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RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/6/2007 8:57:22 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

smokers are suicidal....yeah i said it. ...its true.

now sure they are loathe to admit it, or even contemplate the smallest inference of that universal truth, but denile aint just a river in eygypt, honey.

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)

Post #: 81

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/6/2007 10:35:05 PM

charlotte12

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/9/2006
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It seems to me that the issue is not so much whether smoking is a good hard limit or not but whether hard limits can exist. I feel that the key is that every relationship is different. Some Doms will require that a submissive have no such limits once they give over control and some submissives will wish to be in this kind of a dynamic. However i do not feel that this kind of dynamic is any more "real" then one in which a submissive can state a rule like "no one smokes in my house." For me personally i would not state it in that fashion as i would consider that tone of voice disrespectful but i would not wish to enter into (or stay in) a relationship where i cannot stand up for things that are important to me. I do not believe this makes me any less or more submissive. I believe that such sentiments can exist in a submissive's heart and if this is not true than all those "real" Doms out there are screwed because there are going to be very few "true" submissives from which to choose.

anyway, my point is that all we can ever really do is learn to define D/s for ourselves and what it means to us and then find someone with whom our definition is compatible. i would change my hair for my Master but i would not allow him to control my weight. If he felt less in power because of this then we probably wouldn't get along. I find strength in submission and i find that the more i am discovering my "submissive core" the more i am standing up for my needs in real life and becoming a stronger more confident person. Anyway, that's what it means to me. I respect the people who see it differently and like learning from seeing people talk.

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)

Post #: 82

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/7/2007 6:09:56 AM

divenakedd

Posts: 1
Joined: 3/5/2007
Status: offline

I assume smoking is really just an example, but it is a good example. Like most things, it depends on the relationship.

1) A sub has rights and a sub has a voice.
2) A slave has no rights, but more importantly has no desire to dictate any policy to her Master. A slave would not care what her Master did, only how well she served her Master.
3) Smoking is a real health concern.

Here's how I would determine if the sub/slave has a right to 'demand' a no smoking policy. Does the sub/slave have a safe word? I assume that safe word was given to them to use in dire situations. Smoking is a health concern = dire situation. If the person has a safe word, then they are a submissive. submissive's have rights.

IMO, most relationships are varations of D's relationship with some Master/slave role playing. (usually sexual)

(in reply to MamaDomme)

Post #: 83

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 9:16:11 AM

pinksugarsub

Posts: 1224
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirMGD

pasted below is an email i wrote to a sub friend, who takes quite a hard stance against smoking. I am trying to quit, but haven't yet, and after some heated back and forth, during which she made it clear that "NO ONE smoked in her house", I had these thoughts, and now ask the same of you all, wondering I suppose, where the line is drawn, in a truly D/s household?;

quote:

actually R----, what I'm getting at, and something i invariably inspire;
acceptance, tolerance, and unconditional surrender.

one would think, that a submissive, more especially a SLAVE, like you, and so many others, would cultivate such traits, knowing she must, sooner or later.
What would you do if your master, who you'd been collared to for years, and whom you adored and loved, decided to start smoking? Would you dump him? ask to be released? Try to stop him? How would you exert your will? What if it were his house, or even better, you were married, so it belonged to you both legally?

I use smoking as an example, because you have such a hard stance on it. Nobody smokes in our house huh?..."even you my Master"...lol.

Such rigidity has no place in a truly submissive mind or heart. You might say that a sub has to be that way beforehand, to avoid situations, once surrendered, which she couldn't tolerate. Perhaps, but since most of the available subs I meet seem to have a multitude of similar rigidities, I often wonder if that isn't precisely why they remain available.

Sorry R----, subbies mustn't be ball-busters. Or ever plan to be.
If I ever did smoke in your house, it would be only because I knew you wanted me to, because you'd accepted me, unconditionally. because i'd made you so happy, you wanted to do something, anything, to make me feel comfortable, and I'd know you didn't mind, because you said you didn't.

I know you are incredulous at such a postulation, but it has happened to me before. I'm serious. I think what you fail to see is that a man, me, or any man, could ever make you that happy. So happy you didn't care what his kisses smelled like, or his semen tasted like. They'd be trivialities, and hugely overshadowed by any possibility of the alternative~ not having him.

just some things to ponder dear.
Your friend

thoughts?

i liked Yr email, SirMGD.

i smoke. i belong to a couple of smokers' rights organisations, and i'm pretty active. i vote against anti-smokinng proposals and i evaluate candidates in part on the basis of their voting records on sin taxes, especially on cigarettes.

i tell a Dom in a first convo that i smoke and don't intend to quit. So far, None has decided not to continue speaking to me because of it, though i'm sure there are Doms who would not tolerate smoking by Their submissive.

i hope You have better luck in the future as You continue Yr search, Sir.

pinksugarsub

_____________________________

(in reply to SirMGD)

Post #: 84

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 9:27:33 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
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For me this isn't something that falls under the ds umbrella. This is a matter of common courtesy. If someone doesn't want smoking in their home, it should be their choice.
I am a former smoker who doesn't mind the smell of smoke, but I can smell it long after the butt is put out and tossed away. And I know that if I smell it, guests might also smell it.
This house is mine. I don't want the walls, furniture, windows, clouded by lingering smoke and staleness. I don't want to pay extra to have the smell removed if I should sell it down the line.
In a ds household, presumably it is the smokers house being contaminated. In that household the slave or sub has already made the choice to be there. If it is not the smokers house, then they should grow the fuck up, accept that there rule is not law in all the land, and take that cigarette outside.
People, whether they identify as sub, slave, or what ever, have the right to choose who they want by what ever criteria they are comfortable with using.
I am not a slave, but if I were looking at a long term situation with anyone it makes sense to see where I might not be so compatible.
I am fond of having a home that looks and smells nice.
You propose this as an indication that by not accepting a smoker, someone is not really sub or slave. That is just a load of BS that people use to bully, coerce, or rationalise their own belief. People have choices. If they did not we might as well just hit someone over the head and cart them off into the smoke filled cave.
Kyst

< Message edited by Missokyst -- 6/10/2008 9:42:10 AM >

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to SirMGD)

Post #: 85

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 10:01:43 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

Well, here I go again...

No big secret, beth's a smoker - I hate it on many levels; not the least of which is 'crouchingtigress' accurate observation, "smokers are suicidal". Then again, so are drivers, swimmers, airline passengers. Come to think of it, to date, every person born has been 'suicidal' with the exception of the Jesus' mother Mary who is alleged to have ascended and didn't die. Going in - birth is a death sentence.

But the point of OP is addressing the Master's authority to order a slave to stop smoking. Do I have that authority? Yes. Will I ever use it - No. MY reasoning...(note - not dogma, just mine)

beth smoked when I met her. It was a part of who she was for the first 36 years of her life; or at least the preceding 20 or so. she found this 'lifestyle' when her Doctor suggested to help her quit she should change her 'lifestyle'. When she looked up 'lifestyle' - guess what was returned in the search?! she was 'quiting' when we met. There were some very wild places where the nicotine patch ended up after our first sweaty sessions. she's been a very successful 'quitter' now on her 5th year of trying to quit. I'm confident that one order from me would end her smoking. I don't do it, because it would represent change.

I don't want to change the woman I met. her smoking is a factor in her relaxing; she enjoys it, I tolerate it. I tolerate it much easier than I can tolerate her not smoking. The break from the chemicals involved with smoking result in change physiologically and psychologically. In 5 years she's never smoked in any closed area we shared, never inside the house, never in a hotel room. When/if she is ready I will help her. Most likely I'll use 'lifestyle' methods to help facilitate the process; but its a 'hard limit' for me to change this core aspect of her unilaterally.

Compromise or rationalization? - You be the judge. Unlike many who commit to a person with the expectation to 'change' them once in a relationship I had, and have, no desire to change anything about beth. Besides she's 10 years younger than me. We figure the smoking puts us at an equal health age and our deaths will be better timed.

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 86

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 10:02:52 AM

bashfulhuck

Posts: 119
Joined: 5/26/2008
Status: offline

Lot's of stuff here to think about that's for sure. I'm a non-smoker, but am ok with being in a relationship with a smoker so long as certain courtesies are honored. The big one being, please don't smoke inside my living space.
I've worked as a bouncer for nearly 20 years now, and was getting to the point that I was having severe health issues from working inside of a closed space with all that smoke day in and day out. I was never happier than when Washington State passed the no smoking laws inside public buildings. There were alot of people crying and whining that it would be the end of business for bars. In fact, I've noticed that if anything, the clubs I work in have gotten busier.
I don't preach about smoking, I don't care if someone chooses to smoke, it's none of my business. However, if they begin to impact my health and well being in a significant way, then it becomes my business. Yes smokers should have rights, but not the right to negatively impact my health without my consent.
Ok so now that soapbox is played out, on to the next one.
It does not make me any less of a submissive because of my attitudes about smoking. I won't go into a D/s relationship without prior negotiation. Smoking would be part of that. For a so called Dominant to try to coerce a submissive into letting him have his way by trying to twist her thoughts and making her believe she's not a true sub because of her hard limit just smacks of idiocy. For me, a true Dominant respects their property, allows their property to have a voice, and is concerned for their property's health. You want to poison yourself, go right ahead, but don't try to guilt the submissive into allowing you to poison her as well.
Some would say i'm not a true submissive because i won't bend my knee to just any Dom/Domme. i would argue that makes me an even better submissive, because when i do bow before a Domina, my submission actually has value. i'm not just anyone's bitch afterall.

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 87

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 10:40:57 AM

TwoNYCDommes

Posts: 237
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline

I have no issues with smoking or smokers (though my partner does), so I'm going to ignore that side of the question and focus on the suggestion that it is somehow wrong or inappropriate for a sub/slave to take a hard stance against you and others in general doing something that she dislikes, simply because her orientation is such that she may eventually give someone else the power to make such decisions for her. Perhaps if she were to acquire a master/mistress her policy that "NO ONE smoked in her house" would change. Or, perhaps it would not (either because her master/mistress agreed with her position, or because limits were allowed in their particular D/s relationship). In either case, using the fact that an eventual master/mistress might overrule her someday as a battering ram to argue against her exerting her own will in any way now is ridiculous. You might as well tell her she should fall to her knees before everyone she meets, since she might eventually do that for a master/mistress.
We expect our submissives to obey us, not bend to the will of everyone who asks them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirMGD
If I ever did smoke in your house, it would be only because I knew you wanted me to, because you'd accepted me, unconditionally. because i'd made you so happy, you wanted to do something, anything, to make me feel comfortable, and I'd know you didn't mind, because you said you didn't.

Or, perhaps, because you bullied her into pretending she felt that way, by telling her that backbones have no place in a submissive's body ("rigidity has no place in a truly submissive mind or heart"), that displaying a will of her own makes her undesireable, and that she should fear losing you if she dares express her opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirMGD
something i invariably inspire; acceptance, tolerance, and unconditional surrender.

Apparently not.

(in reply to SirMGD)

Post #: 88

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 10:46:04 AM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
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I haven't read the thread, but people who think that a submissive/slave/whatever's opinions, preferences, limits, interests, values, and such don't come into play when deciding whether or not a relationship works or doesn't work are NAIVE at best.

It always comes down to what your willing to take and what your willing to compromise on. Since, personally, I am not holding out on finding a perfect match in my lifetime anymore than I am planning my retirement off a future winning lottery ticket, the Dominant gets included in that equation as well even if he is moving less towards middle ground then the submissive is.

Edited to Add : Personally, I have contigencies in place to ensure that submissive's smoke doesn't influence my health or the smell of my living quarters until the point comes when she is fully ready to quit. Quitting smoking is a huge challenge. It took me a year to finnally let it go completely. It takes a lot more motivation on an internal level then a Dominant simply saying "Okay...stop smoking"

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 6/10/2008 10:48:29 AM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to SirMGD)

Post #: 89

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 11:44:08 AM

maxfalke

Posts: 3
Joined: 6/10/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I smoke. At this time I choose not to quit. Therefore, I will not develop a relationship with someone who says I must quit. It is a non-negotiable point just as others are. How do I deal with it? The men that I am currently speaking with are also smokers. It is now a non-issue.

As for the "in the house" issue. To me, it isn't about health. I don't think that the OP was looking to open a debate on the studies for smoking. It was more a matter of who has the right to demand to smoke or not.

If someone comes to my house, they are going to have to deal with the fact that I smoke in my house. If I go to someone else's house (or even ride in their car) and they do not smoke in those places, I don't smoke there. It isn't a matter of domination or submission. It is a matter of courtesy and respect for the host/hostess of the home you are in.

If I didn't smoke in my house and my partner wanted to smoke in the house the answer would be no. As long as it is MY house and I am paying the bills, I have say so over certain activities in my house. If a "master" said he was going to piss on YOUR brand new carpet, that YOU paid for, just because he was "master" and had the right to do it, would you let him? I don't think so.

In the case of a mutually owned home, I would think and hope that these issues had long since been worked out before buying the place.

"A chinaman pissed on my rug"

_____________________________

"It's that rat circus out there, I'm beginning to enjoy it. Look, any longer out on that road and I'm one of them, a terminal psychotic, except that I've got this bronze badge that says that I'm one of the good guys."

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 90

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 11:51:42 AM

awakenednj

Posts: 657
Joined: 2/10/2008
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I have the opposite end from the OP. I was a smoker, and in the last month quit. I was very polite about it. Never in my car when a non smoker or my um was present. car windows almost always open so that the smell would not stay strongly. never in anyones face about it. Although I never hid it, most people were surprised that I smoked at all when i told them i quit.

Yeah, I know that there are a million reasons to quit, but the one that gave me the push I needed was that my Sir told me he did not like the taste or smell. He never *quite* made it an order, but he very much wanted me to quit, and I have.

I think in the OP you may have used a phrase that gets people on edge around here.. "truly D/s household". Other than that I kind of see your point. There were things I told other potentials that I would never do... but for Sir it turns out I will. Things i would never seek out, but if He's the one asking its just different. Somebody has a sigline that mentions this... something about the limits you set for yourself just might be for comfort... and wont show what you are really capable of. I know i needed someone who would push me. But I lucked out in finding someone who could see me and what i needed.

One more thought... sometimes what turns you away from someone you just dont have words for and its really easy to just latch onto whatever small thing made you uncomfortable even though its not the heart of it.. just because you CAN describe it. If somebody was making smoking that much of an issue with a person they were considering letting into their lives (BDSM, vanilla or rasberry swirl) I would soo be wondering if they had a deeper issue they couldnt find the words for.

sorry for being rambly and take this with whatever grain of salt you think it deserves :)

(in reply to MamaDomme)

Post #: 91

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 2:49:28 PM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline

In the example above, if my Owner insisted on smoking in my house .. I wouldn't stop Him, because that is His choice to make about His property. It would however do untold damage to the relationship if it became a regular habit, because it would show me He places no value in my health and well-being .. or in fact in His own. In that case I would still be submissive and obedient to His wishes. He has to deal with the consequences of that, and no matter how much I dislike it, or how distateful I find it, I am his property and honouring that comes first.

We make sure that we are compatible with our partners in terms of play, or taste in music, or whatever matters to us. Its also important that you make sure you are compatible in terms of the value you share. I would always want to be obedient to Sir, I am his property and I have committed to always being obedient, that my will is always subject to his. There are somethings however that I simply could not be obedient about, and even though it would break my heart, I could not even make the first step in obeying because it just goes against a value so deeply held that it has more power even than my submission.

As an example .. if Sir ordered me to have an abortion, it simply would not happen. Whatever reasons He had for it, my health, the babies health, financial concerns, him not wanting another child ... none of it would touch me .. I would never have an abortion. I would never *ever* prevent any woman from having one, but I simply cannot support that abortion is valid. My reasons are deeply interlinked with my faith, and it would just never happen. Under no circumstances would I be able to have an abortion. So if Sir ordered it, and the cost of my disobedience was the relationship then Sir has effectively made that decision for me.

I am a slave, and I will always do my very best to be obedient. I am not perfect though, and there are some things, some values and beliefs .. that are worth more to me even than my slavery. .. and I dont mind paying the price for that if needs be .. even if that price is my collar.

There is only so much damage like that a relationship can take. I have said this elsewhere, when the cost of serving outweighs the Value of being Owned .,.. I am outta there.

< Message edited by softness -- 6/10/2008 3:02:22 PM >

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to awakenednj)

Post #: 92

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 2:57:10 PM

DarkVictory

Posts: 247
Joined: 8/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

[blah blah blah.... SNIP]

As an example .. if Sir ordered me to have an abortion, it simply would not happen. Whatever reasons He had for it, my health, the babies health, financial concerns, him not wanting another child ... none of it would touch me .. I would never have an abortion. I would never *ever* prevent any woman from having one, but I simply cannot support that abortion is valid. My reasons are deeply interlinked with my faith, and it would just never happen. Under no circumstances would I be able to have an abortion. So if Sir ordered it, and the cost of my disobedience was the relationship then Sir has effectively made that decision for me.

[and more snippage of random crap]

Jesus jucking christ masturbating through the hand holes you have a lot of impossibly true opinions.

The post above from you is not true. First, from this moment onwards, you regard your religion as having no business interfering with your reproduction and the politics thereof. Second, you're now quite clear that a zygote is worth far less than a healthy relationship. Work the rest out for yourself.

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 93

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 3:25:20 PM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline

If Sir wanted to smoke in my house then that is exactly what would happen. It is His choice, I am His property, He decides what is right for me.

I posted previously that I would not be obedient to His decision if it conflicted with my relgious beliefs. I now see that this was wrong. Sir has informed me that it is just plain prideful to believe my own religious beliefs are more valuable than His wishes about my reproduction. He is right of course, if He instructed me to have an abortion because to have the baby would destroy the relationship, then of course He is right and I would follow His wishes. I amde the infomed consensual decision to have Sir control every aspect of my life, and that includes my reproduction and how I judge the health and wellbeing of the relationship.

I apologise for posting incorrectly before.

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to awakenednj)

Post #: 94

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 3:29:08 PM

DarkVictory

Posts: 247
Joined: 8/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

If Sir wanted to smoke in my house then that is exactly what would happen. It is His choice, I am His property, He decides what is right for me.

I posted previously that I would not be obedient to His decision if it conflicted with my relgious beliefs. I now see that this was wrong. Sir has informed me that it is just plain prideful to believe my own religious beliefs are more valuable than His wishes about my reproduction. He is right of course, if He instructed me to have an abortion because to have the baby would destroy the relationship, then of course He is right and I would follow His wishes. I amde the infomed consensual decision to have Sir control every aspect of my life, and that includes my reproduction and how I judge the health and wellbeing of the relationship.

I apologise for posting incorrectly before.

Much better. *pats you on the head and hands you a dietetic lolly*

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 95

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 3:39:15 PM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline

thankyou Sir, am happy that you approve

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to DarkVictory)

Post #: 96

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 3:47:00 PM

Constrictor1

Posts: 143
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: Constrictor1
Status: offline

SirMGD,
I am not being snarky or accusatory. I do ask why you don't show a mastery of yourself and quit a deadly habit that not only threatens your health but also apparently is threatening the relationship? Discipline should not just be for the s types.

Constrictor1

(in reply to SirMGD)

Post #: 97

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 4:54:04 PM

Usako

Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

If Sir wanted to smoke in my house then that is exactly what would happen. It is His choice, I am His property, He decides what is right for me.

I posted previously that I would not be obedient to His decision if it conflicted with my relgious beliefs. I now see that this was wrong. Sir has informed me that it is just plain prideful to believe my own religious beliefs are more valuable than His wishes about my reproduction. He is right of course, if He instructed me to have an abortion because to have the baby would destroy the relationship, then of course He is right and I would follow His wishes. I amde the infomed consensual decision to have Sir control every aspect of my life, and that includes my reproduction and how I judge the health and wellbeing of the relationship.

That has to be the sadest thing I've ever seen...he might as well control your very soul and personality, geez. Ignoring your own religious beliefs and health concerns for some man...I don't get it. I don't see how it's "prideful" to believe in something and put whatever faith or god you have before some dude who bangs you.

I'm not religious at all but I don't fault people who are. I also wouldn't want to get into a relationship with someone where my non-religion conflicts with their beliefs because that's just unfair. Same goes for smoking, I wouldn't ever get with a smoker and if the person I was with became a smoker then they'd either have to stop or get the hell out of my life.

I'm not about to be a doormat and let someone walk over me and clash with my values. Smoking is a big no-no and no man (or woman) is worth bending what I believe to be true. Especially if it comes to my health, only a doctor can tell me what's best when it comes to that.

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 98

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 7:34:58 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

:) My son is 21 years old now. I had that choice once. Abort, or have my relationship continue. I raised him on my own with no help from the donor received or wanted. And there was never a regret as I walked away from the man, and chose my child. Considering that my son has been popular and well liked all his life, I think I made the right call.
It had less to do with my religious upbringing than it had to do with seeing my then partner as a selfish ass. I still don't regret it. My body, my choice. And 20+ years of joy.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 99

RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking - 6/10/2008 9:17:29 PM

pinksugarsub

Posts: 1224
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

[blah blah blah.... SNIP]

As an example .. if Sir ordered me to have an abortion, it simply would not happen. Whatever reasons He had for it, my health, the babies health, financial concerns, him not wanting another child ... none of it would touch me .. I would never have an abortion. I would never *ever* prevent any woman from having one, but I simply cannot support that abortion is valid. My reasons are deeply interlinked with my faith, and it would just never happen. Under no circumstances would I be able to have an abortion. So if Sir ordered it, and the cost of my disobedience was the relationship then Sir has effectively made that decision for me.

[and more snippage of random crap]

Jesus jucking christ masturbating through the hand holes you have a lot of impossibly true opinions.

The post above from you is not true. First, from this moment onwards, you regard your religion as having no business interfering with your reproduction and the politics thereof. Second, you're now quite clear that a zygote is worth far less than a healthy relationship. Work the rest out for yourself.

O Gawd, not a hjack to abortion. i beg of You...nothing brings out latent craziness more than than this issue.

pinksugarsub

_____________________________

(in reply to DarkVictory)

Post #: 100

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Submission, slavery, obedience vs. Smoking

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