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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:22:32 PM   
selfbnd411


Posts: 598
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		By all accounts, the young woman came on to the young man.  Why is it only his fault?


quote:

ORIGINAL: LightHeartedMaam

I'm tired of the "it's male hormones" excuse.  Teach your son's some kind of USEFUL control, preferably SELF control.

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:26:58 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411
By all accounts, the young woman came on to the young man.  Why is it only his fault?


In that state is the age of concent 16 or 18?? If he was 17 and she was 15, and the age of concent is 16, then he is suppose to be the 'older' one and he could have told her 'no,' he didn't so he needs to take his punishment like a man. He wanted to play with the big boys, then take the punishment like a man.

Its called 'self-control' the penis does NOT control, the person does. If a man does not have self-control then their are other issues to deal with.

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:28:36 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

At the risk of getting flamed, I agree with the ruling. I do NOT believe that teenagers are mature enough to have sex, the sentence is a bit extreame [10 years is a bit much, 5 would be more reaslistic in my view], but I do agree with the rulling overall. Does the defendant have to register as a 'sex offender' after he gets out??


Well then, why wasn't the girl charged with a crime?  The boy in this case was a teen minor himself at the time of the offense.  By your argument; he is not old enough to understand the ramifications of sex, but he is old enough to know that he could be sent to prison for the act.  You may think that teenagers are too young to have sex, but biology disagrees with you.  There was a time in this society when people got married in their teens, led armies, ran for office, and held powerful positions in the community by their early 20's.  Why is it in the 21st Century we have forced people to remain children until they are 21?  We tell young men and women that they can't drink and they can't have sex, but they are certainly old enough to have their legs blown off in a foreign country.  You can't have it both ways.  

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 6/12/2007 9:31:57 PM >

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:33:22 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dincubus

I am sorry but i disagree with all yall. he perp'd on a kid.. had it videotaped.. he did the crime... he should do the time. so what if it matters that the state legislature repealed the law. he violated it. heck outside of deleware the age of consent is 16 or better. he did it, he messed up, he should serve the sentence...
he is lucky the lil girl was not my child... woulda been a murder trial not a sex crimes trial



My question is this, if it were your daughter that  video taped herself giving a blow job to a young man she was older than him, would you support her being arrested and incarcerated? Or is it only young males held to this standard in your mind?

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:36:12 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dincubus

I am sorry but i disagree with all yall. he perp'd on a kid.. had it videotaped.. he did the crime... he should do the time. so what if it matters that the state legislature repealed the law. he violated it. heck outside of deleware the age of consent is 16 or better. he did it, he messed up, he should serve the sentence...
he is lucky the lil girl was not my child... woulda been a murder trial not a sex crimes trial


Would you have killed your daughter?  She does seem to be a little bit of a slut....But murder seems a little extreme.

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:37:08 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
Well then why wasn't the girl charged with a crime?  The boy in this case was a teenager minor himself at the time of the offense.  By your argument, he is not old enough to understand the ramifications of sex, but he is old enough to know that he could have been sent to prison for the act. 


If the girl was NOT old enough to LEGALLY give concent then it falls on the other person's shoulders {see response to 'selfbnd411'}. Rageing hormones are NO reason, its a lame excuse and a bad one at that.

I was raped twice before age 19, my first consensual experience was when I was 19 with my exhusband. At 15 or 17, was I ready, physically sure, mentally or emotionally, probably not; sex is more thna just a physcial act.  I was also raised differently, I was taught 'safe sex = no sex;' I was raides VERY conservative and my family is STILL mega conservative and religious. I was living on my own when I had sex for the first time consensually; I was 19 and he was 23.

Biology and physiology is an argument all on its own; what is and what is not normal, etc. Whatever 'normal' is.

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:39:52 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline 		juliaoceana brings up a good point.. is this a double standard?!

If a male does it is it a crime? If a female does the SAME act, just with the ages reversed is it a crime? or is it the older person takes the 'responsibility' regardless of gender? Is this a gender issue or is an age issue?

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:40:11 PM   
Pandamonum


Posts: 78
Joined: 6/11/2007
Status: offline 		Well, that settles it.  I'm going to make some popcorn. 

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:42:00 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
Well then why wasn't the girl charged with a crime?  The boy in this case was a teenager minor himself at the time of the offense.  By your argument, he is not old enough to understand the ramifications of sex, but he is old enough to know that he could have been sent to prison for the act. 


If the girl was NOT old enough to LEGALLY give concent then it falls on the other person's shoulders {see response to 'selfbnd411'}. Rageing hormones are NO reason, its a lame excuse and a bad one at that.

I was raped twice before age 19, my first consensual experience was when I was 19 with my exhusband. At 15 or 17, was I ready, physically sure, mentally or emotionally, probably not; sex is more thna just a physcial act.  I was also raised differently, I was taught 'safe sex = no sex;' I was raides VERY conservative and my family is STILL mega conservative and religious. I was living on my own when I had sex for the first time consensually; I was 19 and he was 23.

Biology and physiology is an argument all on its own; what is and what is not normal, etc. Whatever 'normal' is.


The point I am trying to make, slaverosebeauty, is that if the boy was 15 this would never have gone to trial.

But he was 17, and tried as an adult, which makes it one of those slippery slope kinds of things.

I am a bit puzzled why we establish an arbitrary age of 18 as showing a child is now an adult, but when we as a society object to him acting in an immature fashion (like having sex with a consenting minor while he himself is a minor) we try him as an adult.

It does not make any sense to me.

I am sorry, more so than I can possibly express in words, for what you went through.

Sinergy

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:44:33 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		 I personally don't see anything wrong with a 15 and 17 year old getting it on consentually.

However,  If the boy was the age of consent and the girl wasn't, then he broke the law.   If he had been 19 or 21 or 35 and the girl was 15, no one would have a problem labeling him as a sex offender. 

It either has to be right or it has to be wrong for consenting adults to have sexual relations with people under the age of consent.  We can't make it less wrong or more wrong on a case by case basis, depending upon the severity of the age gap. 

I don't think jail time is an appropriate consequence in this case, However, consenting adults should be able and willing to face responsibility for the laws they chose to break. 

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:47:07 PM   
Pandamonum


Posts: 78
Joined: 6/11/2007
Status: offline 		The problem is in the mandatory minimum sentencing which takes the ability for judges to make decisions based on individuals.

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:53:13 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		Yeah, that seems extreme in this particular case, but it wouldn't seem extreme if one party was 13 and the other was 30.

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:54:54 PM   
Pandamonum


Posts: 78
Joined: 6/11/2007
Status: offline 		I agree.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:55:37 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Yeah, that seems extreme in this particular case, but it wouldn't seem extreme if one party was 13 and the other was 30.


Very true, marieToo.

But when I read this thread I keep remembering Paul Hogan saying "ah, just kids having fun" after showing them his knife in Crocodile Dundee.

Sinergy

p.s.  "Thats not a knife, this is a knife."


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:58:36 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

I was raped twice before age 19, my first consensual experience was when I was 19 with my exhusband. At 15 or 17, was I ready, physically sure, mentally or emotionally, probably not; sex is more thna just a physcial act.  I was also raised differently, I was taught 'safe sex = no sex;' I was raides VERY conservative and my family is STILL mega conservative and religious. I was living on my own when I had sex for the first time consensually; I was 19 and he was 23.


I am sorry you got raped.  But this girl was not raped.  She consented to performing oral sex on this boy who was only 2 years older than her.  I don't remember maturing all that much between the ages of 15 and 17.  That is not a huge age difference.  The only thing that changed within that time period of my life was being allowed to drive a car.  Hell, when I was that age if you could prove a financial hardship, you could drive at the age of 14.  You still only have to be 14 in this state to ride a motorcycle.  It is true that this was the law at the time he did this.  But the law was changed right after because it was not designed to go after teenagers having consensual sex.  It was designed to go after pedophiles.  

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 6/12/2007 10:01:00 PM >

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 9:58:59 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

I personally don't see anything wrong with a 15 and 17 year old getting it on consentually.

However,  If the boy was the age of consent and the girl wasn't, then he broke the law.   If he had been 19 or 21 or 35 and the girl was 15, no one would have a problem labeling him as a sex offender. 

It either has to be right or it has to be wrong for consenting adults to have sexual relations with people under the age of consent.  We can't make it less wrong or more wrong on a case by case basis, depending upon the severity of the age gap. 

I don't think jail time is an appropriate consequence in this case, However, consenting adults should be able and willing to face responsibility for the laws they chose to break. 


I would ask this question, what age in GA is it legal to enter into a contract to have a credit card or a car? If it is 17 or older the law makes sense... but I hardly can understand someone not being old enough to sign a contract, yet they can be guilty of depriving a fellow minor of consent.... it is just irrational.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 10:06:24 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

I personally don't see anything wrong with a 15 and 17 year old getting it on consentually.

However,  If the boy was the age of consent and the girl wasn't, then he broke the law.   If he had been 19 or 21 or 35 and the girl was 15, no one would have a problem labeling him as a sex offender. 

It either has to be right or it has to be wrong for consenting adults to have sexual relations with people under the age of consent.  We can't make it less wrong or more wrong on a case by case basis, depending upon the severity of the age gap. 

I don't think jail time is an appropriate consequence in this case, However, consenting adults should be able and willing to face responsibility for the laws they chose to break. 


I would ask this question, what age in GA is it legal to enter into a contract to have a credit card or a car? If it is 17 or older the law makes sense... but I hardly can understand someone not being old enough to sign a contract, yet they can be guilty of depriving a fellow minor of consent.... it is just irrational.


Im not saying that this law, or any other law in particular makes rational sense.  Lots of laws suck as far as I'm concerned.  Unfortunately if you're doing something that comes with legal consequences attached to it, you either have to refrain from doing it, or be very careful not to get caught. 

This might be a stretch, but I think teenagers should be appraised of "age of consent" laws in their particular state,  as part of the public school curriculum, so that there is an awareness and an informed choice can be made.  It's likely this kid didn't even know he was in violation.

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 10:06:53 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I assume they didn't consult you when they drafted their legislation, but Georgia law determines the severity of criminal sexual intercourse with minors according to the age gap between the offender and the victim.  That's not the issue.

The problem isn't that Georgia law doesn't permit sex among teenagers, but that this boy fell through a legal loophole that made fellatio a felony for him where even vaginal intercourse would have been only a misdemeanor.  The Georgia legislature was aware of this problem, and has since changed the law, but they deliberately avoided doing so at a time that would have saved him.  All those fuckers should go to hell.  And the former district attorney keeps calling him a rapist even though he was acquitted of rape.  I'm amazed that asshole hasn't been sued for defamation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

It either has to be right or it has to be wrong for consenting adults to have sexual relations with people under the age of consent.  We can't make it less wrong or more wrong on a case by case basis, depending upon the severity of the age gap. 

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 10:15:48 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		The R&J law set the two year age gap for consensual sex between teenagers. The problem as I understand it was the R&J law was poorly written in such a way that intercourse was covered but other sex acts were not. Had the young man had actual vaginal intercourse with the girl it would have been a misdemenor. However the changed "new law" includes other sexual acts such as oral sex.


< Message edited by Archer -- 6/12/2007 10:16:32 PM >

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RE: Jailing a 17 year old for hormones? - 6/12/2007 10:19:52 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I assume they didn't consult you when they drafted their legislation, but Georgia law determines the severity of criminal sexual intercourse with minors according to the age gap between the offender and the victim. 


Im sure they didn't consult me.  I was merely stating my feeling on the issue. 

quote:

The problem isn't that Georgia law doesn't permit sex among teenagers, but that this boy fell through a legal loophole that made fellatio a felony for him where even vaginal intercourse would have been only a misdemeanor. 


Yes, I saw that on the article link but wasn't the fundamental problem the girl's age?   Wasn't the reason that either/or would have been a felony or a misdemeanor to begin with is because one party was under age?  



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