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RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/28/2007 1:24:17 PM

Teachme59

Posts: 47
Joined: 5/10/2006
Status: offline

Faramir

I would have posted sooner but I had to get out the dictionary to figure out what you said… wonderful vocabulary.

I sure made a mistake calling your post bull but you have to admit it did liven up the discussion.

At first I kept trying to redirect the discussion back to what the OP needed. But gave in to a good time… I do like to play devils advocate and feel guilty that most posts had nothing to do with her question.

Now tell me the truth….. has an online discussion of this type ever changed your mind about anything?
Butch

(in reply to Teachme59)

Post #: 81

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/28/2007 1:28:01 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

We have an M/s poly relationship and we deal with life's pressures much like anyone else. We do not have an us vs. them mentatility; we are living our deepest desires and we still manage to flow through mainstream society with few issues.

The one constant in our lives is that he has the authority in our lives and most people who interact with us with any consistency knows this. They may not know that we label it as master and slave, but they know he is in charge. The little ones know that he is the boss as well as all our parents. The most telling question I have received from my mom was when she asked "did he let you spend money on...?" I answered the question and the conversation moved on. It was a simple way to show she knows that he is in charge and that she accepts it.

The protocols that we follow are unobtrusive enough that we fit seemlessly in mainstream society. The biggest way that we stand out is that the three of us are a couple. We don't hide that we are all three in a relationship together but we do not flaunt it either. Truthfully, most people don't pay much attention to the people around them unless their behavior is extremely out of place. We just finished a two week vacation traveling through a conservative part of the US and I don't think that many people took notice that we are poly and if they did realize, they didn't really care.

I know that for myself when life outside of my relationship starts to get even more stressful, I have an even stronger desire to follow the protocols within the relationship. Interacting with him is calming and helps me center myself. The protocols that have been established enhance our relationship and add meaning to our life; it is a very comforting feeling.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Masterspetbri)

Post #: 82

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/28/2007 1:32:14 PM

Teachme59

Posts: 47
Joined: 5/10/2006
Status: offline

EvilGeoff…I do believe Madrabbit and Faramir are right about me… Looking back I do seem like a ping bong ball bouncing from one extreme to another… I think you all for your indulgence. Who knows maybe some of what you all say may sink into my hard head.
Butch

< Message edited by Teachme59 -- 5/28/2007 1:39:49 PM >

(in reply to EvilGeoff)

Post #: 83

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/28/2007 1:33:03 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Teachme59

Thanks Tammyjo for that insight…I’ll admit I am not always comfortable with myself. Maybe it does have a lot to do with those around me and their expectations and prejudices and my fear of disappointing them.
I just don’t think my feelings are unusual in the community. Could be wrong… the majority seems to agree with that….so I submit to the majority thinking. Hmmm wait I did that for Bush and Iraq… look what it got us.
Damn another can of worms I opened.
Butch

I think that fear and discomfort with one's self is far too common. Let's face it, BDSM isn't really all that special in terms of people are people. As it becomes easier to find information I think we may well see an upswing in people who frankly aren't quite ready yet to embrace their BDSM interests and desires, as well as a sad number of people pretending to be into BDSM for other reasons.

Just think about your own comment above. Just because it is common does not mean it is correct or even that it is best.

Maybe it's the teacher in me but I want each person who comes into the BDSM world to do so for positive reasons and to be able to stand up and be out for themselves if for no one else.

Living in fear, living with shame and self doubt, been there and done that. I know there is a much better way to live, Teachme59.

As for what others think. We are now entirely out to our what appears to be a very mundane neighborhood in small city Indiana (granted it is a univerity town). No one cares, heck we get invited to events around the neighborhood all the time and we talk to our neighbors all the time. Why? Why not? They'd known us for a few years before someone finally asked what that flag was (our leather pride flag that we fly next to our american flag or our peace flag). The information simply helped explained why three adults live and seemed to love each other so much. It didn't undo what they had seen and continue to see as good neighbors.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Teachme59)

Post #: 84

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/28/2007 1:33:27 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Teachme59

Now tell me the truth….. has an online discussion of this type ever changed your mind about anything?
Butch

Yes.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Teachme59)

Post #: 85

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/28/2007 1:34:27 PM

robertolapiedra

Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilGeoff

My parents would be ashamed of me? Screw that noise. It's my life and I live it how I wish. My mom and dad might have been disappointed that I don't have a Masters degree, but they wouldn't have batted an eye (and mom didn't) when I came out that I was a Dom and sadist. You have absolutely no clue what motivates me, how I feel, how my parents felt, how my janey feels.

Presuming to speak for anyone you don't know, haven't even spoken to, or asked their opinion about the issue you are supposedly speaking for them about, is the height of folly.

Keep your fears off my community and family (both Leather/BDSM and vanilla). They don't fit.

YIK,
- Geoff

Hello EvilGeoff. After reading all these posts, I can't help but find amusing that some of you have parents (or one of the two) who has (or has had) "experience" either with old guard or similar...(maybe even, they are "active" at this very moment!!).

I have a 29 year old daughter, and my wife pointed out to me that she was the "dominant" in her relationship. I mean, it showwwws! Now, do I want to know the details? No!

Think about this when you feel you have to "come out" to dear mama. Don't be surprised if "she does not blink", don't be surprised if "nobody" blinks.

Today it's open, but still discreet. Before it was closed and kept secret. That does not mean "all" your elders don't know about "bad boys and bad girls" when they see one. RL.

(in reply to EvilGeoff)

Post #: 86

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/28/2007 2:16:26 PM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Teachme59
I sure made a mistake calling your post bull but you have to admit it did liven up the discussion.

I will give you that my brother

_____________________________

True masters, true subs and slaves, X many years in the lifestyle, Old Guard this and High Protocol that--it's like a convention of D&D nerds were allowed to have sex once, and they decided to make a religion out of it.

(in reply to Teachme59)

Post #: 87

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/28/2007 2:46:43 PM

EvilGeoff

Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Teachme59

Now tell me the truth….. has an online discussion of this type ever changed your mind about anything?
Butch

While this was addressed to Faramir, I'll answer as well.

Directly? No. Indirectly? Absolutely.

A good online discussion can pique my curiousity, send my thoughts in other directions. I'll research, dig, learn... and sometimes come to a very different opinion from the one I originally held. Life is a learning process, if I stop learning, I've probably stopped living. And I'm not so egotisical as to think I'm infallible, nor so hidebound as to hold on to an opinion when new facts and information indicate my previous opinion needs to be "seriously updated". *LOL*

YIK,
- Geoff

(in reply to Teachme59)

Post #: 88

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/28/2007 2:57:05 PM

Teachme59

Posts: 47
Joined: 5/10/2006
Status: offline

EvilGeoff...I have found in my many years...wish I had a few back....that I very seldom change my mind during a heated debate. I am too competitive for that. But later.. reason often finds its way thru the cracks. Otherwise, my mind...such as it is can be changed.
I think that is a sign of intelligence and reason and I believe you have both. I am so glad that you will soon be changing your mind…lol
No really thanks for the spirited discussion.

Butch

(in reply to EvilGeoff)

Post #: 89

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/28/2007 3:25:33 PM

maledave7

Posts: 142
Joined: 8/4/2006
Status: offline

I feel that in my life I have different areas. I know they over lap sometimes. I know that my parents had sex. They just did not talk about the details.
I am still looking to find a Domme. I feel the relationship would be like any other relationship most of the time. I would always want to submit to my Domme more so in private than in public.

(in reply to Masterspetbri)

Post #: 90

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/28/2007 3:53:03 PM

HornyToadsMI

Posts: 287
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline

masterspetbri -
i would say, do what works best for Y/you two. W/we have two children, and i am very Domme in my business life (W/we are self employed). i give to him in more subtle ways at work, and less subtly at home. Ask your Master how He wishes you to handle it. No two D/s couples are the same......

toadette

(in reply to Owned1)

Post #: 91

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/28/2007 4:17:01 PM

lovewithoutfear

Posts: 153
Joined: 7/11/2005
Status: offline

"We are now entirely out to our what appears to be a very mundane neighborhood in small city Indiana (granted it is a univerity town). No one cares, heck we get invited to events around the neighborhood all the time and we talk to our neighbors all the time. "

We haven't "come out" in so many words, but we don't hide our poly lifestyle from our neighbors in small-town Wisconsin, either. No one seems to have turned a hair.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 92

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/28/2007 7:56:37 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

For me, there is no distinct line in my life where "vanillaland" ends & "BDSMland" begins. i have always lived within a blend of both worlds, without any difficulty. Perhaps that's because i have never had a lot of strict protocol to follow. At least, nothing that would cause me to stand out or make anyone think anything other than "she is very respectful and devoted".

When i speak to my Master, i always address Him as "Master" or as "Sir", no matter where W/we are or who else is around. The only time i refer to my Master by His given name is during introductions.

i always walk behind Him. i always get Him whatever He wants/needs, be it a drink or food or the newspaper or His shoes, etc. Both my daughter and His mother have spent a lot of time with U/us and they have seen me regularly take His shoes and socks off, "wait on Him, hand and foot", and, basically, "pamper" Him. Both have made comments that He treats me like "a slave", but have laughed it off. They also know that i sleep on His floor and that hasn't been questioned by either of them.

Maybe others have much more strict protocol to follow but, for U/us, W/we simply live O/our lives in a way that fits and feels good for U/us. W/we just aren't that much into a lot of ritual and protocol. Nevertheless, He is always in control and He is always the boss and He is always my Master, no matter where W/we are or what W/we are doing.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

quote:

ORIGINAL: Masterspetbri

I am sure this has been posted and discussed many times, but would like other thoughts ideas from others on this topic.
How do you deal with a BDSM-24/7 relationship with the vanilla world pressures? (from children, work to the actual relationship and being able to follow protocol)
I would be interested in hearing all aspects of this......
Thank you,
Thank you,
Master’s pet
bri

(in reply to Masterspetbri)

Post #: 93

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/29/2007 10:00:43 AM

eveningtwilight

Posts: 48
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline

I think it can be quite tricky to balance everything. Just because someone wears black leather and 6" heels at home, does not mean they can do that at their job, unless they want fired. Just because someone enjoys a good disciplining, does not mean they want the weeones to watch it, because in the end they need to respect their parents, and they can't respect one if they are treated worse than the family dog, and you don't want to give them nightmeres. Plus, they talk. And the last thing you want is DCFS knocking at your door. Ya, there's a reality check!

I can understand where you're coming from. It can be quite difficult. Best advice I can offer is know everybody's needs and schedules, and maximize your tollerance of patience. It may be a need to not behave certain ways in front of weeones, but instead perhaps there's a code word he can say which will let you know that once you are alone "x" will happen.

Finding a way for you to spend some time at hotels may help.
Hiring a contractor to redo the bedroom walls to make them sound proof may help.
Although it is prime to have a set schedule where everyone turns in at a certain time, may help you be able to anticipate your alone time.
Maybe he can create lists that you can do for him throughout the day to offer mental domination.

I'd just sit down and discuss the things you want to accomplish and the things you want to avoid and then brainstorm ways to accomplish it all. Every game plan needs altering from time to time as life situations change, but at least you'll have a foundation to work with.

(in reply to Masterspetbri)

Post #: 94

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/29/2007 10:06:07 AM

BeautySleeping

Posts: 14
Joined: 5/25/2007
Status: offline

As I had stated in an earlier post on this, the dynamics of our relationship are always there whether we are public or private. People just see us as a very respectful couple and call me an attentive wife. We don't need outward symbols to prove anything to anyone, especially ourselves. The comment I made about the "discreet hair tugging" was not meant to say that we NEED to do that in order for him to have control over me. It was simply an example to the OP of the little things that can and do happen from time to time, really no different from affectionate hand holding. I haven't been on the forum long, but I am surprised by how many on here are quick to over analyze and word pick a post to death. It's been my experience of those in the BDSM community to be the most respectful, open minded and the last to judge anyone for their beliefs and practices. Every couple, every person is unique...it doesn't mean my way is the right or wrong way for you or vice versa.

In any event, someone mentioned "coming out" vs hiding, and although we've never felt the need to do either, it did remind me of a funny story that happened a couple of years ago.

We had gone on a cruise with a group of friends and family. His mother ( 76 ), his aunt ( 80), our sons ( college age ), their girlfriends and others were all there. During one of the days there was a contest called "the newlywed game" with four couples. We got picked as one of the couples, it's a second marriage for the both of us....so up on the stage we went. One of the questions asked of the women was "What would we most likely hear you say to your partner following sex" I think I turned three shades of red, thinking, "ohhh great, now what"? Well, I did want to win, lol. The MC came around and read his answer first, he had written, "Thank you Sir". Then he read mine which was, "Thank you Master". The crowd cheered and applauded, the MC raised his eyebrows and said, "hmmmm...a little kinky are we"?? LOL Afterwards one of his sons walked up and said that he would bill us for therapy later ( he was joking of course, but I think for the first time he didn't know what to say lol ) The mother of my son's girlfriend came running up to us all excited, talking 90 mph about her also being a slave and "her date" was also her Master. Also that her daughter and my son knew about us because of something they found on my computer, they just never had said anything about it. Soooo, I guess you could say that we "came out".....not exactly in a straightforward manner I suppose, but at least we won the game.

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 95

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/29/2007 10:34:38 AM

lateralist1

Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

Whay a great story. It's good to know that other's have real life situations which could cause one to lie but they decide not to and it all turns out right in the end.
Your experience shows that we never really know about people until someone is honest which then allows everyone else to be as well. The truth sets you free.

(in reply to BeautySleeping)

Post #: 96

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/29/2007 11:44:46 AM

pamela700

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

this just made me think of something my partner and i say all the time...we don't have a lifeSTYLE, we have a life!

and yeah, we're not 24/7 in the least, but i still view my actions for him as services.

just my .02

---p

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 97

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/29/2007 12:58:19 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Teachme59

AquaticSub... you are right I don't care about your bowel movement... maybe bank account though. I keep getting accused of missing the point...when I believe others are missing the point. If you were to have children and if your lifestyle were to be made public... your children could be subjected to ridicule… this is just an example but a very real one. This is what I am talking about and what we need to be careful about.

Butch

Just an aside, as I know this was directed at Aquatic..........I've four children, ranging from 13 yrs to 26 yrs. All of them know precisely what my relationship with M is. Any friends of theirs that spend time around us, will know within a fairly short space of time that we live a faintly different way. .....as will anyone else.

MY children find their friend's families *different*.........every single one of them. My children don't ridicule the friend that has a horribly overbearing father, or the one's whose parents monitor their every spare moment or ANY of the myriad of *oddnesses* they come across; they know that every family is a mini-culture of its own.

Son No1 suffered piss-taking for his dyslexia.......Son No4 found that his slightly *camp* mannerisms caused teasing at Cub-Scout Camp....and so on and so forth. They've all had to get through some tough times and their Mother being *owned* hasn't figured remotely in that. The fact that others aren't always *nice* or open-minded or accepting, is something they found out all by themselves in the playground when they were four yrs old.

The way we live is ONE of many different ways of living.....no reason to hide ours, at all

agirl

(in reply to Teachme59)

Post #: 98

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/29/2007 2:52:54 PM

Teachme59

Posts: 47
Joined: 5/10/2006
Status: offline

Hi agirl

Glad things are working for you. I am a believer in humane nature and if managing a BDSM lifestyle were impossible then there would be few BDSM relationships. The fact that there are so many and so varied says that it is very possible with common sense and care.
I will bet that at certain times of your children’s lives you were at least worried about how things would all work out. I’ll bet you still worry if your relationship will have a long-term effect. But in any case you have done an excellent job.
The point I am trying to make over and over is you must be vigilant and always aware that there can be problems because of your relationship.
It does no good to stick heads in the sand and say all people. ..friends, family, department of child care…. Police officers… other children and parents will be understanding and pose no threat. That could just be asking for heartbreak.
All through my posts I have just been advocating that care and watchfulness. If I made a mistake was in using words like hide rather than discretion. I used the word shame and that got a big response. I did not mean those in the lifestyle should be ashamed but a lot of family will be even if they do not tell you. They just do not understand… I believe this is the truth… you can explain to some people until the end of time and they will not understand anymore than they can understand homosexuality. This is just another fact of life that cannot be avoided all the time.
Butch

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 99

RE: BDSM vs Vanilla - The Real World - 5/30/2007 2:40:49 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Teachme59

Hi agirl

Glad things are working for you. I am a believer in humane nature and if managing a BDSM lifestyle were impossible then there would be few BDSM relationships. The fact that there are so many and so varied says that it is very possible with common sense and care.
I will bet that at certain times of your children’s lives you were at least worried about how things would all work out. I’ll bet you still worry if your relationship will have a long-term effect. But in any case you have done an excellent job.
The point I am trying to make over and over is you must be vigilant and always aware that there can be problems because of your relationship.
It does no good to stick heads in the sand and say all people. ..friends, family, department of child care…. Police officers… other children and parents will be understanding and pose no threat. That could just be asking for heartbreak.
All through my posts I have just been advocating that care and watchfulness. If I made a mistake was in using words like hide rather than discretion. I used the word shame and that got a big response. I did not mean those in the lifestyle should be ashamed but a lot of family will be even if they do not tell you. They just do not understand… I believe this is the truth… you can explain to some people until the end of time and they will not understand anymore than they can understand homosexuality. This is just another fact of life that cannot be avoided all the time.
Butch

Hi Butch,

I've never had a single *worry* whether my relationship will have a longterm effect.........I sincerely hope it HAS. It's a good and positive thing.

I don't spend time explaining my life to other people and I don't nose around other people's lives either. To be frank, it's only of passing interest to others.

M/s is the way my relationship is ordered, that's all; it doesn't mean we've lost all sense of courtesy and discretion. In the greater scheme of our lives, its really not much to write home about.

agirl

(in reply to Teachme59)

Post #: 100

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