or killing you, or involving um's are really going to respect limits? if they are mentally defective enough to want to injure another human in this manner, what in all hells would make them give two shits less about another's overall health and wellbeing??

just curious.

lee

People snap all the time...or purport for as long as they feel they need to so they gain trust in the ultimate end to harm....think date rape.

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:46:09 PM

sadomasokisti

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Limits do evolve and change over time. I look at some hard limits as boundaries that can be poked carefully and even pushed, and if the poking and pushing is gives positive results I would discuss with the sub about pushing further and even braking those boundaries.

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:47:58 PM

earthycouple

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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

quote:

ORIGINAL: leakylee

i have a question in all of this reguards. does anyone really think that someone that would actually comtemplate chopping your leg off, or killing you, or involving um's are really going to respect limits? if they are mentally defective enough to want to injure another human in this manner, what in all hells would make them give two shits less about another's overall health and wellbeing??

just curious.

lee

lee.. to this I would only say that those are just really obviously identifiable and usually commonly shared limits... it really is judgmental of people to say that someone else’s hard limit is less legitimate simply because it is not one you, or we as a collective community share an abhorrence for. You can chisel away at the soul just as easily as chopping off a limb.

Thanks...I knew someone would understand the overall meaning. *S*

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:52:24 PM

slavejali

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quote:

I wonder at times if people get caught up in.. if I do this for him, I will be a true slave sort of mentality

Thats probably true for me on some level...but i dont see it as destructive when the right partner is chosen to begin with if that makes sense. Like I need that level of trust to be there and soemtimes things like that just confirm it or ground it..or something. Well it's not about being a 'true' slave..but about connecting with deeper levels of trust or something like that...which kinda connects really well with my slavery and makes me very happy.

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:52:35 PM

Trampler

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excellent way of putting it puella! (in reference of what you said on page one.)

< Message edited by Trampler -- 5/24/2007 7:57:54 PM >

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:57:15 PM

slavejali

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quote:

What do you mean "I still think of that day as the day I became his slave really and truly."

Well, a lot of things come to me easily in regards to relationship and submission within it, it was in that time of real personal challenge to submit that I profoundly realised...."fuck I'm enslaved". Sorry for cussing but it fitted.

You know those times when a little light goes on inside you and you think "whoa!"?

< Message edited by slavejali -- 5/24/2007 8:04:12 PM >

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 7:59:19 PM

daddysprop247

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adelphus

I think that one of the safety nets that allows many of us to engage in the BDSM lifestyle is the idea that we can choose what we don't want as well as what we do. How many of us would play with fire without some protection? If someone told me that I had to give up all my rights just to be part of this scene, I wouldn't be here.

some of us do exactly that. give up all rights, because for us that is the only path to fulfillment and happiness.

hard limits are not something i ever took the time to truly consider, as from day one of discovering the D/s lifestyle i knew that i needed to be a slave, and i knew that as a slave i'd have no limits of my own. however there are obviously still many things that would cause me a great deal of harm, esp. mentally/emotionally, if my Master were to subject me to them, and over time he has learned most of these things. He may still choose to subject me to them if that is his whim at the moment, but it is with a full understanding and awareness of the likely fallout. and despite the fact that i may be subjected to what otherwise would be a "hard limit", it's the fact that i am suffering for HIM, and that he will be pleased that makes it worthwhile.

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 8:06:46 PM

Trampler

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But did you choose that with knowing what being a slave would entail? (daddysprop247.)

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 8:13:06 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jauntyone
Greetings

I do not place limits on myself, not because I believe in the ' my limits are Master's limits" but because placing limits says that I lack the courage to attempt something ( this is only my personal view on this ). So, to that end, I do not limit myself in what I may one day be capable of.

I wish you well

melissa

Interesting.

Whenever I speak of limits, it's always within the context of "given normal life conditions."

So, given that we're not in an emergency state, given that we're not in a life or death situation, given that I'm not starving, given that no one's gone insane...given that things are pretty much borings table and normal, I have certain limits, such as not killing my nephews or putting them under mental torture.

Do you think a mother shouldn't have a limit against killing her children because it might suggest she lacks the courage to do it one day?

Now, given some extreme weird freakishly unlikely state of the world, I may, in fact, have to kill my nephews. I understand that. I came to terms with my ability and willingness to kill other humans years ago.

So my limit on killing my nephews has nothing to do with courage- simply to do with my sense of right and wrong, and being true to myself.

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 8:20:14 PM

Masque66

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The trouble comes partly from definition of 'hard limit' I think. Some subs will place anything they don't like as a hard limit. Does that seem right? That the sub sets all the boundaries?

I can't see something as a legitimate hard limit unless it would truly cause intense physical or psychological damage. You might not be able to make the wheelbarrow carry 500lbs, but unlike wheelbarrows, humans have the capacity to become stronger. I consider overcoming a previously controlling fear to be a great triumph, and would want to work on those limits, trying to help her get past them.

As to chopping off limbs or killing children...I think the defining measure is there really isn't a positive aspect to those. It's pretty unlikely that the mother will later feel good about herself or the sub decide that hopping around was a good idea after all.

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 8:21:56 PM

puella

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What on earth makes you think that all limits are simply fears?

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 8:32:50 PM

Lashra

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I think one big difference here is that the OP is discussing submissives whereas you are discussing slaves, there is a difference. Subs can set limits, slaves generally have very few to none.

To the OP some hard limits have to be pushed for a submissives own well being. I will give you an example. My sub is horrible with money, his credit is trash, he has a bankruptcy and is a compulsive spender. He set his finances as a hard limit. I challenged him on that hard limit because I was just concerned for his financial well being. He got mad and we had an argument about it. But I told him, if you will not allow me to teach you how to budget and save your money you will never get ahead in the game. You will always wallow in financial difficulty. He agreed to send me part of his check each pay period to place in a savings account for him which I have done. Has this helped him? It was until his compulsive spending got him to a point where he couldnt save anymore. So now he sends no money for his account. I've set a hard limit recently , it is when we move into together I handle the finances for BOTH of us. If he can't handle it he can forget living with me, I refuse to live with an adult who cannot take care of himself. Mentally he is struggling with this but admitted it would be for the best. We shall see.

~Lashra

~Lashra

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 8:34:12 PM

BlindDescent

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Speaking of psychology... What happens when pushed limits go badly? We don't talk much about that unpleasantness. Killing and chopping are rare requests (we hope).

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 8:37:40 PM

puella

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I can only speak for myself Blind Descent, but ... you become a shadow. Parts of yourself get killed off and/or sacraficed and often they are not parts that can be regenerated. That is not something the Dominant, in my experience, can really share with the person who is damaged... not that they would likely want to.

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 8:39:52 PM

Trampler

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Blind Descent, that is where I wanted to go with my post. Yes I agree, don't often see the bad side of play discussed.

< Message edited by Trampler -- 5/24/2007 8:41:18 PM >

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 8:40:56 PM

puella

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OH woops.. sorry, I do not know about play.. I never engaged in casual scening.. and really is not at all what I have been talking about in regards to hard limits.

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 8:46:00 PM

Trampler

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I don't necessarily mean casual play, I meant to seperate that from other aspects of the D/s relationship, where a specific activity (ies.) takes place. that is D/s relationships that include s/m activities

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RE: Psychology and hard limits - 5/24/2007 9:14:10 PM

Masque66

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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

What on earth makes you think that all limits are simply fears?

Nothing at all, that was an example. I didn't mean to imply that all of a slaves limits were based in fear. But I imagine they're all based on some form of emotional difficulty.

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