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[Poll]

golliwogs - racially offensive?


I'm black/Afro-Caribbean; I find them offensive
  7% (3)
I'm black/Afro-Caribbean; I dont find them offensive
  4% (2)
I'm not black/Afro Caribbean; I find them offensive
  36% (15)
I'm not black/Afro-Caribbean; I dont find them offensive
  51% (21)


Total Votes : 41
(last vote on : 8/12/2007 7:50:26 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 1:55:50 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I think that's a stupid law, incidentally, and I doubt it would be Constitutional in the U.S.  Victims' perceptions should not play a role in determining the nature of a crime.  If you want to have a category called "hate crime," the criterion should be the criminal's intent, not the victim's perception.

(Actually, I remember discussing this on CM a while back.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

A "hate crime" here can be reported by the victim or a third party witness. An offence is treated as a hate crime if the victim or a third party witness perceives the commissioning of the offence to have been motivated by hate for a particular group. Upon conviction, the penalty for offences treated as hate crimes is increased by comparison to non hate crime instances.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 1:55:56 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

i too had to look up the word golliwog to be sure what it was... personally i think it is just a ugly doll regardless of the color of the cloth it is made from... 


Somehow when we were children, we had a golliwog. When my mom's best friend from school visited from Australia (she had emigrated) and brought her little daughter with her (aged about four I think), we gave her the golliwog to play with and she took it home.

Anyway, 30 odd years on, only a year or so ago, the woman that that little girl grew into was found dead from a heroin overdose in the toilets of a Melbourne pub. Its strange to wonder about the life of that little girl, so shy and quiet and in a strange land with strange people and being given a strange toy to play with basically because we didnt want it. How did she come to such an end? And I wonder too what happened to the golliwog, which was missed as soon as he was gone, so must have been loved really. And what did that say about our attitudes? That he was unwanted because we knew what he was meant to be?

E

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 2:28:49 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

What is a "gollywog?"
And, if anonymous sources can "report" you for this kind of thing you do truly live in a police-state!


http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/golliwog/

They make me feel a bit queasy inside. Oddly Little Black Sambo never bothered me, I loved that book as a little girl but the golliwogs have always bothered me on a visceral level.


Sorry, I just don't see it as "racist."
What about a White doll? Wouldn't that then be "racist" as well?
Hey, let's outlaw all dolls!
This stinks to high heavens of  ***Political Correctness!***

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 2:36:17 PM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		popeye the reason I consider this with the view I have is because of the history behind this.
It isn't a new toy. It's basis was caricature (sp) in a most unkind way.
It's cool that you are enlightened enough to look past the :
The Golliwog (originally spelled Golliwogg) is the least known of the major anti-Black caricatures in the United States. Golliwogs are grotesque creatures,1 with very dark, often jet black skin, large white-rimmed eyes, red or white clown lips, and wild, frizzy hair
 
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck then chances are that it isn't an armadillo.

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(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 4:38:26 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

popeye the reason I consider this with the view I have is because of the history behind this.
It isn't a new toy. It's basis was caricature (sp) in a most unkind way.
It's cool that you are enlightened enough to look past the :
The Golliwog (originally spelled Golliwogg) is the least known of the major anti-Black caricatures in the United States. Golliwogs are grotesque creatures,1 with very dark, often jet black skin, large white-rimmed eyes, red or white clown lips, and wild, frizzy hair
 
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck then chances are that it isn't an armadillo.


CJenny,....shit, that could be that doll on saturday night live!
"Mr. Bill" was it? The one who always got the crap kicked out of him?
Ahhh,.......we're talking about a fucking DOLL here, something made out of cloth and buttons!
Who gives a shit what people thought about 100 years ago?
I don't know about anyone else in here but I don't go through life wondering if someone "might" be "offended" at something I say or do.
If they are, fuck 'em, that's their problem not mine.
As I've said before, it's not against the law to "offend" someone much less "think you might" "offend" someone.
That's just sick anal-retentive shit, or "political correctness."

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 5:07:08 PM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		'I' find it racially offensive. 'I' find the history behind the doll along the lines of minstrels, ornamental (not sure what they are called) post holders in the yard shaped like old black men in livery.
'I' personally find that offensive.
popeye there is no way I'm getting into any kind of debate with you over how it is possible for 'me' to see it the way I do.

It isn't about worrying if it offends anyone else, the posts were how I personally felt about the historical background & what it means.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 5:15:15 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		General reply -
 
Here are links to Spike Lee's 2000 film "Bamboozled" which addresses the Minstrel Shows,
with the Jim Crow and Zeb Coon characters.
 
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0215545/

http://www.bamboozledmovie.com/index.html

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great day, I will tease you all the same."
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http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to cjenny)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 5:20:12 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

The things you learn on CM!

I had never heard of them.


Sorry, I HAD to ask this, but... have you ever heard of anything much?



after edit: and LadyE, isn't it interesting how in your survey, nobody from an African background answered? Is the minority still unheard?

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 5/31/2007 5:22:53 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 5:27:26 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Laughing...love the claws...

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 5:41:41 PM   
lilsubl


Posts: 4595
Joined: 2/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

The things you learn on CM!

I had never heard of them.


Sorry, I HAD to ask this, but... have you ever heard of anything much?



after edit: and LadyE, isn't it interesting how in your survey, nobody from an African background answered? Is the minority still unheard?


meow.....LMAO


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(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 6:16:24 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Thank you, thank you... I have them clawdicured as often as can possibly be

*curtesy*

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 6:18:54 PM   
Rumtiger


Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		They just freak me the hell out.

And the names you Brits come up with, jeez, how do you expect any American to comprehend what your saying?

< Message edited by Rumtiger -- 5/31/2007 6:20:15 PM >

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Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
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(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 6:28:01 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Wot're you sayin', mate? You don't understand when we call some cunt a gobshite?

*looking out for the moderators now and ducking way fast*

By the way, if you'd like some lessons in British slang, huh, perhaps... we could... come to some...

... arrangement?



WOOOOOOT! Business is business, innit!

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 6:36:42 PM   
Rumtiger


Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		Cunts part of our vernacular as well, so we're cool there.

As for the arrangement...

Well...be careful, you scratch, I bite.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 6:46:54 PM   
tatangel


Posts: 507
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Actually I did read the links, that does not change what I think. Sorry if that bothers you that I have a different opinion from you.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 6:54:34 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		What do you mean? You're not very clear, are you.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 7:20:00 PM   
HydroMaster


Posts: 4786
Joined: 9/24/2005
Status: offline 		Intresting, can't say I've ever even heard of one until now.  They do have a certain historical element to them but it seems like something for home display or a museum as an example of where we came from.  It seems ridiculous to me to have it in your car window though....get a suction cup garfield.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 7:39:18 PM   
tatangel


Posts: 507
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Not very clear? Ok, here you go. I stated that I did not find it offensive that this man chose to display his hobby, I think people enjoy getting worked up over these type of things, and that there is always someone somewhere who will be offended by something, that does'nt mean that I think it is appropriate to demand change because of that. As I said, my opinion. Arguing about it with me or flaming me because of it won't change it.You have your opinion, I have mine.

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It used to be that being crazy meant something...now everybody's crazy.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 7:44:10 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Wooo hooo, tatangel, no flaming involved, I don't believe in burning people. So, okay, this time around you were fairly clear... but a little riled up, weren't you.



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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: golliwogs - racially offensive? - 5/31/2007 8:15:43 PM   
tatangel


Posts: 507
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		The ''I am right, therefore you are wrong'' attitude kills me. I don't know if that was where you were going or not, so I really wanted to be clear on my stance. Sorry if it came off as bitchy.

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It used to be that being crazy meant something...now everybody's crazy.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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