quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

FR: 

Nothing in and of itself can be uniformly defined as "offensive" to all people. 

Feeling offended by something or someone is a personal choice that, at the end of the day, only affects the offendEE.

quote:

marietoo
Symbols" are subjective, and "intent" is hardly something that can be proven, and things that "offend" others is a variable.  Therefore the statement highlighted in red cannot be taken as a fact.  
What will offend one person wouldn't offend another.  The differing viewpoints in this thread are a display of that.  Who cares what someone's intent is if they give you the middle finger, for instance?  You can choose to be offended and report them for sexual harassement, or you can shrug it off.

quote:

marietoo
Then you have a choice to make; either feel offended or not.  They are still going to be in someone's car window.

quote:

marietoo
Then don't display one.  I didnt even know what they were until this thread.  I personally wouldnt have the desire to display one, but I certainly respect someone else's right to see it as whatever symbol they see it as.

I got tired of quoting you....You make a horribly lackluster  analogy to something as inocuos as a bullwhip and try to compare that to the golliwogs..........You have gone on and on.

quote:

I am parking my car outside of your house and in the window will be a sign that reads, "marietoo is a ignorant useless subhuman piece of crap.".....Would you be offended?

That would only speak of you, not about me.  Feel free to call me what you like.  At the end of the day...or the middle of it for that matter, you are not significant to me and I would likely not file a lawsuit for harassement, because you have the right to think of me however you would like.  And you probably have the right to call me names, though posting someones personal name, rather than a symbol of a fat person,  would probably borderline on criminal. 

quote:

Yes it is possible the person who put the golliwog on display is dumb, maybe thinks that they are adorable or maybe the person feels that blacks are a subhuman race....either way it is extremely easy why some people if not the majority might be offended by that person's actions.

I spoke to a much broader point of view in my original post and it was in regards to questions on the poll about feeling offended by something. 

quote:

I find it incredibly assinine when someone makes the argument....Well, I'm Irish, and you can say that all Irish are drunks and it won't phase me a bit! Or that all Italians are in the mafia.....Is that a comparison to what people of African decent have had to endure?...It is incredibly short sighted if not blantantly showing a glaring ignorance as well as a tremendous lack of compassion.

Thats not the argument I made at all.  Its the argument you need to see in order to support your position.  Again, I was speaking about feeling personally offended about things and how we can choose to react.

quote:

I don't understand your argument.

Im not asking you to.


_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.

(in reply to domiguy)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

No. I took it out because it was specific to you....I thought you might possibly be overweight and it could be thought of as a personal attack and therefore against TOS.  The golliwog is a caricature showing a particular group of people as being less than human.

And I take it by calling me "domiboy" that you might be a little offended....Funny how it all works isn't it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

No. I took it out because it was specific to you....I thought you might possibly be overweight and it could be thought of as a personal attack and therefore against TOS.  The golliwog is a caricature showing a particular group of people as being less than human.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I don't.  Too easy for you to say it was an "honest mistake"..... It refutes everything that you have been arguing for hours......Sucks doesn't it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

My work here is done. I tire of you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBBTBW


I wonder how someone can out grow blatent smacks of racism.  As I said earlier whatever verbal reason he gave about displaying such an offensive symbol, the mere fact that he did it shows us his mindset.  Honestly do you really deep down think this man  put it on his car simply because he collects them.  Do you honestly believe he didn't give a thought to the social and societal implications of his display?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Thing is, marie, you are defending freedom of speech and expression at all cost; it's your belief.

Personally I prefer to put reason before belief.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

The first thing would have to be someone feeling offended or righteous enough to file a civil complaint about something that they felt was "flaunting" a "symbol of black slavery".   Then the courts would have to decide if the defendant's  "flaunting" was against the law, what the defendant's intention was, and whether or not he/she did any damage to another human being.  Then of course a court would pass down a judgement.  Isn't that what is going on in the golliwog case?    

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBBTBW


I wonder how someone can out grow blatent smacks of racism.  As I said earlier whatever verbal reason he gave about displaying such an offensive symbol, the mere fact that he did it shows us his mindset.  Honestly do you really deep down think this man  put it on his car simply because he collects them.  Do you honestly believe he didn't give a thought to the social and societal implications of his display?

Yes I can believe that he did this without giving it a thought - most likely because he is one of those people who like me I hope, dont think of any connection any longer and see it just as a toy, or because he's one of the large proportion of the population incapable of reasoning the possible consequences to others of his actions.

Also maybe relevant is that the town where this occurred (Leek) is very small, quite rural and there might not be many or even any AC people living there. Thats not an excuse, but may have gone some way to the guy not thinking it could be a problem too, should he have poor attitudes.

E

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBBTBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBBTBW


I wonder how someone can out grow blatent smacks of racism.  As I said earlier whatever verbal reason he gave about displaying such an offensive symbol, the mere fact that he did it shows us his mindset.  Honestly do you really deep down think this man  put it on his car simply because he collects them.  Do you honestly believe he didn't give a thought to the social and societal implications of his display?

Yes I can believe that he did this without giving it a thought - most likely because he is one of those people who like me I hope, dont think of any connection any longer and see it just as a toy, or because he's one of the large proportion of the population incapable of reasoning the possible consequences to others of his actions.

Also maybe relevant is that the town where this occurred (Leek) is very small, quite rural and there might not be many or even any AC people living there. Thats not an excuse, but may have gone some way to the guy not thinking it could be a problem too, should he have poor attitudes.

E

When we forget about history, we are doomed to repeat it.  I appreciate the fact that perhaps you don't see skin color but see people as people.  I am that way as well.  However, when I choose to do something that has social implications, I do think twice about it and what those implications may bring about. 

Most black people that live in "civilized societies" are reminded every day in one way or another that they are black.  It's not like we can forget nor do we want to but when it is pushed in your face every day, you are going to react negatively to certain symbols of your racial ancestry and the hatred and mistreatment that ensued.  You are going to recall all the racist attitudes that you have ever been the recipient of, you are going to recall the continuing mistreatment of yourself and others of your race simply because of your skin color. 

Are there any organized non-minority hating groups?  Here we have a few minority hating groups, Skin Heads, KKK just to name a couple.  They are proud of their philosophies.  Tell me who perpetrates more hate crimes than anyone else?  It's not minorities.  This is why we get up in arms.  It's not oversensitivity as someone said, It's self protection and letting people know that their seemingly innocent actions are not going un-noticed.  As I said before, if we let the small things slide by, then we won't have the strength to fight the big things. 

Obviously someone needed a wake up call and he got it.  I hope that it has served as a wakeup call for others as well.  I think it has for you, otherwise I don't think you would have started this thread.

The golliwogs are an offensive symbol because of their history.  The things that might have been socially acceptable to a certain group of people in the 70's will not be tolerated in public settings in this day and age. 

For the record, golliwogs and other symbols of this type were NEVER acceptable to Black People.  We just had to tolerate the ignorace that was behind because we weren't strong enough to fight against it like we are now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Yes I can believe that he did this without giving it a thought - most likely because he is one of those people who like me I hope, dont think of any connection any longer and see it just as a toy, or because he's one of the large proportion of the population incapable of reasoning the possible consequences to others of his actions.

Also maybe relevant is that the town where this occurred (Leek) is very small, quite rural and there might not be many or even any AC people living there. Thats not an excuse, but may have gone some way to the guy not thinking it could be a problem too, should he have poor attitudes.

E